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  #681  
Old 04-16-2021, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I can appreciate that as I like to push boundaries myself. But I think you would know when it may not be appropriate to do so. I don't flaunt tradition when I go to another country. I wear veils in Islamic countries even though I think it is demeaning and outdated. I but I show respect for their beliefs and traditions by conforming.

Meghan married into a thousand year old institution that values tradition and conformity. The trick is to know what boundaries to push. I doubt most British people cared about the color of her nail polish. But refusing to wear a hat when she was with the Queen struck some people as insulting and arrogant. She was effectively signaling that this tradition was ridiculous and she was so important that she didn't care.

That was her choice, but she shouldn't have been surprised when she was criticized. The more often she flaunted tradition, the more criticism she got and it became cumulative until the media became hostile.

She was effectively fighting the British establishment over things like wearing a hat. I don't think it was worth it.
This is really, really well said. It's one thing to not conform to protocol or tradition when it's something like a nail polish color. Honestly, no one cares. We all have our own opinions about what looks classy and what doesn't but in the end, no one gives a fig about it. It's another thing entirely to flaunt every protocol and tradition just purely for the sake of saying you did. That's petulant, arrogant, and incredibly condescending. And this is the mistake that Meghan made. It would be rude to flaunt every tradition that any family has. When that family is the 1000 year old BRF, it's even worse because the whole nation and the world are watching and if you're thought to disrespect the much loved and valued Queen, you look like a spoiled child who believes she is much more important and transformative than she really is. Small things like nail polish colors, whatever. Bigger things like wedding traditions/protocols, dress codes when appearing with HM, christening traditions like announcing the names of the godparents, etc....those sorts of things just came across as refusing to do so just because she could and "no one could make her" and that's a really arrogant and disrespectful look.
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  #682  
Old 04-16-2021, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
This is really, really well said. It's one thing to not conform to protocol or tradition when it's something like a nail polish color. Honestly, no one cares. We all have our own opinions about what looks classy and what doesn't but in the end, no one gives a fig about it. It's another thing entirely to flaunt every protocol and tradition just purely for the sake of saying you did. That's petulant, arrogant, and incredibly condescending. And this is the mistake that Meghan made. It would be rude to flaunt every tradition that any family has. When that family is the 1000 year old BRF, it's even worse because the whole nation and the world are watching and if you're thought to disrespect the much loved and valued Queen, you look like a spoiled child who believes she is much more important and transformative than she really is. Small things like nail polish colors, whatever. Bigger things like wedding traditions/protocols, dress codes when appearing with HM, christening traditions like announcing the names of the godparents, etc....those sorts of things just came across as refusing to do so just because she could and "no one could make her" and that's a really arrogant and disrespectful look.
By the way, at Zara Tindall's wedding, her flower girls did not wear stockings either, and she was also appearing with HM.
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  #683  
Old 04-16-2021, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
This is really, really well said. It's one thing to not conform to protocol or tradition when it's something like a nail polish color. Honestly, no one cares. We all have our own opinions about what looks classy and what doesn't but in the end, no one gives a fig about it. It's another thing entirely to flaunt every protocol and tradition just purely for the sake of saying you did. That's petulant, arrogant, and incredibly condescending. And this is the mistake that Meghan made. It would be rude to flaunt every tradition that any family has. When that family is the 1000 year old BRF, it's even worse because the whole nation and the world are watching and if you're thought to disrespect the much loved and valued Queen, you look like a spoiled child who believes she is much more important and transformative than she really is. Small things like nail polish colors, whatever. Bigger things like wedding traditions/protocols, dress codes when appearing with HM, christening traditions like announcing the names of the godparents, etc....those sorts of things just came across as refusing to do so just because she could and "no one could make her" and that's a really arrogant and disrespectful look.
It was said Meghan wanted to revolutionize the Monarchy, bring it into the 21st century. Whether she said this or not, I don’t know, but I absolutely believe it to be true.....and, it wasn’t her place. It’s not her country, it’s not her institution - this isn’t like writing to Proctor and Gamble when she was a young girl in the hopes they’d change their commercials. The Monarchy has been around for 1000 years, and it’s built on tradition. She doesn’t have to like it, but if she was going to CHOOSE to marry into it, then she needed to accept it.

[.....]
  #684  
Old 04-16-2021, 12:03 PM
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[.....]

It is the Sussex thread and to be honest I am enjoying reading the posts, as it has become a pleasant conversation, with different slants which is always interesting.
There were times when emotion took over the threads,

In the early days of Meghan I was one of the posters who criticised her for failing to follow protocol with regards, nail polish, hats etc. not because I think a hat or the colour of nail varnish is so important but it was so important to Meghan that she did things her way. Our monarch of nearly 70 years, also from a different generation, was asking her to do things a certain way and she refused. That bothered me.
I am sure when it is time for Charles he will not have a problem with nail varnish or hats,
I still believe she thought she was Diana mark 2,
  #685  
Old 04-16-2021, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Fijiro View Post
By the way, at Zara Tindall's wedding, her flower girls did not wear stockings either, and she was also appearing with HM.
I understand the point but Zara Tindall is not a working royal or even an HRH. Meghan was officially representing the Queen - there is a difference.

Perhaps it would have been easier if Meghan had tried her adopted country's traditions before rejecting them.
  #686  
Old 04-16-2021, 12:34 PM
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When in Rome, do as the Romans do. This kind of fits when it comes to marrying into a royal family that is huge on protocol. When someone hires into a established corporation, they agree to do as the corporation lays out in its standard operation procedures. The monarchy and it's "Firm" is no different. You work for them and you follow their rules and guidelines. You don't try and step in as CEO and make CEO decisions in the first year you're hired in.

The only thing that the whole incident and rehashing of the "cry" scenario is that it tells me that Meghan can and does hold a grudge instead of letting it go. Someone please check the video again and see if that black and white dress she wore for interview had grudge hairs all over it? Grudges shed horribly, y'know.
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  #687  
Old 04-16-2021, 12:45 PM
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I think it's perfectly valid to question their decisions regarding, say, Archie's christening but to pretend that it's hugely disrespectful to the institution itself for Meghan to decide that her little bridesmaids shouldn't wear tights in a warm chapel or to wear the wrong () colour nail polish is just absurd.

If the monarchy's "protocol and tradition" is built around stockings and a special selection of nail polish colours, I'd say it's the monarchy that has a problem, not the people who have "the audacity" not to conform to such middle age-ish expectations.
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  #688  
Old 04-16-2021, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
I think it's perfectly valid to question their decisions regarding, say, Archie's christening but to pretend that it's hugely disrespectful to the institution itself for Meghan to decide that her little bridesmaids shouldn't wear tights in a warm chapel or to wear the wrong () colour nail polish is just absurd.

If the monarchy's "protocol and tradition" is built around stockings and a special selection of nail polish colours, I'd say it's the monarchy that has a problem, not the people who have "the audacity" not to conform to such middle age-ish expectations.

The whole issue of royal protocol is way overblown by the press. I suspect that the Queen couldn't care less about stockings and nail polish.
  #689  
Old 04-16-2021, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
I think it's perfectly valid to question their decisions regarding, say, Archie's christening but to pretend that it's hugely disrespectful to the institution itself for Meghan to decide that her little bridesmaids shouldn't wear tights in a warm chapel or to wear the wrong () colour nail polish is just absurd.

If the monarchy's "protocol and tradition" is built around stockings and a special selection of nail polish colours, I'd say it's the monarchy that has a problem, not the people who have "the audacity" not to conform to such middle age-ish expectations.
I saw it as being disrespectful to the queen, not the institution, you are right hats and nail varnish are not that important but obviously important enough to Meghan that she would disrespect the queens request.
  #690  
Old 04-16-2021, 12:59 PM
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Are we sure the Queen actually felt disrespected and that people don't just feel disrespected on her behalf?
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  #691  
Old 04-16-2021, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BritishRoyalist View Post
Sadly this is true. And while this may not be the right place to mention it but also everything they will find on their grandparents (and this case the same for William Kids as well) and all the stuff that been written and said. They will not only have Harry and Meghan interweb but also the whole "War of The wales" and The Diana Interview. They are gonna be in for a shock.


I imagine both William and Harry will have a long conversation with their kids someday when they are old enough to understand before they start growing the web.
I wrote it somewhere else before, that my impression is that W&K are doing a very good job with their children. They take advice from a psChologist , they employ a welltrained nanny, involve "normal" peiple with down to eath sense like the middletons ...
I believe f.e. showing off the cards the cambridge children made for diana on mother's day was not only sweet and for william like many posters here remarked, but also part of their plan to prepare their children for the upcoming truths and dark sides of Diana's " heritage" the media coverage for Diana aso. Charles is there and able to build a relationship but to deal with all the gossip about a dead grandma they never met is another thing. I think when the C's children are old enough to get all the facts&fiction anout Diana the fact that W&K nourished them to build a bond from the heart will help them through.

sorry, english is jot my mother tongue and sometimes makes if difficult to explain it straight &short.
  #692  
Old 04-16-2021, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
I saw it as being disrespectful to the queen, not the institution, you are right hats and nail varnish are not that important but obviously important enough to Meghan that she would disrespect the queens request.
Its much deeper than issues like hats or nail polish whihc I would say the queen doesn't worry much about.
  #693  
Old 04-16-2021, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
I think it's perfectly valid to question their decisions regarding, say, Archie's christening but to pretend that it's hugely disrespectful to the institution itself for Meghan to decide that her little bridesmaids shouldn't wear tights in a warm chapel or to wear the wrong () colour nail polish is just absurd.

If the monarchy's "protocol and tradition" is built around stockings and a special selection of nail polish colours, I'd say it's the monarchy that has a problem, not the people who have "the audacity" not to conform to such middle age-ish expectations.
When one works for Walmart, they're expected to wear the Walmart logo shirts. Same with a lot of places of employment. McDonalds is another. If you hire in and get your paycheck from them, you follow the rules they put in place and that includes wearing what they ask you wear "on the job".

If I'm not mistaken, Meghan's "working wardrobe" was provided for her through her father-in-law, Charles. Stands to reason when Meghan was "on the job", she'd follow the protocol as deemed by the "Firm". I'm not exactly sure if her own wedding would qualify in being "on the job" but how hard is it to get past something as trivial as the little bridesmaids wearing tights or not? The fact that the relatively mundane incident grew out of proportion and escalated into something that probably will still be talked about here 20 years from now is what boggles my mind.

If only our world had such little things things to worry about.
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  #694  
Old 04-16-2021, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
Are we sure the Queen actually felt disrespected and that people don't just feel disrespected on her behalf?
I should say that the queen feels very disrespected when her granddaughter in law goes on American TV and rubbishes her family
  #695  
Old 04-16-2021, 01:10 PM
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I just want to add that it could get a bit chilly in old churches even in Spring
  #696  
Old 04-16-2021, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I should say that the queen feels very disrespected when her granddaughter in law goes on American TV and rubbishes her family
But that wasn't the topic of the conversation... People are outraged on the Queen's behalf that Meghan didn't have her bridesmaids wear tights, that she wore the "wrong" colour nail polish, that she wore the "wrong" type of outfits.

I don't think it's unreasonable to then ask the question: Do we know if the Queen actually gave a hoot about these things or are people just making a fuss out of nothing because they're offended Meghan didn't do as they wanted her to?
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  #697  
Old 04-16-2021, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
But that wasn't the topic of the conversation... People are outraged on the Queen's behalf that Meghan didn't have her bridesmaids wear tights, that she wore the "wrong" colour nail polish, that she wore the "wrong" type of outfits.

I don't think it's unreasonable to then ask the question: Do we know if the Queen actually gave a hoot about these things or are people just making a fuss out of nothing because they're offended Meghan didn't do as they wanted her to?
Serious question because I haven't read them, but does Angela Kelley mention the nail polish issue in her books that have been written with the Queen's approval? I know it's been said that HM has worn the same shade for decades and has expectations that other members of the family will wear that shade, or maybe there's a handful of approved shades, while they're "on duty" or representing her. I honestly have no idea if that's true or if it's just one of those things we've accepted over the years as true.

I do believe I read somewhere that it's accepted practice that when accompanying HM on an engagement you take your style cues from her and if she wears a hat, you wear a hat. If she dresses a bit more casually (as she used to do more frequently several years ago), you dress a bit more casually, etc. so I think Meghan choosing not to wear a hat on that away day shortly after her wedding was rightly seen as a breach. It was said at the time that HM's aides or ladies in waiting had let Meghan know what HM would be wearing and apparently someone or several someone's tried to impress upon her that that meant she needed a hat, too, and she repeatedly rebuffed them. Honestly, to me, that seems like a much bigger and more distasteful eschewing of protocols than the silly nail polish thing.
  #698  
Old 04-16-2021, 01:45 PM
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The Duke & Duchess of Sussex & Family - General News April 2021 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
But that wasn't the topic of the conversation... People are outraged on the Queen's behalf that Meghan didn't have her bridesmaids wear tights, that she wore the "wrong" colour nail polish, that she wore the "wrong" type of outfits.

I don't think it's unreasonable to then ask the question: Do we know if the Queen actually gave a hoot about these things or are people just making a fuss out of nothing because they're offended Meghan didn't do as they wanted her to?


I agree. HM may not have cared about these things. Maybe, maybe not.

It’s not impossible to be an outsider, independent, and progressive and still be successful in the monarchy.

Exhibit A: Philip. I think it is generally agreed upon that he had those qualities. But- he figured out how to do it within the system. Of course- being born royal and having been exposed to how things worked his whole life, he certainly had an understanding of the system in general. He also understood it to be a commitment for life. Getting frustrated and walking out wasn’t an option.
  #699  
Old 04-16-2021, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Serious question because I haven't read them, but does Angela Kelley mention the nail polish issue in her books that have been written with the Queen's approval? I know it's been said that HM has worn the same shade for decades and has expectations that other members of the family will wear that shade, or maybe there's a handful of approved shades, while they're "on duty" or representing her. I honestly have no idea if that's true or if it's just one of those things we've accepted over the years as true.

I do believe I read somewhere that it's accepted practice that when accompanying HM on an engagement you take your style cues from her and if she wears a hat, you wear a hat. If she dresses a bit more casually (as she used to do more frequently several years ago), you dress a bit more casually, etc. so I think Meghan choosing not to wear a hat on that away day shortly after her wedding was rightly seen as a breach. It was said at the time that HM's aides or ladies in waiting had let Meghan know what HM would be wearing and apparently someone or several someone's tried to impress upon her that that meant she needed a hat, too, and she repeatedly rebuffed them. Honestly, to me, that seems like a much bigger and more distasteful eschewing of protocols than the silly nail polish thing.
I think that the details dont matter so much. What matters is that Meghan clearly didn't see her coming into the RF as her taking on a role where she intended to learn the job and commit to it.. and I think that from early on, she and Harry were saying that they were unhappy, and the queen and Charles were trying to find some way of accommodating them.
  #700  
Old 04-16-2021, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MaryVirginia View Post
On a completely shallow note, I would also like to say that Meghan should have listened to Kate about the stockings. Looking back at the pictures, no stockings with such beautiful dresses does not look right.
As a mom of two daughters, my objection to the "no tights" decision would have centered around modesty. Preschool age girls (and boys) love to engage in horseplay when left to their own devices, and modesty is not always at the forefront of their minds. Tights serve to preserve a modicum of decorum and modesty in these situations. You need look no further than this picture of Princess Charlotte after the wedding. Granted, nothing horrible in the picture, but a pair of tights would have meant a less anxious mom.

https://www.popsugar.com/celebrity/G...tures-44845647
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