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  #261  
Old 01-01-2021, 11:36 AM
HighGoalHighDreams's Avatar
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I am the one who made the original slap in the face comment. I can't speak for others who have agreed since, but several comments have since asked, "how is empowering mothers or highlighting the role of mothers" a slap in the face to fathers, or to Charles specifically?

I never said it was. The comment I made (something like "well Charles has just been slapped in the face") was the very first comment after the link to the new website was posted, and was referring to the entire website as a whole. I think the entire thing is a slap in the face to Charles, and I stand by that. I have explained why in my lengthy post since, now a couple pages back. Specifically going out of your way to state that compassion was modeled for you "by your mother and strangers" when you are the son of one of the world's foremost servant-leaders, known by millions for his compassion modeled through public service for some seven decades now, is absolutely a slap in the face.

I hope we can drop the narrative that anyone here has suggested that as a general matter, empowering the role of mothers is a slap in the face to fathers, because it was never said, it is not helpful to the conversation, and it is insulting to both mothers and fathers.
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  #262  
Old 01-01-2021, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Im puzzled as well, just as I'm puzzled what they are doing with this Netflix contract. Are they making money for themselves or to donate to charities? What ARE they doing to make money? I don't see what money is going to be raised from some vague "promotion of compassion" from mothers and other strangers on a website.. or podcast....And I'm not sure what they intend to do iwht the Netflix thing. Are they making movies? Commercially successful ones or more charity oriented or what? Honestly wouldnt it be more straightforward to set up an olnline business and sell toasters or something?
I imagine it will be something along the lines of what they've already been doing. The SA documentary, show casing some charities that are doing important work, talking to others about social/political causes, maybe part GOOP Lab aspirational lifestyle stuff ala the coffee Oprah was shilling for them.

If they aren't personally showcased in the way Michelle Obama's Becoming/SA doc/William's docs are then an interview or voiceover with them ala the podcast talking some nice word salad. With just enough of a touch to remind us they're really royalty and different from everyone else who does similar things on Netflix/Amazon etc.

They'll make the money from the Netflix deal itself but might also wear brands or use the products they've invested in on screen. Maybe they'll be a link to "ethical, socially responsible, woman lead brands" people can support to feel good about themselves which entirely co incidentally they have invested heavily in.

That's why I wonder if the commercial arm and the charity arm are going to get complicated and murky.
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  #263  
Old 01-01-2021, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
I think I'm just gonna repeat myself:
How do you get to the conclusion that using motherhood as an example of compassion negates the importance of fatherhood? At no point do they say they don't equate fatherhood with compassion. That's just not the example they've decided to use.

I'm guessing they chose motherhood as a representation for compassion because it holds a special meaning to both of them. I don't doubt Charles is immensely important to Harry but I also think it's only logical that someone who had their mother ripped away from them at 12 years old is gonna have deep feelings about motherhood specifically. I think it's very far-fetched to twist this into a sexist narrative.
Because we're looking at two people who are a mother and a father to the same child. The mother talks about how important motherhood is to her, and includes a picture of herself with her own mother. That's fine... a strange theme for the site, but fine. The logical corollary to that would be for her husband, the child's father, to talk about fatherhood. He doesn't. He just talks about being his mother's son (and not his father's). The focus is solely on mothers and motherhood. That would make sense (sort of) if Meghan was doing this by herself, but it's presented as a joint project done by both of them. To completely ignore Harry's half of the parenting equation, while over-emphasizing Meghan's half, is just ... strange. Add in the exclusion of Charles while Diana and Doria are both included, and it really looks like the point is to elevate motherhood above fatherhood. Mothers are wellsprings of love and compassion, but fathers and fatherhood aren't worth mentioning, even though Harry is one. If they'd done the opposite and emphasized Harry being both a son and a father, with no mention of either's mother or of Meghan being a mother, they'd be getting the same criticism, except a lot more of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
"Is he less compassionate than Meghan is towards their son?" I don't know, you tell me You're the one that argues their message indicates that fatherhood is somehow less important than motherhood, not me or the Sussexes.

And unless Meghan doesn't identify as a woman anymore, she isn't portrayed as the recipient as the text explicitly says "I am my mother's son". So following your logic, is it also offensive to Doria that it doesn't say "We are our mothers' children"?
I would assume not, though of course we don't know. For all we know, he spends all day playing video games and yells "Meghan! Make him shut up!" every time Archie starts crying. I doubt it, though - everything either of them has said or done publicly indicates that Harry is a very involved and caring father. As a woman, if my husband publicly praised himself to the high heavens for doing something that I did half the work for, while omitting any mention of my role, I'd be pretty annoyed. That works in reverse, too.

Meghan included a picture of herself as a child with her mother, so I'm counting that as portraying herself as both a daughter and a mother. The picture of Harry only reemphasizes that he's his mother's son, which he already said, and is probably the point of the whole thing. It's all about mothers and motherhood, and the extent of Harry's involvement is that he had a mother. Does he feel like fatherhood has made him more compassionate? Has he experienced compassion from his father? We don't know, because they only address the link between compassion and motherhood.
  #264  
Old 01-01-2021, 12:44 PM
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I would like to note that the Sussex's are not the first people to - lets say- place greater emphasis on Diana as Harry's mother and Meghan's relationship with her mom and Archie. It is PR that has been used through out Harry's working royal life from the palace, as many have pointed out. Similarly what other family connections of Meghan's can they use.

Archewell still hasn't been correctly defined yet - I wonder if it will ever be. Does it have it status as NPO yet- the original paperwork was thrown out. I do not think that everything has been easy sailing for them. The Spotify deal took way to long to be wrangled out - so there was lots of negotiations there. I would like to know that was the sticky points.
I recently saw on a different chat room - that someone mentioned that they wonder how long before the people start moving away from the Sussex's. Of all the people that Meghan has surrounded themselves with I kind of feel that the one that will see the problems and then possibility talk to those in their circle - aka Oprah, Serena, Taylor Perry, will be Michelle Obama. Essentially if Meghan and Harry world is essentially a House of Cards, it will start eroded,
  #265  
Old 01-01-2021, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighGoalHighDreams View Post
I am the one who made the original slap in the face comment. I can't speak for others who have agreed since, but several comments have since asked, "how is empowering mothers or highlighting the role of mothers" a slap in the face to fathers, or to Charles specifically?

I never said it was. The comment I made (something like "well Charles has just been slapped in the face") was the very first comment after the link to the new website was posted, and was referring to the entire website as a whole. I think the entire thing is a slap in the face to Charles, and I stand by that. I have explained why in my lengthy post since, now a couple pages back. Specifically going out of your way to state that compassion was modeled for you "by your mother and strangers" when you are the son of one of the world's foremost servant-leaders, known by millions for his compassion modeled through public service for some seven decades now, is absolutely a slap in the face.

I hope we can drop the narrative that anyone here has suggested that as a general matter, empowering the role of mothers is a slap in the face to fathers, because it was never said, it is not helpful to the conversation, and it is insulting to both mothers and fathers.
Yes, because I’ll also repeat what I said earlier - this was an awkward way of putting it, and it’s clear they deliberately went out of their way to avoid any reference to fathers.

Ugly American:

Quote:
ignore Harry's half of the parenting equation, while over-emphasizing Meghan's half, is just ... strange. Add in the exclusion of Charles while Diana and Doria are both included, and it really looks like the point is to elevate motherhood above fatherhood. Mothers are wellsprings of love and compassion, but fathers and fatherhood aren't worth mentioning, even though Harry is one. If they'd done the opposite and emphasized Harry being both a son and a father, with no mention of either's mother or of Meghan being a mother, they'd be getting the same criticism, except a lot more of it.

Agreed. I don’t think it’s helpful to people at all to pretend that mothers have the patent on compassion and that fathers are absent when it comes to influencing their children. Make no mistake, that is the not-so-subtle message they are sending. Ironically, Harry and Meghan have a son. Fathers are the first and primary influence in boys’ lives; they are the ones sons will look to as to what sort of man they want to be. H and M claim they are modern in outlook, yet they still hold to the traditional notion that mothers alone are nurturing, loving parents. Hmmm.
  #266  
Old 01-01-2021, 01:14 PM
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They are earning money now. I think he will do a lot for Veterans and once it is safe again to have large gatherings, he will be a key player for invictus. Harry was born famous, no matter what he won't fade away and disappear no matter what. And now he has a family who will be heard of to say the least as well.
  #267  
Old 01-01-2021, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post

If they aren't personally showcased in the way Michelle Obama's Becoming/SA doc/William's docs are then an interview or voiceover with them ala the podcast talking some nice word salad. With just enough of a touch to remind us they're really royalty and different from everyone else who does similar things on Netflix/Amazon etc.
I finally had a look at the website and really what going to attract people to this when there is SO much about kindness etc out there other than the royal angle? Literally so many podcasts and sites that other celebs are doing about the same topic. I am personally tired of it, I donít need reminders to be kind or compassionate.
  #268  
Old 01-01-2021, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Im puzzled as well, just as I'm puzzled what they are doing with this Netflix contract. Are they making money for themselves or to donate to charities? What ARE they doing to make money? I don't see what money is going to be raised from some vague "promotion of compassion" from mothers and other strangers on a website.. or podcast....And I'm not sure what they intend to do iwht the Netflix thing. Are they making movies? Commercially successful ones or more charity oriented or what? Honestly wouldnt it be more straightforward to set up an olnline business and sell toasters or something?

I am not too familiar with how charitable foundations work. For example, the not for profit WE Charity is related to the for profit WE Day events, and in Canada, the WE Charity was embroiled in a bit of a scandal when it was revealed that WE had paid members of the PM's family to speak at events and WE was awarded a government contract (conflict of interest, etc.). So it seems to be very important to keep for-profit and not-for-profit very separate. (Note: I am not suggesting any current issues with Archewell).



I assume the general idea of the Archewell Foundation is that they use their name/brand to raise funds, which are then used to fund/partner with projects. It seems that Archewell Audio and Archewell Productions are the "for-profit" arms.



I assume that they have good people who are giving them excellent advice on keeping it all separate. It will be really important to do so.



I like the website, but it is clearly in the early stages of development. The invitation to share stories of compassion is interesting--give us your information and we will use it however we want to. (Note: Most of us don't thoroughly read terms and conditions of any website, and many of us would be shocked if we did.)


They are trying to make a difference I remain cynical about the chances of major success for their venture, as it seems somewhat grandiose and naieve, but heaven knows, we need more compassion in the world. I hope they are able to make it work.
  #269  
Old 01-01-2021, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katymcwaity View Post
I finally had a look at the website and really what going to attract people to this when there is SO much about kindness etc out there other than the royal angle? Literally so many podcasts and sites that other celebs are doing about the same topic. I am personally tired of it, I donít need reminders to be kind or compassionate.
IMO their website will attract their fans, but few others...and maybe thatís enough for them. It had better be.
  #270  
Old 01-01-2021, 01:50 PM
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I remember when the interview came out with Harry and William about their mother a couple years or so ago. Some folks got the vapors about how they spoke about Diana not having support etc. ppl here talked about how it was awful for them to have said these things because it was going to make Charles and other members of the family look bad, how it was disrespectful to Charles etc.

It is what it is. Only the boys and their father know where they stand on the issue of Diana. The idea that if Harry does not specifically say (and dad was great) when he mentions his mother in a positive way, that if he doesn't mention Charles, this somehow is a deliberate negative towards Charles is ridiculous.


LaRae.
  #271  
Old 01-01-2021, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
IMO their website will attract their fans, but few others...and maybe thatís enough for them. It had better be.
But what is the point of it all? They need ot make a living.. I can't see how a website with stories of compassion is goign to do that unless they charge people for reading it....
  #272  
Old 01-01-2021, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
But what is the point of it all? They need ot make a living.. I can't see how a website with stories of compassion is goign to do that unless they charge people for reading it....
Why are you so focused on this? They are not poor to begin with. They have deals with Netflix, Spotify and who knows what other things we don't know about.

The website clearly has a section listing charitable groups they are highlighting... it says on the site non profit. Where did it say they are going to make a living from this site?


LaRae
  #273  
Old 01-01-2021, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
They are earning money now. I think he will do a lot for Veterans and once it is safe again to have large gatherings, he will be a key player for invictus. Harry was born famous, no matter what he won't fade away and disappear no matter what. And now he has a family who will be heard of to say the least as well.

Famous people actually can go under the radar if they so choose. For example, Rihanna lived in London for one full year without people noticing, and she's much more famous than Harry and Meghan.
  #274  
Old 01-01-2021, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Because they said that they were leaving ot make a professional income. Im puzzled, as to how they are going to do this....
Archewell is the name of an organisation that includes two companies & a foundation. I presume the hope is that people visiting the website will view all three sections. The two companies will generate their income.

As has been noted already having both money making & non profit entities using the same name is unusual.

It's quite deliberate & hugely cynical of course.
  #275  
Old 01-01-2021, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Archewell is the name of an organisation that includes two companies & a foundation. I presume the hope is that people visiting the website will visit all three sections. The two companies will generate their income.

As has been noted already having both money making & non profit entities using the same name is unusual.

It's quite deliberate & hugely cynical of course.
Yes and that is why they have accountants and lawyers to keep things separate. The IRS will handle it if there are irregularities.

Hugely cynical if you look at them or what they do in a negative way [...]


LaRae
  #276  
Old 01-01-2021, 04:06 PM
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Thread Closed for Moderator Review.
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  #277  
Old 01-02-2021, 07:07 AM
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-ceremony.html


Palace source said the Queen herself took the decision about the refusal to include Harry's wreath.

The story around at the time — and it was not publicly corrected because the royals felt strongly it was disrespectful to turn the nation's act of remembrance into a family row — was that Palace officials had made the decision without discussing it with his grandmother.
  #278  
Old 01-02-2021, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-ceremony.html


Palace source said the Queen herself took the decision about the refusal to include Harry's wreath.

The story around at the time ó and it was not publicly corrected because the royals felt strongly it was disrespectful to turn the nation's act of remembrance into a family row ó was that Palace officials had made the decision without discussing it with his grandmother.
And I think it was very much the correct decision!
  #279  
Old 01-02-2021, 08:51 AM
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I think it is best forgotten. Harry and Meg going to that cemetery was an awful riposte but perhaps it woudl have been better for him to arrange for his wreaht to be laid privately somehwere in the UK
  #280  
Old 01-02-2021, 08:53 AM
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I have to agree that it was the right decision to make no matter who made the decision.

[...]

If Harry, as a private citizen, was allowed to have a wreath places at the Cenotaph on his behalf, then it would stand to reason that *any* private citizen could request the same courtesy.
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