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  #541  
Old 03-03-2021, 07:47 PM
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So BP is finally going to move on these allegations, which have oh so conveniently been exposed only days before the Oprah interview.

And, let us remember, they are only allegations at this point. Neither Low nor anybody else has detailed what exactly these bullying claims consist of. And if the Palace is going to investigate it will presumably be an internal investigation with no independent arbiter.

Let me be clear about this. I am against any form of bullying, full stop. If the allegations are true and clear uncontrivertible evidence is brought forth that Meghan did actually bully staff rather than being a very demanding employer or that there was a culture clash, then I will accept that of course, as most will.

However, I would prefer to have this thing investigated fully by some form of Independent arbitrator, such as we have here in Aus. To have it investigated by one of the Palace grey suits, be it male or female, is, IMO very very unsatisfactory. That is exacerbated by the fact results are to be published in the Sovereign Grant Report at the end of the financial year together with all the accounts from the various Royal Households.

So, if the complaints are upheld, and printed there, then those supporting Meghan could say that the courtiers/grey suits have come up with a solution amenable to them. If the complaints are found to be groundless or even partially so then the Palace will be shown to have joined in the trashing of Meghan's reputation for spurious reasons.

Let the cards fall where they may at the end of this is my position and has been since the Low article, and the new announcement of an internal inquiry, but let's be clear about all this. IF these allegations prove to be true then senior courtiers/staff at BP will have been seen to have clung to the stupid mantra of yesteryear, viz 'never complain, never explain' while junior employees were left swinging in the wind. Not a good look for any organisation.

On a lighter note and on another tangent, will the accusatory tones of the tabloids towards the Sussexes of 'airing dirty linen' with the Oprah interview, (with regard to it happening while Prince Philip is very ill in hospital) now change to accusing Low of the same thing, stirring up a hornet's nest in the Palace while Philip is lying I'll in a hospital bed, etc etc?

Somehow I think not! That's only reserved for those rogue royals Harry and Meghan.

A journalist, even if he works for a respected broadsheet, can get away with such things, especially one who has sat on emails etc for 18 months from KP officials in order to wait for the right time to pull the pin. Just before the Oprah interview.

And in my view Low's excuse of 'waiting for the result of the Mail on Sunday legal case' before springing it is spectacularly weak. What I also think will happen as a result of the new controversy is that the Oprah interview will get a more massive audience than ever.
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  #542  
Old 03-03-2021, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lirienn View Post
Netflix is so against bullying yet we have proof - the email which is very serious! Like you can't just unseen it! I'm afraid it's their undoing!
There is no proof ..there is supposedly an email from a third party, not from either of the supposed victims, at least one of which did not agree with being involved in the claim. None of the supposed incidents that have been listed are bullying unless there is new info out I missed.

Let the investigation take place and see what is found.


LaRae
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  #543  
Old 03-03-2021, 08:05 PM
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"However, I would prefer to have this thing investigated fully by some form of Independent arbitrator, such as we have here in Aus. To have it investigated by one of the Palace grey suits, be it male or female, is, IMO very very unsatisfactory. That is exacerbated by the fact results are to be published in the Sovereign Grant Report at the end of the financial year together with all the accounts from the various Royal Households"

On the contrary, I think the Palace will try to cover it up again, as opposed to an independent investigator
  #544  
Old 03-03-2021, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
I've just seen the press preview on Sky News. Even though the Government today announced some very important measures regarding continuing financial support for businesses affected by the pandemic, all this business with Harry and Meghan is all over tomorrow's front pages, with the left-wing Daily Mirror proclaiming "Monarchy at War".


This is awful. It doesn't look good for anyone, especially during the biggest crisis since the Second World War and with Prince Philip lying ill in hospital, and it must be very, very upsetting for the Queen. It's all getting out of hand - which was inevitable, when Harry and Meghan decided to do the Oprah interview - and someone really needs to try to calm things down.
I totally agree with you. The news that should have been dominated is the Westminster Budget, because it will affect the British public the most in terms of taxation and government spending. Whilst Rishi Sunak (Chancellor of Exchequer) was on the front pages of news paper, but the allegation of Meghan bullying staff is still hot on the news from yesterday. The second most important news right now is the Alex Salmond/Nicola Sturgeon in Holyrood inquiry.

And both sides (Palace and Harry & Meghan) do not look good at all with this new revelation from The Times and upcoming allegation. The Palace does not look good by not handling the conflict and mental well-being of staff correctly. Meghan does not look good for having a high turnover rate of staff (which could be resulted from the allege bullying), which is rare, because most royal staff stay employed for more than a decade. The pejorative term of "men in grey suit" did nothing for the staff in order to protect Meghan, despite the Sussexes allegedly labelling them as "snipers".

I understand there is a high possibility of clashes when Meghan join the royal family (like any new person joining the royal family), but nothing seem to have resolved before Harry & Meghan decided to leave as senior working royals. There was also the split from the Royal Foundation to Sussex Royal in which Valentine Low mentioned that Meghan's allege bullying speeds up the separation process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evolvingdoors View Post
Many of us here pointed out that all this smoke was very heavy and that someone should check for the fire.


I do have to say, seeing the chaos on twitter.. I am so painfully disappointed by fellow left wingers, individuals who pride themselves on their investigation skills, who always bang on about standing up for the disenfranchised person in cases of workplace bullying and harassment, yet without question are taking Meghan's side (a very privileged person!) and are literally shaming and gaslighting the victims- probably scaring them away from talking (and maybe even scaring other victims who are being bullied from talking about their own abuse by others, especially if their abuser is a non white person)

Logically I understand both sides- I do, I get why her supports are supporting her (especially US ones), but at the same times: this is not new allegations, there have multiples, the palace literally protected her from them while not protecting the employees.

I'm just.. disappointed.
Judging on social media, most UK right-wingers just mentioning on the lines of "I'm getting the popcorn ready", not just what happen to Meghan (who they dislike), but also in the political landscape . This is ironic, because only few days ago, they were very upset on Prince Philip's health and angry that Harry & Meghan decided to do the Oprah interview (in which the timing is out of their control). Some of them even felt vindicated that the bullying allegation confirms that Meghan is nothing but troubles/destruction of the monarchy.
  #545  
Old 03-03-2021, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
And, let us remember, they are only allegations at this point. Neither Low nor anybody else has detailed what exactly these bullying claims consist of.
I agree but Harry and Meghan's complaints are also only allegations at this point. This is going to be a they said/they said situation. I doubt if anybody involved has objective proof one way or the other.

Quote:

On a lighter note and on another tangent, will the accusatory tones of the tabloids towards the Sussexes of 'airing dirty linen' with the Oprah interview, (with regard to it happening while Prince Philip is very ill in hospital) now change to accusing Low of the same thing, stirring up a hornet's nest in the Palace while Philip is lying I'll in a hospital bed, etc etc?
Harry is Philip's grandson. Low is not. That makes a lot of difference. Personally, I think that regardless of whether Philip rallies or passes on, Harry and Meghan should live their lives. They shouldn't live for other people. That said, I hope that Harry in particular is able to convey respect for the Queen's lifetime service and hopefully, the service of the rest of the family. I think he will regret it if the interview comes off as negative towards any family member.
  #546  
Old 03-03-2021, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
On a lighter note and on another tangent, will the accusatory tones of the tabloids towards the Sussexes of 'airing dirty linen' with the Oprah interview, (with regard to it happening while Prince Philip is very ill in hospital) now change to accusing Low of the same thing, stirring up a hornet's nest in the Palace while Philip is lying I'll in a hospital bed, etc etc?

Somehow I think not! That's only reserved for those rogue royals Harry and Meghan.
I don't think that's a smart comparison? On one hand you have an independent journalist working for a mostly respected paper and on the other a once beloved grandson. Holding them to the same standard is, quite frankly, a ridiculous idea? Low is in no way connected to the BRF or Prince Philip and Harry is his GRANDSON, the two situations are completely different.
  #547  
Old 03-03-2021, 08:47 PM
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And is Meghan to be allowed no right of reply to the allegations during this investigation, or do they wait until afterwards?

Or is this Palace Grey Suit (whoever it is) going to take each person's testimony on board and believe it, just because it comes from ex employees at KP...? Talk about being hung out to dry, Star Chamber-style, with no right of reply!

And is this Grey Suit, who will presumably be British and a longtime BP employee, supposed to be able to be differentiate between maybe the US way of operating and the Palace way, or will that person just take the Palace way on board?

That is why, in my view, there must be an independent arbiter who is absolutely neutral.
  #548  
Old 03-03-2021, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
And is Meghan to be allowed no right of reply to the allegations during this investigation, or do they wait until afterwards?
I don't know how they will conduct the investigation but Meghan certainly has the right to respond to public allegations of bullying- and the "men in grey suits" also have the right to respond to public allegations about silencing Meghan or any other negative claim made by the Meghan and Harry.

I disagree with those people who apparently believe that Harry and Meghan have the right to publicize their "truth" but no one can contradict them. If Harry and Meghan publicly criticize other people (either in person or through their friends), those people have the right to respond. One of my concerns about this is apparently, they will be referring to Samantha - who will then have the right to respond to any negative statements that Harry and Meghan make.

Once people start down this path, it is really hard to get off it. That is why the royal family generally doesn't respond to negative media.
  #549  
Old 03-03-2021, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fem View Post
I don't think that's a smart comparison? On one hand you have an independent journalist working for a mostly respected paper and on the other a once beloved grandson. Holding them to the same standard is, quite frankly, a ridiculous idea? Low is in no way connected to the BRF or Prince Philip and Harry is his GRANDSON, the two situations are completely different.
'Once beloved grandson' ? I would say that Harry is still and will remain so, a much loved grandson of HM and Prince Philip. He loves his grandparents and his father and brother and they love him back. Family feelings don't come into this. What is clear though is that Harry is also intensely and utterly loyal to Meghan the woman he loves, his wife and to his child.
  #550  
Old 03-03-2021, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
None it's basically a press realise. Dreadful. If we are going to call put toxic cultures then we need to call out all toxic cultures.

Many royal staff tend to stay around for a long time if not forever. It says a lot. The truth is people couldn't get away from the Sussexes fast enough. And actually in this polarised nonsense about them we never look at that. What actually is the reality of the situation.
This is not true though. William and Kate had their housekeeper turn over multiple times in the first three years of their marriage. The past two years, William and Kate had their entire senior staff turnover (including AFTER the Sussexes left). William is on his third private sec in three years. Kate on her second. A PA for the Cambridges was abruptly given her pink slip (according to sources) last year. So on. I am not claiming anything untoward. Just pointing out that staff leaving is not unusual in and of itself with the royals.

Samantha Cohen originally left after a mass exodus from BP because of feuds between Charles and BP staff. Reports about her being unhappy with the Sussexes are interesting since she stayed on well past the 6-month mark of her original retainer and took part in the Sussex exit negotiations.

The fact is that the majority of Meghan and Harry's staff stayed on with them. And most still work for them. To name a few, Heather, Clara, James, Natalie all work for Harry and Meghan in various capacities (James is one of their spokespeople, Heather leads Travelyst, Natalie consults for Archwell, Clara also works on Travelyst).

In fact, Valentine Low himself reported last year how sad staff was at the Sussexes stepping back but how the Sussexes also made sure all their staff had jobs lined up.

I am expecting more info to come this week and will continue to evolve my opinion as and if more info comes out including from Meghan herself during her interview and any additional color to the claims from staff. Serious claims like this deserve more detail and not just palace intrigue whispers to the media. I mean almost all of this story is repackaged old gossip so again not discounting it just want to see what more comes out, I suppose.

If you don't like the couple, this confirms things for you. If you like the couple, you are going to hold a different view. It is what it is.

At the end of the day, this whole situation is just sad. It just sucks all around.
  #551  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:02 PM
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From Dan Wootton’s tweet linked by AC21091968 #311:
Quote:
Knauf wrote in his email: “I am very concerned that the Duchess was able to bully two Pas out of the household in the past year. The treatment of X* was totally unacceptable.”

He added: “The Duchess seems intent on always having someone in her sights. She is bullying Y and seeking to undermine her confidence. We have had report after report from people who have witnessed unacceptable behaviour towards Y.”
According to the first Times article linked by Dalriada #293:
Quote:
It was made in October 2018 by Jason Knauf, the couple’s secretary at the time, seemingly in an effort to get Buckingham Palace to protect staff who he claimed were coming under pressure from the duchess. Prince Harry pleaded with Knauf not to pursue it, according to source.

(…)

Knauf sent an email to Simon Case, the Duke of Cambridge’s private secretary and now the cabinet secretary, after conversation with Samantha Carruthers, the head of HR, Case the forwarded it to Carruthers, who was based at Clarence House.

In his email Knauf said Carruthers “agreed with me on all counts that the situation was very serious.” He added: “I remain concerned that nothing will be done.”

Sources say they were concerned that nothing was done at the time to investigate the situation, and nothing done since to protect staff against the possibility of bullying by a member of the royal family. Aides also insist that behind the scenes they did more to welcome Meghan and help her to find a role than has publicly acknowledged.

(…)

The couple’s lawyers told The Times that this newspaper is “being used by Buckingham Palace to peddle a wholly false narrative” before the interview.

However, The Times understands that the palace establishment is highly concerned that the allegations have emerged.
Chris Ship’s article:
What the decision by royal sources to approach media over Meghan Markle bullying claims means

Quote:
The decision by royal sources to approach The Times suggests staff are still very bruised by their time at Kensington Palace.

In fact, I have been told this morning how those staff still suffer from what they refer to as the "trauma" of that time.

In fact, those staff members are referred to as "victims" by some of the sources.

Other staff, I am told, describe the "very painful" time at Kensington Palace and speak of how it was all rather "terrible".

None of that is, in itself, proof that bullying happened, but it does confirm that it was a very unhappy working environment.

Another source with knowledge of the feud between Princes William and Harry refers to the situation - even now - as "toxic".

But those close to the Duke and Duchess of Sussex say that the bullying complaint was submitted by Mr Knauf on behalf of two other employees without their knowledge.

Those same sources say the complaint was "rescinded" when those two staff found out about it and that is why the HR department at the Palace took the matter no further.

That version of events is emphatically denied by those who are close to the alleged victims.
Based on above, for the “accusation” itself, I didn’t agree with Scobie’ article (ACO #384) which kind of insinuating Knauf “attacking” Meghan because his association with Toubati or attempt of smear campaign against her (I’m talking about palace staff. It’s the media who might use it for that). My impression is Knauf saw how Meghan treated some staff and it made him realise that there’s no sufficient policy in place to protect palace staff against the possibility of bullying by a member of the royal family. He worked for Meghan, so the one he closely observed was Meghan’s. But remember about Charles’s toothpaste and toilet seat (or pillow?) story? Or Philip’s temper (there’s one story about him smacking a staff’s back head for driving to slow during TQ jubilee parade)? So his concern could be for general work condition in the palace, that a clearer (or better) policy to protect staff was needed. After all, this is not 16th century where courtiers (palace staff) had to grovel kissing royal’s feet and did whatever they wanted to gain their favour, but it’s 21st century where they work there signing contract with clear job description and they deserve respect as employee.

I also understand if the victim didn’t want to fill complain. Also in this case, Meghan possibly didn’t even realise that what she did was thought as bullying. I once had a manager who’s very “intrusive”; like standing behind his assistant and resting his chin on her shoulder (she’s clearly uncomfortable) or casually put his arm on female staff shoulder (there’s only 4 female staff including me vs 60 total in that office branch). During one visit, an HR reps saw that, called the four of us and asked if we wanted to fill sexual harassment complaint but we declined since even though it’d be anonymous, it’d still be obvious (there’s only 4 of us) and we didn’t really want to “shake” the ship (plus our works was already demanding enough without the addition involvement in some investigation). Not long after, I kind of casually brought this “intrusive” tendency to said person (by that time I kind of become his “right hand”) and he didn’t what he did as sexual harassment but just being friendly and treating his subordinate the same way regardless of gender (tbf, he also did the arm on shoulder to male staff, not sure about chin on shoulder though).

As for the timing, I’m more incline towards Valentine Low’s than Ship’s GMB. I think the timing is more to do with MoS lawsuit than Oprah interview. Don’t forget, these staff were willing to testify but no-trial in the end. The judgement was only two weeks ago and after The Times was approached, they also need time to cross-check, contact Sussex’ rep, and all that stuff. The Times is not some tabloid who will write a bombshell based on a tweet 5 minutes after that tweet was up.

As I said on the Sussexes’ Legal thread, I honestly thought it’s a bad idea for Meghan to drag palace staff (and other BRF member) into her lawsuit debacle. Her copyright lawsuit was strong enough without her airing her grievance in court. However for those staff, while their next employer might would just dismiss some tabloid rumour, but to have their name on a legal court document that way surely would damage their credential. These people need to work for living, and they doesn’t live in a mansion or palace, including Toubati whom more or less been thrown mud on her credential on Scobie’s article to save Meghan (not good for Meghan’s campaign on kindness and woman empowerment considering Scobie’s label as her media mouthpiece).

Over all, nobody will look good here, no matter what the outcome.
  #552  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I don't know how they will conduct the investigation but Meghan certainly has the right to respond to public allegations of bullying- and the "men in grey suits" also have the right to respond to public allegations about silencing Meghan or any other negative claim made by the Meghan and Harry.

I disagree with those people who apparently believe that Harry and Meghan have the right to publicize their "truth" but no one can contradict them. If Harry and Meghan publicly criticize other people (either in person or through their friends), those people have the right to respond. One of my concerns about this is apparently, they will be referring to Samantha - who will then have the right to respond to any negative statements that Harry and Meghan make.

Once people start down this path, it is really hard to get off it. That is why the royal family generally doesn't respond to negative media.

I wholeheartedly agree that each party has the right to respond to any negative statements however I do wonder if the Sussexes took that into consideration that these stories could eventually surface?
  #553  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:06 PM
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A few ppl who worked with Meghan pre-Harry have popped up on social media in strong support of Meghan. Some worked with her for years, one of them was a worker on the set of Suits.



LaRae
  #554  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
And is Meghan to be allowed no right of reply to the allegations during this investigation, or do they wait until afterwards?

Or is this Palace Grey Suit (whoever it is) going to take each person's testimony on board and believe it, just because it comes from ex employees at KP...? Talk about being hung out to dry, Star Chamber-style, with no right of reply!

And is this Grey Suit, who will presumably be British and a longtime BP employee, supposed to be able to be differentiate between maybe the US way of operating and the Palace way, or will that person just take the Palace way on board?

That is why, in my view, there must be an independent arbiter who is absolutely neutral.

Independent arbiter might be worse for the Sussexes in the long run

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
I wholeheartedly agree that each party has the right to respond to any negative statements however I do wonder if the Sussexes took that into consideration that these stories could eventually surface?
Unfortunately, they don't seem to think that far down the road most of the time
  #555  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TLLK View Post
I wholeheartedly agree that each party has the right to respond to any negative statements however I do wonder if the Sussexes took that into consideration that these stories could eventually surface?
I doubt it. I think Harry and Meghan truly believe that they are right and their version is the true version. We all tend to minimize our own failings and exaggerate the flaws of others when we are upset. But I think it is often wiser to keep disagreements private until you've had a chance to truly look the issues from the other point of view. I know that I have sometimes hurt others when I speak before I take the time to truly evaluate what happened.

I think they were upset by losing their patronages and probably should have taken a few months before scheduling a public interview or decline to speak about the royal family and the staff.
  #556  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
A few ppl who worked with Meghan pre-Harry have popped up on social media in strong support of Meghan. Some worked with her for years, one of them was a worker on the set of Suits.



LaRae
Worked with, not for. A relationship between co-workers is something entirely different than the one of employer and employee. Especially since quite a lot of people who spoke up with support to her, are not only her co-workers, but also friends.

Not to mention the suggestion, made in the article, that Meghan had an agenda since the very beginning and "wanted to be unwanted" so that it fit her narrative
Quote:
“The mistake they made was thinking she wanted to be happy. She wanted to be rejected because she was obsessed with that narrative from day one.”
Puts a lot of things in a different light - if true. It's even worse if she set off to target innocent royal employees to drive her point home, when the institution was trying to do complete opposite, protect and accept her.
  #557  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:32 PM
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People stating to be friends of Meghan went to US Weekly saying Meghan expected blowback from the Palace. As for the investigation Meghan better be able to formally answer the charges with a type of deposition if BP doesn't want the words "witch hunt" and "kangaroo court" tied to it through news reports. A lack of fairness in the proceedings would gain traction.
  #558  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Ester View Post
Unfortunately, they don't seem to think that far down the road most of the time
That what is striking when you read opinions of pro-Sussex people on social media. They truly believe that Meghan has the right to complain about anyone she wishes but if people complain about her, they’re liars and it’s BP out to get her— never mind that this makes the Palace look like they covered up bad behavior by a member of the family
  #559  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
Valentine Low did an interview on ITV about the bullying allegation, more specifically why he believes Meghan 'bullying' allegations were brought to him.

His statement on Meghan wanting to be a victim from the start, so she could convince Harry to get out and move back to the States is an interesting interpretation/observation from the staff that he talked to...
  #560  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by lirienn View Post
Netflix is so against bullying yet we have proof - the email which is very serious! Like you can't just unseen it! I'm afraid it's their undoing!
Netflix or Spotify won’t care until/if it comes to a point that they might get tainted by association. If that happens, all bets are off
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