The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 2: December 2020-March 2021

[poppy7]

Just for a note: Jason Knauf, the guy who sent email raising concern about the staff treatment is an American ("An American PR Guru" as per Telegraph headline when he joined the palace), not some "delicate" Briton. So personally I will refrain from making this into American vs British.

And in my limited knowledge, at least one of the staff who left Sussex team is a WOC so I will also refrain from making this into racial one.

He's is Canadian I believe. But yeah.

 

[ACO]

Natalie Campbell left the Royal Foundation to join Sussex Royal. She stayed on with them until they left the UK. I am not suggesting it is racial but I am just commenting on how that trope is very well known especially to WOC in high positions. And that *some* are wondering if those dynamics could be in play with Meghan and the staff.

Even Camilla Tominey of the Times admitted that she heard some of the staff looked down at her because of her being American and a woman with ideas. That might not be the case here but it certainly lays out the dynamics in play behind the scenes.

That doesn't excuse her actions if she did do it. Though I still don't know what exactly she is allegedly to have done.

 

[Princess Duchess]

At this point, why doesn’t The Times state exactly what was said by Meghan to the aides? They clearly have emails from Jason so I’m sure what was said exactly must have been mentioned.

Because right now it’s vague and if you’re going to accuse someone of bullying in this way, you should be stating what exactly happened and when.

 

[poppy7]

I don't find the timing suspicious, it is timed to coincide with the interview. I'm sure you are correct about the NDAs but to me, powerful people making accusations against those who can't respond is the very definition of bullying.

From what I have seen of Meghan, I find it very difficult to believe that she is a terrible person, but I don't think the employees are either. Another poster, Yukari made an excellent point in post 300 - there was probably a cultural clash. However, a person can't marry into the British royal family and expect to completely upend the institution. Like Yukari, I have also worked in other countries and with people from other cultures and it is much easier to adapt to their way of doing things.

Personally, I don't see the problem with sending an email at 3:00 a.m. - unless she expected an immediate answer (which I doubt). But if it was inappropriate, I believe the problem could have been solved if someone had politely explained that to Meghan and suggest using the delay send option.

Other issues were probably not easily resolved, such as wanting to change the way the royal family interacts with traditional media. In that matter, I think Harry and Meghan should follow the Queen's lead. After all, they are representing Queen and country. It should not have been the end of the world and they could have revisited the issue when Charles becomes King.

That said, if there was a flung teacup, that is inappropriate no matter where (or who) you are.

Well if you are a barrister 3am emauls are common but unless it is life and death you can easily schedule send.

I dont think she is terrible.

I dont think they are terrible.

I do think that there were things that went on that were out of line and I think she had no idea what she was doing in that family and I think she probably did act badly at times. And I do think she probably can be emotionally manipulative.

 

[evolvingdoors]

People have a different reasons for staying, even when faced with a toxic work environment. I did that twice in my life - once, a long while ago, because I knew if I leave that job I won't have money to pay for the apartment and the medical procedure that I needed. Second time, more recently, because I was in a higher position and I didn't want to leave the people I worked with and liked very much, to fend for themselves with no one from the management to stand up for them.

So sometimes just because it looks like one thing doesn't mean the accusations are not true. The email was written and send in October 2018, after a successful tour of Australia, when the Sussexes were working royals. Jason Knauf didn't get anything from noticing his co-workers were treated badly and going forward with this. I don't see a reason why he would fabricate the accusations with absolutely nothing to gain from this. The rumours were there, we were just ignoring and explaining them...

I can attest to this from personal experience too!
My current job former supervisor was pretty bad, people would come and leave, I stuck around cause the money was good and I had loans that needs paying. I kept my head down, did my job solidified my status as best as I could, tried to help the ones who were mistreated to the best of my ability mostly by telling them to run for the hills.

I had another job where I made the calculations and decided leaving was in my best interest, despite the position being my dream job right out of college, the way I was treated just wasn't worth it.

life situations change and so do our decisions.



As for the letter from her lawyer, I saw someone point it out, it is interesting not even a whitewashed apology was given. Even if you don't believe your words and actions attacked someone, the other person may have still been offended - again a cultural misunderstanding can happen. It seem hypocritical, that Meghan expects an apology from anyone who speaks badly about her, but won't extend the same courtesy.

I don't find the timing suspicious, it is timed to coincide with the interview. I'm sure you are correct about the NDAs but to me, powerful people making accusations against those who can't respond is the very definition of bullying.

From what I have seen of Meghan, I find it very difficult to believe that she is a terrible person, but I don't think the employees are either. Another poster, Yukari made an excellent point in post 300 - there was probably a cultural clash. However, a person can't marry into the British royal family and expect to completely upend the institution. Like Yukari, I have also worked in other countries and with people from other cultures and it is much more effective to adapt to their way of doing things.

Personally, I don't see the problem with sending an email at 3:00 a.m. - unless she expected an immediate answer (which I doubt). But if it was inappropriate, I believe the problem could have been solved if someone had politely explained that to Meghan and suggested using the delay send option.

Other issues were probably not easily resolved, such as wanting to change the way the royal family interacts with traditional media. In that matter, I think Harry and Meghan should follow the Queen's lead. After all, they are representing Queen and country. It should not have been the end of the world and they could have revisited the issue when Charles becomes King.

That said, if there was a flung teacup, that is inappropriate no matter where (or who) you are.

It's quite possible, that the persona that we see on camera and on social media is the exact opposite to her real life one.
It's not unheard of, many people can be seen 100% charming and caring in public, but be 100% abusive behind closed doors.
in fact, most abusers are like that, which is partially why it takes victims of abuse sometimes years if not decades to come forward, because they are afraid they won't be believed because of that public persona.
Add in if that person is super famous and powerful (such as a superior at work)

 

[camelot23ca]

Personally I think that all of the staff at Kensington Palace would have water tight NDA's. So they cannot talk - someone might have leaked the email to the Times, but that is suspicion in the timing so I wonder if the Times doesn't have something up its sleeve for Sunday.

At this point The Sussexes have alienated the British press, lost the support of the British public and, based on this latest story, left bad blood with at least some of the aides who dealt with them when they were working royals. Leaving aside the question of who bears the blame for things getting to this point, I would say this is an unenviable position for Meghan and Harry to be in because, with all those forces aligned against them, there are ways for damaging information to come to light even in the face of things like NDA's.

IMO Meghan and Harry have acted as if they're untouchable ever since they decided to leave working royal life and in the process have actually made themselves very vulnerable. They no longer have the insulation provided by the bureaucracy in place around the BRF.They're in the process of trying to piece together a lucrative professional life based on nothing more than their status as members of the BRF and their self proclaimed role as voices for good in the world. Plausible claims about things like bullying have badly damaged the careers of people more powerful and accomplished than The Sussexes. No one in public life is really untouchable anymore.

 

[poppy7]

Natalie Campbell left the Royal Foundation to join Sussex Royal. She stayed on with them until they left the UK. I am not suggesting it is racial but I am just commenting on how that trope is very well known especially to WOC in high positions. And that *some* are wondering if those dynamics could be in play with Meghan and the staff.

Even Camilla Tominey of the Times admitted that she heard some of the staff looked down at her because of her being American and a woman with ideas. That might not be the case here but it certainly lays out the dynamics in play behind the scenes.

That doesn't excuse her actions if she did do it. Though I still don't know what exactly she is allegedly to have done.

Easily believe that of older staff at BH etc but KP staff are all young Jason K is from the Americas and I doint they would think like that.

 

[Alison H]

It would be unrealistic for Meghan and Harry to think they could keep up the narrative of their so called mistreatment by everyone from the British press to palace aides - and to keep up that narrative in very high profile ways, like with Finding Freedom and now also very likely with the Oprah interview - without some people eventually deciding to push back. This has the potential to be an ugly situation. Meghan and Harry should tread carefully.

Exactly. I doubt that 99.99% of people could care less about Meghan's earrings, but this sort of thing is making the news because of this ongoing conflict. It's unpleasant and undignified. If Meghan and Harry would stop moaning, and move on with their lives, it would probably stop.

 

[Heavs]

I've just had a text from a friend who's sure that this means Harry and Meghan have dropped some true bomb shells in the Oprah interview and a lot of twitter seems to be of the same opinion. But I'm not so sure.

These aren't new rumours and the Times is not a tabloid or a BRF unquestioning mouth piece (and in general has been more pro Sussex than many British newspapers). But whilst the timing isn't a coincidence, once you start airing your dirty laundry in public and making accusations (whether they're "bombshells" or not) and prove you don't really want privacy then you give everyone else permission to unload what they they have as well.

It looks like its going to be a rough time for all sides.

 

[Pranter]

I think it likely both Sussexes will express the usual dissatisfaction with the press, perhaps with more specific offenses that were very concerning/damaging.

I think it is quite possible/likely there will be discussion of the conflict of how The Firm operates ...there have been blips in the past (before Meghan) about frustrations dealing with “the system”. Also I won’t be surprised if the constraints on what they could do are talked about. I do highly doubt there will be any discussion about interpersonal relationships with the members of BRF ..unless Harry says something along the lines of what we have already heard before.

Based on the preemptive things we are seeing from “sources” it makes me wonder just what they (The Firm) are afraid of being made public.


LaRae

 

[Princess Duchess]

I think it likely both Sussexes will express the usual dissatisfaction with the press, perhaps with more specific offenses that were very concerning/damaging.

I think it is quite possible/likely there will be discussion of the conflict of how The Firm operates ...there have been blips in the past (before Meghan) about frustrations dealing with “the system”. Also I won’t be surprised if the constraints on what they could do are talked about. I do highly doubt there will be any discussion about interpersonal relationships with the members of BRF ..unless Harry says something along the lines of what we have already heard before.

Based on the preemptive things we are seeing from “sources” it makes me wonder just what they (The Firm) are afraid of being made public.


LaRae

I agree. I think it’ll be the usual things they’ve said about the press but maybe they’ll name names this time instead of just keeping it general.

And Meghan will probably be polite towards the royals and at “worst”, neutral. Harry in his James Corden interview has nothing but praise for his grandparents and didn’t mention anyone else so perhaps that is the line they’ll take with regards to the royals.

I think people need to remember that what we know so far about this interview is 2 minutes or so of clips that were most likely to be designed to be as “explosive” as possible so people tune in. And in those clips, Meghan really didn’t say anything at all.

 

[Madame Verseau]

The press went after the Sussexes went they kept quiet so they decided to fight back, so go for them.

 

[soapstar]

Comments about Trump have been deleted. As have comments about Harry and Meghan’s former staff being lazy, or out to get them.

I know there are a lot of stories right now about what went on during Meghan’s time in the BRF, and with the upcoming Oprah interview there are sure to be more, but let’s try and stick to discussing what we know and has been reported about the situation, and not veer into fantasy, attacks, or rumors.

Per the forum rules: “Whenever possible, opinions should be based on factual information obtained from reputable sources and should be backed up by references to those sources.”

 

[carlota]

it isn't the first time that claims emerged of meghan being demanding - the story about the 5 am emails, the episode of kate being in tears during the prewedding fitting session, the many members of her staff leaving their jobs (Samantha Cohen, the nannies, the bodyguard who was with her in fiji, Melissa Touabti, Katrina McKeever)....

time will tell if it is true but it is highly suspicious these stories keep appearing in the press. the times isn't exactly tabloid press so it has some weight.

it is interesting that this is all bubbling now, just days before the oprah interview...

 

[evolvingdoors]

Hot! Buckingham Palace is set to properly investigate the allegations of bullying by Meghan.
I truly hope to eat my hat and that this was a total misunderstood situation, because no one deserves to be bullied by their superiors.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1367178932445982727

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I am with those who think that this is based on a massive cultural clash, less so on Meghan being a bully. I don't think the palace was ready for a demanding/bossy woman from Hollywood where you have to act up to get noticed.

 

[Mbruno]

Hot! Buckingham Palace is set to properly investigate the allegations of bullying by Meghan.
I truly hope to eat my hat and that this was a total misunderstood situation, because no one deserves to be bullied by their superiors.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1367178932445982727

I would be surprised if the Palace didn't open a full investigation, as that would look very bad on the Royal Household.

This has nothing to do with Meghan personally, but it is simply what any responsible employer should do. In Canada for example, the most recent Governor General had to resign due to allegations of bullying from her staff.

 

[Pranter]

Ummm but this was something that supposedly went on 2 or 3 years ago...why was it not investigated then? Ppl are now saying the person who filed the complaint did so without authorization of at least one “victim” who asked it be withdrawn....so none of this is clear, what a mess.

If Meghan was out of line then definately it should be addressed. Will be interesting to see if the investigation is leaked....and what the actual allegations consist of. I have seen nothing posted so far that seems to meet that claim.


LaRae

 

[Princess Duchess]

This makes no-one look good. If these accusations are true then the palace are also in the wrong of not taking these claims seriously and responding to complaints.

It’s also been 2+ years after said incidents. Why weren’t the complaints properly investigated in 2018. Again, no-one looks good.

 

[Heavs]

I am with those who think that this is based on a massive cultural clash, less so on Meghan being a bully. I don't think the palace was ready for a demanding/bossy woman from Hollywood where you have to act up to get noticed.

Can that not also be said of Meghan's complaints and accusations about not being supported by the monarchy? That it's all based on a big culture clash. She expected a Hollywood style PR game and for HM to come out swinging for her, that she didn't understand the delicate balance about what she can publicly support, when its just not the way they do things in general?

 

[poppy7]

Ummm but this was something that supposedly went on 2 or 3 years ago...why was it not investigated then? Ppl are now saying the person who filed the complaint did so without authorization of at least one “victim” who asked it be withdrawn....so none of this is clear, what a mess.

If Meghan was out of line then definately it should be addressed. Will be interesting to see if the investigation is leaked....and what the actual allegations consist of. I have seen nothing posted so far that seems to meet that claim.


LaRae

A source from the Sussex side said that: the person wanted it withdrawn.

However, he was within his rights to report something he was concerned about. It is our absolute right as an employee and every business protects this under it as a whistleblower.

He did not need anyone consent to make that allegation, complaint or whatever.

As for cultural clash. I would assume this was going on long after the initial: thisnis how we do things here, not like this etc.

 

[Hallo girl]

This is a general comment 're employer/ employee relations.
In any organisation if a member of staff, especially a senior member, has reason to believe or has been told that there are areas of concern especially involving younger or junior members then I would say it is there responsibility to ensure duty of care and to take some form of action to have the situation highlighted or investigated.It is then up to others to deal accordingly.
If an employee further down the line makes claims and it is established that senior staff were aware and did nothing, then that causes further issues.
Just a general comment in response to other views.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I would be surprised if the Palace didn't open a full investigation, as that would look very bad on the Royal Household.

This has nothing to do with Meghan personally, but it is simply what any responsible employer should do. In Canada for example, the most recent Governor General had to resign due to allegations of bullying from her staff.

I know nothing about the standard procedures, but would a professional conflict of interest not be found in any investigation by the Royal Household, given that the Palace is under the command of the grandmother-in-law of the accused and that the Palace itself is being accused of previously suppressing the complaint?

 

[poppy7]

This is a general comment 're employer/ employee relations.
In any organisation if a member of staff, especially a senior member, has reason to believe or has been told that there are areas of concern especially involving younger or junior members then I would say it is there responsibility to ensure duty of care and to take some form of action to have the situation highlighted or investigated.It is then up to others to deal accordingly.
If an employee further down the line makes claims and it is established that senior staff were aware and did nothing, then that causes further issues.
Just a general comment in response to other views.

Of course it is. It is also within the rights if an employee who is suspected of being a victim to also be interviewed and not say anything thereby meaning issue is dropped for the moment.

You cannot ask for it to be withdrawn once these things are in motion.

I dont know where that comes from but the papers are saying it is someone in the Sussex camp. Which tells me that no one is denying that this happened.

I know nothing about the standard procedures, but would a professional conflict of interest not be found in any investigation by the Royal Household, given that the Palace is under the command of the grandmother-in-law of the accused and that the Palace itself is being accused of previously suppressing the complaint?

No. Unfortunately I know a thing or two about this. The investigators can be internal so long as they have nothing to do with what happened. Either as witnesses, or been talked too. They need to be external to what happened but can work in the same place

 

[Somebody]

No. Unfortunately I know a thing or two about this. The investigators can be internal so long as they have nothing to do with what happened. Either as witnesses, or been talked too. They need to be external to what happened but can work in the same place

What do you mean by 'can be'. I am sure it is allowed but I don't think it is good practice that the HR department looks into this issue - in general and especially when, as Tatiana Maria pointed out, the accused is a family member of the boss. That is bound to create conflicts of interest (although some might argue that now they are out that it isn't that much of an issue but given that the family has an active interest in not further detoriating their relationship especially those still within the royal household might be hesitant to share their experiences and true opinion).

 

[RoyalNight]

Will M&H sue the Times?

 

[poppy7]

What do you mean by 'can be'. I am sure it is allowed but I don't think it is good practice that the HR department looks into this issue - in general and especially when, as Tatiana Maria pointed out, the accused is a family member of the boss. That is bound to create conflicts of interest (although some might argue that now they are out that it isn't that much of an issue but given that the family has an active interest in not further detoriating their relationship especially those still within the royal household might be hesitant to share their experiences and true opinion).

While HR would oversee this a principal investigator will need to be brought in or appointed to investigate this. I

 

[AC21091968]

Will M&H sue the Times?

I don't know, as some posters and including myself have pointed out that The Times is not a tabloid, but a reputable newspaper with pay-wall subscriptions. A lot of politicians contributed to their publication (write for a column or appearing on Times Radio). Unlike The Telegraph, The Times have tried to be politically balanced by hiring people with left-wing and right-wing despite being a centre-right publication. A lot of politicians (i.e. Michael Gove) have worked there as journalists/contributor.

Suing for defamation and mis-information is very different from suing for invasion of privacy.

Valentine Low, the writer of The Times article has reached out to a twitter user who mentioned about the rumoured incident at Admiralty House, Sydney, Australia. This was when Meghan allegedly behave like a diva, use foul language, late night demands, threw hot tea at staff after not liking it and swearing at Lady Cosgrove (wife of the then Governor General of Australia).

Ly Salvadore @Del_Salvador_AU
Replying to @valentinelow
Ask the former staff member at the Governer General's house in Australia how she felt after Murkle threw a hot cup of tea at her in a fit of rage.
Oh yeah, you can't. Buckingham Palace paid her GBP250 to stay silent in the aftermath of this deranged attack.
12:28 PM · Mar 3, 2021·Twitter for Android

valentinelow @valentinelow
Replying to @Del_Salvador_AU
Please follow me so I can DM you
4:37 PM · Mar 3, 2021·TweetDeck

Ly Salvadore @Del_Salvador_AU
Replying to @valentinelow
I'm following you
5:05 PM · Mar 3, 2021·Twitter for Android​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1366986013487357953

Image of the brief conversation: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvkA4P_XAAAkCUM?format=jpg&name=900x900

Images of the article (from Quora?) of the rumoured Admiralty House incident [Unsure about the reliability]: Picture 1 | Picture 2 | Picture 3 | Picture 4
Original source:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1367045063981867008

There is also a Tatler article mentioning an allegation from a photographer of Meghan behaving like a prima donna. This "incident" happened in her Suits days, but the story was leaked in 2020. Meghan did not sue Tatler, but I guess it's before she married into the Royal Family.

Again, the rumours of Meghan being a prima donna or diva have been floating around for quite a while, including the photographer's incident. It's like a tidal wave, where these stories did go undercover before they go bang in the face, before heading back down again.

I hope the investigation is independent with no conflict of interest, given that some Palace staff have worked for the government (as private secretary or civil servant) and The Queen's granddaughter-in-law is involved in the allegation.

 

[Mbruno]

I know nothing about the standard procedures, but would a professional conflict of interest not be found in any investigation by the Royal Household, given that the Palace is under the command of the grandmother-in-law of the accused and that the Palace itself is being accused of previously suppressing the complaint?

I don't know the standard procedure either, but I suppose the investigation can be conducted by an independent third party/ review committee.

 

[REAL COUNTESS]

I think they should get an outside firm or agency to do the investigation of that, like in Luxembourg. The Employee turnover at the Susssex's Household, was to many in a very short time, so there could be something true to the story. People who bully others think it is OK for them to do it and nobody would dare to question it, because of their status, until it sees the light of day. If guilty of it, admit it and show real remorse, not fake one. And being the victim wont wash anymore.