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  #701  
Old 03-05-2021, 10:17 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Much of the myth is tied in to Americans attitudes about work. It defines who they(we) are much more than in Europe.

An Italian friend described it this way... " Americans live to work. Italians work to live".

He said that taking a few hours off to lunch or nap during the day would not raise eyebrows in Southern Europe especially....but in the US it would be unheard of.

I much, MUCH prefer the European way.

But (many ?) Brits don't like to think of themselves as "Europeans" (see Brexit as a case in point). Furthermore, Italians are different from Germans, or Swedes, or Dutchmen. In fact, I can tell you from personal experience (my family is part Italian, part Portuguese and, in a very smaller part Spanish) that even southern Europeans are not equal to each other (for example, the Portuguese have a fairly different culture from the Italians and the Spaniards). And I am not even getting into Eastern Europeans like the Poles, the Czechs or the Hungarians.


Bottom line, I don't want to get into an argument which may turn political (because of Brexiteers on one side and EU-enthusiasts/Eurofederalists on the other), but "European" is actually an artificial concept that is sometimes used to describe 400 million+ very diverse people.


Finally, I also take the claim that "Americans live to work" with a grain of salt. As I see it, many Americans work longer hours than in some other countries or have multiple jobs because, quite frankly, live is tougher in the US than in other advanced economies due to the lack of a proper social network or welfare state. So many people have to work harder to have a decent living. I also think it is fair to say, compared to other countries I know, that the American workplace is more competitive/brutal and that Americans tend to be culturally more driven by ambition or a desire to be "successful"in life (also because, again, not being a social-democratic country, it is harder to be a "loser" or just mediocre in America).



On the other hand, however, there are things that strike me in America. I went to Graduate School in a STEM field and I can say that, over 50 % of the PhD students were definitely born overseas (mostly Indian and Chinese, but some Europeans, Russians, Middle-Easterns and other Asians too). And then there were American-born kids who were first generation Americans (again, many East Asians and Indians). There may be more traditional WASP Americans in more "lucrative fields" like Business or Law school, but it surprises me how many young people in those demographics shy way from "hard science" and engineering careers. Does that mean American students are "too lazy" for science or math?



Anyway, I won't go any further because I am obviously off topic. It is just that this attitude of assuming Meghan is somehow superior to the Palace staff because she is American and they are lazy Brits irritates me somewhat.
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  #702  
Old 03-05-2021, 10:26 AM
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I heard today on the TV from a former royal reporter that the bullying accusations refer to them and that Harry is involved too.
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  #703  
Old 03-05-2021, 10:46 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I agree but one also can't deny that some people will look down at people in higher position than them because they feel they are superior. Like women in a all male space.... or POC positions of power. We have seen incidents all last year where people accused people of things and weaponized parts of themselves only to be discovered it was false.

So yes lets have a true investigation to see what happened.

Certainly, there are such people and such incidents have recently come to light - thankfully! But I would like to add to that that Kensington Palace was not an all male space and that the employees who have accused Meghan of bullying are all women. So in this particular case, there is no indication of male subordinates not accepting a woman in power.

Knauf, who raised concerned, has been described by the papers as American and politically liberal. I'm just saying that because this situation tends to get framed as "men in grey suits" being unaccepting of Meghan as a woman & a woman of color. But the grey suits are at Buckingham Palace and at Kensington Palace, Meghan worked with a younger crowd, many of them women.
  #704  
Old 03-05-2021, 12:00 PM
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One of Meghan's friends posted in her defense on IG. Included in the post was a photo that contained a photo of little Archie. No sooner was the photo posted was it removed....but of course social media being social media had it circulated..

Here is little Archie

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMCvuYul...d=jkdzwf0iuruh
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  #705  
Old 03-05-2021, 12:08 PM
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While that friend will now be ghosted - what is that saying no good deed goes unpunished.
  #706  
Old 03-05-2021, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
But (many ?) Brits don't like to think of themselves as "Europeans" (see Brexit as a case in point). Furthermore, Italians are different from Germans, or Swedes, or Dutchmen. In fact, I can tell you from personal experience (my family is part Italian, part Portuguese and, in a very smaller part Spanish) that even southern Europeans are not equal to each other (for example, the Portuguese have a fairly different culture from the Italians and the Spaniards). And I am not even getting into Eastern Europeans like the Poles, the Czechs or the Hungarians.
Poland, Czechia and Hungary are located in Central Europe.
  #707  
Old 03-05-2021, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
Poland, Czechia and Hungary are located in Central Europe.

According to the UN Statistics Division, they are located in Eastern Europe.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter..._geoscheme.svg


The classification above does not include the category "Central Europe" though (only Western, Eastern, Northern and Southern). The CIA World Factbook distingushes between Western, Central and Eastern Europe as you did, but I guess this is a matter only of terminology that is not relevant to the point I was trying to make.
  #708  
Old 03-05-2021, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
While that friend will now be ghosted - what is that saying no good deed goes unpunished.
You forgot that "/s"
You know this is part of the PR to discredit the victims.

Some of her other famous friends are talking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
Poland, Czechia and Hungary are located in Central Europe.
At least Poland (and Czech republic) are most certainly not considered "central Europe" by any european.
Sincerely,
A european.
  #709  
Old 03-05-2021, 01:42 PM
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...I don't think it has anything to do with work ethic and more so cultural differences and the way certain people are, certain personalities will clash.
grrrr too the staff editing my posts
  #710  
Old 03-05-2021, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchesschicana View Post
...I don't think it has anything to do ith work ethic and more so cultural differences and the way certain people are, certain personalities will clash.
I'm sure that there were some culture clashes. But what's being alleged here goes beyond misunderstandings or "running a tight ship". There are accusations of creating almost PTSD among people work previously came from other high powered, very stressful environments who then accepted other jobs in even more high stress environments in other words people who aren't likely to run to complain about a genuine misunderstanding or if things get lost in translation. Now journalists from respected publications are going "yeah we heard about this at the time at it was awful".

All from two people who have made "be kind" and "are you okay?" their slogans and decrying bullying. Instead of calling people who are less powerful than them liars or stooges, maybe they should welcome an investigation that will clear them or make life in "The Institution" better for everyone.
  #711  
Old 03-05-2021, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
While that friend will now be ghosted - what is that saying no good deed goes unpunished.
I think that the friend probably posted with Harry and Meghan's permission. With how protective they are of Archie I find it very unlikely that someone who claims to be such a close friend would post a picture of him without their knowledge or approval. I actually wonder if it's some sort of "damage control" from the Sussex end- one of the most low-effort ways to boost your image is to "bring out the baby" in a sense. They've been known to have friends release things or leak info on their behalf, and it really wouldn't be a total shock to me if they'd asked her to include a picture of him.
  #712  
Old 03-05-2021, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
According to the UN Statistics Division, they are located in Eastern Europe.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter..._geoscheme.svg


The classification above does not include the category "Central Europe" though (only Western, Eastern, Northern and Southern). The CIA World Factbook distingushes between Western, Central and Eastern Europe as you did, but I guess this is a matter only of terminology that is not relevant to the point I was trying to make.
I guess the point here is that, on a Royalty forum, it is better for an American not to make sweeping statements about the different types of European! It's never going to go down well.
  #713  
Old 03-05-2021, 03:29 PM
ACO ACO is online now
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If there was an image of Archie, it has now been removed.
  #714  
Old 03-05-2021, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
If there was an image of Archie, it has now been removed.
It is still online of course, screenshots etc
  #715  
Old 03-05-2021, 03:36 PM
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The stories that at the start Harry was trying to mediate between his wife and the staff but soon started to completely take her side is an interesting take from the interview with the author of the piece in The Times. This suggests that somehow Harry at first understood that things weren't going well and that Meghan's way of going about things wasn't what was expected of her but it seems that wasn't that comfortable being the 'middleman' and instead of making sure his wife understood what could be reasonably expected of her, he fully followed her lead that she was unjustly treated by 'The Firm'.
  #716  
Old 03-05-2021, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
I heard today on the TV from a former royal reporter that the bullying accusations refer to them and that Harry is involved too.
The original Times article said that Harry had sought to stop any inquiry into reports of his wife's conduct. I wasn't aware that he was accused of bullying as well. Very disappointing if true.

Re geographical divisions of Europe. I know that the part of Europe discussed has been categorised differently at various times so everyone's right!. It's an area that older British history books sometimes refer to by the German term Mittleuropa. Central Europe is an area referenced in the Encyclopedia Britannica. I suspect the Austro-Hungarian Empire was often referred to as central Europe. Maybe Russia up to the Urals is the real eastern Europe?

Don't want to start a geography dispute on top of all the other drama.
  #717  
Old 03-05-2021, 03:46 PM
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Assuming that the Mail is capable of some accurate reportage...

It was said that the ‘grey men’ were well aware of the bullying that so traumatized some of the staffers, and that no action was taken to report it further, to the HR Dignity of Work department.

If the Sussex behavior so ‘destroyed’ some of their aides, then Senior Staff should have reported it. Why didn’t they? Maybe these older, more worldly employees were less likely to identify the ordinary conflicts of a busy office as anything other than the usual back and forth of daily work life. These aides were described as ‘traumatized’ and ‘broken’.

Maybe it didn’t look that way to those who should have taken it to a higher level.
I’m inclined to think this situation has been dramatized and exaggerated by some who waited years to bring it up.

Most of us have worked in situations where the “boss” upset us; but we let it go and kept on working.
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  #718  
Old 03-05-2021, 03:48 PM
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the link provided above works
  #719  
Old 03-05-2021, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
It was said that the ‘grey men’ were well aware of the bullying that so traumatized some of the staffers, and that no action was taken to report it further, to the HR Dignity of Work department.

If the Sussex behavior so ‘destroyed’ some of their aides, then Senior Staff should have reported it. Why didn’t they? Maybe these older, more worldly employees were less likely to identify the ordinary conflicts of a busy office as anything other than the usual back and forth of daily work life. These aides were described as ‘traumatized’ and ‘broken’.

Maybe it didn’t look that way to those who should have taken it to a higher level.
I’m inclined to think this situation has been dramatized and exaggerated by some who waited years to bring it up.

Most of us have worked in situations where the “boss” upset us; but we let it go and kept on working.
Maybe. Or maybe they were covering it up or downplaying it to protect Meghan and her image which would, in fact, be the total opposite of what she claims. Based on reporting I read yesterday (I don't remember where) the Palace inquiry may not be complete until 2022 but would be available in the Household Reports for 2022 so would become available for all to read. My guess would be that they knew that if an investigation was begun earlier it too would end up in the Household Report because that's how these things are done and, should Meghan and Harry have decided to stay or to come back, it could have looked incredibly bad for them (depending on the results or findings, obviously). It makes quite a lot of sense, actually, to say that they probably didn't push for an earlier investigation and downplayed what was happening in the hopes that with time, things would smooth over, staff could be transferred, discussions with Meghan and Harry regarding their behavior could be had, etc. and that they might be able to be retained since at that time they had not yet begun to launch their "we're leaving" grenades.
  #720  
Old 03-05-2021, 04:06 PM
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I'm not sure that the investigation into the bullying allegations is an investigation of Meghan and Harry. It is more likely an investigation into how these complaints were handled by senior staff. It's not like Meghan and Harry would have been fired - he is the grandson of the Queen. However, the palace may have guidelines on how to handle complaints about the family members and the issue is whether they were followed.

If it were true, and we don't know that it is, I imagine that if complaints about Harry and Meghan persisted and senior staff couldn't deal with it, the complaints would have been brought to Prince Charles's attention. If he decided not to intervene or the intervention was unsuccessful, there is not a lot that could have been done. I suspect they would be very careful about who would be assigned to work with Meghan and Harry (some people can withstand negative treatment) Some of this is the perils of working for a family owned company or working for a bad boss who owns the company. People have to make choices about their careers.
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