The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 1: September-December 2020

[AC21091968]

A great post.

The irony is that the main fault line in this country is to do with class & educational opportunity whatever your ethnicity. And inter generational disadvantage. The worst under performing demographic in British schools is white working class (blue collar) boys. The duke went to Eton & has inherited a huge fortune ultimately derived from the British state. The difference between a school like Eton & a comprehensive in most working class towns is stark.

Many here roll their eyes at such an individual going on & on.

There has been a BBC article on "white working class boys" making up the lowest percentage of university admission. https://www.bbc.com/news/education-54278727

There has also been some tweets by Matt Goodwin on "White Working Class boys" falling behind in school.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1310536598010900481

https://twitter.com/x/status/1311735249651597313

Of course, The Spectator has the heading of the front page "The lost boys: the white working class is being left behind", which was issued on 18th July 2020.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-lost-boys-the-white-working-class-is-being-left-behind

It's not the role of anyone in the royal family to make these sorts of comments.

A progressive royal duke & duchess is an oxymoron.

If they wanted to be really controversial they would campaign on class equality in Britain. But they won't do that because they benefit from social inequality. Their wealth & status derive from it.

I have heard someone said that if Harry and Meghan really care about "equality", they would also campaigned for "white working class boys", but then "it would not suit their agenda".

 

[Claire]

Systemic racism is a very real thing where no matter how high your station it will come for you. See the Obamas and other people of color who are born to or obtained wealth. I'm surprised the UK has a Black History Month. Given their experiences the Sussexes are the ones in the BRF to speak to it. Harry has a front row view in regards to how his wife and son is treated. This is not a joke.

I am a black woman in the UK. And yes you get racism - but my experience of it is not as bad as my experience of classism. And no - I cannot pass as a white or a dark skinned Italian or Middle Eastern woman.

I do not support Black History Month. I am a training historian. History is the history of all people and all nationalities. You start pulling black history out of the tapestry you loose the trend. Yes - you need to shine on spotlight on every community, but lets start of teaching people their history in general. History teaches empathy and compassion - unfortunately these days it is used out of context to provide ideological arguments to rants and tantrums of disempowerment.

 

[Betsypaige]

I get the sense that Harry has never built a real identity of his own. I think that a lot of his identity, whether it was intentional or not, was built around being Diana's son. When he was in the army of course his primary job and identity was as a soldier, and then when doing royal duties, he often did them in conjunction with William and Kate. W&K have started really building their royal identities now, but I feel like Harry never really got the chance to do that since he left so soon after becoming a full-time working royal. He of course has his passion projects (Sentebale, Invictus Games, veterans issues) and they will always be important to him but I think that other than that he seemed quite lost after leaving the army and where he fit in, and I think really globbed on to the issues that Meghan is passionate about.

I agree with this completely. It’s wonderful that Harry was so close to a William and then also Kate, but maybe he needed to have more time to be by himself, to figure out who he was and what he wanted to be and do. Also, it seems like he’s out of his league when trying to speak about certain subjects. - I done recall him ever expressing interest in these issues before Meghan.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

I agree with this completely. It’s wonderful that Harry was so close to a William and then also Kate, but maybe he needed to have more time to be by himself, to figure out who he was and what he wanted to be and do. Also, it seems like he’s out of his league when trying to speak about certain subjects. - I done recall him ever expressing interest in these issues before Meghan.

I remember reading somewhere that Harry stood up for a black colleague when he received racial abuse in the army. He has also done a lot of work in Africa with Sentebale, so he would be aware of problems black people face in daily life through this work.

 

[REAL COUNTESS]

[.....] He needs to wake up and smell the coffee. He is lead around by the nose, sad but true. I hope he don't fall of the edge when the house of cards comes crashing down. He is 36 years old, he should know, That with TITLE comes RESPONSIBILITY and OBLIGATION, he has this Title since birth, it is not new to him. He and Meghan like the perks but not the work. It seems every time there is something written or an interview it states Duke and Dss of Sussex. Maybe he or both should take a page from the Queens Handbook. DUTY FIRST SELF SECOND. I know and understand the fact about Racism, but it happen on both side of the isle. Maybe Harry should have stayed with the Military, he seemed to fit in there. In places visiting a Hospice he really was in his element, just like his mother, she was great with people in need and she tried to help them,as good as she could and her status allowed it. Harry is just drifting along. He really has changed but not for the better.

 

[AC21091968]

One of the comment that Harry made, which I think is very absurd and even foolish was that "world is created by white people for white people".

Mahyar Tousi, a classical liberal conservative youtuber has retweeted the Telegraph tweet and article.

Mahyar Tousi @MahyarTousi
Not sure he’s aware of other continents, especially Asia that gave us the first batch of modern civilisations and empires.
4:34 AM · Oct 2, 2020·Twitter for iPhone​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1311736320956542976

Even when I go back to the original Evening Standard interview to understand the context more carefully, I still find the comment weird, given that there is a dramatic rise of anti-black racism and discrimination towards African-Chinese residents in China since COVID-19. And Harry mentioned "the world that we know", so it's not just US and UK.

Harry, 36, who is sixth in line to the throne, described his own “awakening” to the lack of opportunities for people from the BAME communities since he met his bi-racial wife. The duke said: “Because I wasn’t aware of so many of the issues and so many of the problems within the UK and also globally as well. I thought I did but I didn’t.”

He added: “You know, when you go in to a shop with your children and you only see white dolls, do you even think: ‘That’s weird, there is not a black doll there?’ And I use that as just one example of where we as white people don’t always have the awareness of what it must be like for someone else of a different coloured skin, of a black skin, to be in the same situation as we are where the world that we know has been created by white people for white people.”

He added: “It is not about pointing the finger, it is not about blame. I will be the first person to say, again, this is about learning. And about how we can make it better. I think it is a really exciting time in British culture and British history, and in world culture. This is a real moment that we should be grasping and actually celebrating. Because no one else has managed to do this before us.”​

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/bhm-next-gen-trailblazers-harry-meghan-racism-a4560921.html

 

[Betsypaige]

I remember reading somewhere that Harry stood up for a black colleague when he received racial abuse in the army. He has also done a lot of work in Africa with Sentebale, so he would be aware of problems black people face in daily life through this work.

That's a good point. Maybe I should put it this way - I don't think the issue is so much that Harry is unaware of racial and other issues, but more that whatever work he's done has been through charities, behind the scenes (as opposed to being front and center, speaking out publicly). I don't think he's especially thoughtful or eloquent, and my impression is that his knowledge about issues is surface rather than deep, so he doesn't come off well when he tries to speak out on them.

 

[Ista]

A number of posts in an off topic discussion have been removed. If you wish to continue the discussion, I suggest that members PM each other to exchange information and thoughts, but the topic is outside the scope of this thread.

A few other posts have either been removed or edited since they contained insulting references. Any further comments along those line will be removed.

 

[Curryong]

On the contrary for nearly twenty years, since he was 19, Harry has spoken from the heart about the work he and Prince Seiko have tried to achieve in Lesotho with Sentebale. This has happened with documentaries, including one he helped make in his very early 20s and in Photo-ops.

 

[AC21091968]

Harry & Meghan's interview with the Evening Standards has made it to a discussion on BBC Politics Live on 1st October 2020. The panelists along with the host Jo Coburn were MPs Steve Baker (Conservative MP for Wycombe) and Layla Moran (Liberal Democrat MP for Oxford West and Abingdon), managing director of Iceland Foods Richard Walker and Dame Louise Casey.

After checking the twitter accounts of Steve Baker, Layla Moran and Richard Walker and BBC Politics (I don't think Dame Louise Casey has an account), only Steve Baker has released a video on his tweet. The rest of the panelist did not mention it after their appearances.

Steve Baker MP @SteveBakerHW
White privilege: my take...
2:37 AM · Oct 2, 2020·TweetDeck​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1311706891349905410

He also has another linked tweet with a hyperlink to his website (Quite a mouth full there)

Steve Baker MP @SteveBakerHW · 8h
Replying to @SteveBakerHW
"Black lives matter. I cannot think of anyone who disagrees. And while it would be easy to reply, “all lives matter”, that would be a disservice to the thousands of people who have legitimate grievances about racism."
2:55 AM · Oct 2, 2020·TweetDeck​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1311711331200970753

Link to the full Politics Live for this episode: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000n1g5

Unfortunately, I cannot watch it, because I'm not from the UK.

 

[Curryong]

It's not the role of anyone in the royal family to make these sorts of comments.

A progressive royal duke & duchess is an oxymoron.

If they wanted to be really controversial they would campaign on class equality in Britain. But they won't do that because they benefit from social inequality. Their wealth & status derive from it.

Would you say that about members of the BRF who speak out about the homeless or unemployed youth? Do those issues not come from social inequality? In fact I've seen comments in a certain tabloid after speeches about the Centrepoint charity that suggested that perhaps privileged royals should give up their huge apartments and palaces to those who have nowhere to sleep that night.

In fact all elites, and that includes all royals, speak from a wealthy background of status and social inequality from which they benefit. That doesn't stop them from being patrons of organisations that try desparately to help the situation, nor should it, but speaking out for causes when you are wealthy and privileged will inevitably bring accusations of hypocrisy. So what are people who are wealthy or Royal to do? Never speak about matters that may be close to their hearts and about which they feel strongly?

 

[Darius1]

Members of the Royal Family do a fantastic job highlighting the work of good causes through their patronage and speaking at key events. What they are careful not to do is make any comments in their speeches or pronouncements that could be considered to be controversial, or against government policy. They tend to prefer the spotlight to be on the causes not on them.

It is not the role of a member of the Royal Family (working or not - I think this is a huge red-herring - you're either royal or not) to make statements like the Sussexes have over the past two weeks. Can you imagine a member of the Royal Family stating publicly that they supported the striking miners in the 1970's/80's??? It's not their role and not their place to say so.

I feel a tremendous amount of pity for the future King William and Queen Catherine that they are going to have this shadow King and Queen of woke causes stalk their reign. If Harry had any sense, or any sense of duty he would realise the harm he is causing and how naive, sheltered and vacuous he sounds.

Can the family not come together and gather a sizeable sum to pay them off and ask them to go away and be quiet?

 

[KellyAtLast]

Members of the Royal Family do a fantastic job highlighting the work of good causes through their patronage and speaking at key events. What they are careful not to do is make any comments in their speeches or pronouncements that could be considered to be controversial, or against government policy. They tend to prefer the spotlight to be on the causes not on them.

It is not the role of a member of the Royal Family (working or not - I think this is a huge red-herring - you're either royal or not) to make statements like the Sussexes have over the past two weeks. Can you imagine a member of the Royal Family stating publicly that they supported the striking miners in the 1970's/80's??? It's not their role and not their place to say so.

I feel a tremendous amount of pity for the future King William and Queen Catherine that they are going to have this shadow King and Queen of woke causes stalk their reign. If Harry had any sense, or any sense of duty he would realise the harm he is causing and how naive, sheltered and vacuous he sounds.

Can the family not come together and gather a sizeable sum to pay them off and ask them to go away and be quiet?

The queen and Charles are too weak to crack the whip and put their foot down when it comes to Harry always has been weak and always will be. Hopefully king William will be a lot stronger than his father and granny and not let his personal relationship with relatives get in the way of protecting the monarchy.

 

[Darius1]

I think both William and Harry were handled with kid gloves by both The Queen and the P of W in the aftermath of Diana's death resulting in some of the spoiled and impetuous behaviour we have seen from them in the past 20 years. William seems to have settled into a life of duty whereas Harry looks to as if he wants to challenge the institution and the "grey men" Diana talked of.

I am sure that William might take a stronger stance with his brother's behaviour but sadly he has no leverage. He cannot cut off Harry's income, he cannot strip him of his titles. In this game Harry has the winning hand. I have no doubt that he and his wife would happily spill the beans on what goes on behind palace walls if they felt they needed to "fight back", and of course the got the right fee. It looks like lose, lose for William.

 

[KellyAtLast]

I think both William and Harry were handled with kid gloves by both The Queen and the P of W in the aftermath of Diana's death resulting in some of the spoiled and impetuous behaviour we have seen from them in the past 20 years. William seems to have settled into a life of duty whereas Harry looks to as if he wants to challenge the institution and the "grey men" Diana talked of.

I am sure that William might take a stronger stance with his brother's behaviour but sadly he has no leverage. He cannot cut off Harry's income, he cannot strip him of his titles. In this game Harry has the winning hand. I have no doubt that he and his wife would happily spill the beans on what goes on behind palace walls if they felt they needed to "fight back", and of course the got the right fee. It looks like lose, lose for William.

Not yet anyway..
the queen and Charles let Harry get away with everything.

 

[Darius1]

The optics would be very bad if The Queen or the P of W tried to intervene at this stage. They would be painted with all the negative attributes that could be thrown at them which would damage them too much. It really would appear that nothing can now rein them in, unless some change of heart on Harry's part which I fear will be a long time coming.

 

[victor1319]

Members of the Royal Family do a fantastic job highlighting the work of good causes through their patronage and speaking at key events.

... The Windsors are "charity royalty" not more, not less. "State actors and actresses"! Well paid!

And they are not apolitical! They are pro-multiculturalism and pro-eco-climate. And all this is Prince Harry too!!!

So, what is all the fuss about? That Prince Harry has gone and is doing his own, well paid "charity acting"? Well, why not? He founded a junior branch of this charity enterprise - not more, not less...

 

[KellyAtLast]

The optics would be very bad if The Queen or the P of W tried to intervene at this stage. They would be painted with all the negative attributes that could be thrown at them which would damage them too much. It really would appear that nothing can now rein them in, unless some change of heart on Harry's part which I fear will be a long time coming.

The only people that would paint them negatively are their fans. Heck they do that now.

 

[Osipi]

Not yet anyway..
the queen and Charles let Harry get away with everything.

Harry is an individual and not a puppet on a string to be pushed and pulled as others deem he should be pushed and pulled. As a child, he was the responsibility of his parents but once he reached adulthood, he had every right to determine what suits him and what doesn't. Harry always seemed to have marched to a different drummer. He's come to the point where he's made the decision to leave the "Father & Son" family business and strike out on his own with his own hopes and dreams for himself and his family. He has the right to do this. No one has the right to "rein him in" or "stifle" him.

No one should be in a position where someone else determines what they do or don't do with their lives. That's basic human freedom.

 

[AC21091968]

I personally think the timing of Harry & Meghan's interview with the Evening Standard is what driving the "controversy". As I posted earlier, the report on "white working class boys" falling behind in school makes some people questioned Harry & Meghan's "alleged" opinions on "white privilege", "male privilege" or "decolonise curriculum".

Some people believed that Harry and Meghan are somewhat "working against the government's interest" in terms of culture. There are some backbencher MPs retweeting criticism of Harry and Meghan, which includes the statistic by Matt Goodwin on the 9% of poorest white boys making into university. For example Ben Bradley MP retweeting this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1311737777290084352

https://twitter.com/x/status/1311735249651597313

Steve Baker on Politics Live also mentioned about "white privilege" when the topic of Harry and Meghan's interview comes up.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1311706891349905410

Although not directly aiming at Harry and Meghan, Jacob Rees-Mogg MP (Leader of the House of Commons and Lord President of the Council) have been tweeting and speaking out against organisations taking the focus of colonialism and slavery rather preserving history.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1311701453904506884

https://twitter.com/x/status/1309412179964301315

https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1298275770649976832

Oliver Dowden, Cultural Secretary has warned that Museums and Galleries could risk cut fundings if these organisations are "motivated by activism or politics", rather than "act impartially in line with your publicly-funded status".
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...black-lives-matter-oliver-dowden-b651318.html

I know some posters will disagree or even abhorred with those views held by these politicians, but I just want to point out that there are people pushing against identity politics, critical race theory or even BLM movement.

I also want to point out that Harry and Meghan seems to be unchallenged or even unaware by opposing opinions. For Meghan, it is possibly due to the way she was brought up in California, with mostly left-leaning views.

It would not surprised me if there are more politicians speaking against Harry and Meghan, more likely to be Conservative MPs. It's not surprising that according to a YouGov poll that 70% of Conservative voters think that Harry and Meghan should be stripped of their royal titles.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...edium=daily_questions&utm_campaign=question_3

 

[Claire]

I think both William and Harry were handled with kid gloves by both The Queen and the P of W in the aftermath of Diana's death resulting in some of the spoiled and impetuous behaviour we have seen from them in the past 20 years. William seems to have settled into a life of duty whereas Harry looks to as if he wants to challenge the institution and the "grey men" Diana talked of.

Yes - always. However the public and press themselves also let Harry and William get away with things that Charles, Andrew and Edward would have been crucified for. The press said it was boys been boys, or he is just a lad having a good time. The Harry the lad image was created by that.

 

[Darius1]

... The Windsors are "charity royalty" not more, not less. "State actors and actresses"! Well paid!

And they are not apolitical! They are pro-multiculturalism and pro-eco-climate. And all this is Prince Harry too!!!

So, what is all the fuss about? That Prince Harry has gone and is doing his own, well paid "charity acting"? Well, why not? He founded a junior branch of this charity enterprise - not more, not less...

There is something called a sense of duty that I think you fail to take into consideration. Not everybody is moved purely out of a desire to receive remuneration, Royal or not.

And the role of the Sovereign, and by extension their family and representatives is to be apolitical in the British system.

 

[Osipi]

I know some posters will disagree or even abhorred with those views held by these politicians, but I just want to point out that there are people pushing against identity politics, critical race theory or even BLM movement.

I also want to point out that Harry and Meghan seems to be unchallenged or even unaware by opposing opinions. For Meghan, it is possibly due to the way she was brought up in California, with mostly left-leaning views.

It would not surprised me if there are more politicians speaking against Harry and Meghan, more likely to be Conservative MPs. It's not surprising that according to a YouGov poll that 70% of Conservative voters think that Harry and Meghan should be stripped of their royal titles.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...edium=daily_questions&utm_campaign=question_3

The way I see it is that last March, it became officially known that Harry and Meghan no longer represented the Queen, the Firm or the monarchy in any shape or form from that time onward. Any views this couple expresses are their own and represent no one other than themselves. They've surely been taking advantage of that and its rocking the boat.

The British MPs, the British press and the British popular opinion also have the right to express their concerns and their thoughts and views but the reality is that it's going to get them nowhere at all. Harry and Meghan's view on issues have as much weight as any Brit expressing their views on things. The Sussexes actually are *allowed* to express themselves as they see fit at this time without restriction. It may not seem wise or of any benefit other than rocking that proverbial boat and causing uproars but that's the way things are now. ?

 

[KellyAtLast]

Then stop using royal titles. You can’t be introduced as duke this and that and talk about the things they are saying now. You can’t have it both ways.

 

[evolvingdoors]

So, during the interview Meghan mentioned she had no idea BHM existed in U.K., yet last year she apparently record letters from students (in addition to people asking on their social media) about it.
The below account is very level headed in her criticism and doesn’t support crazy conspiracy, she is also herself a biracial woman like Meghan.

Meghan: “I was in the U.K. for a few years until we moved back here, I didn’t realise that there was a Black History Month in Britain”

Also Meghan: Receives letter from school children last year as part of Black History Month and gets BP to send a reply

Which is it?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1312003231636172807

 

[Osipi]

Then stop using royal titles. You can’t be introduced as duke this and that and talk about the things they are saying now. You can’t have it both ways.

Although Harry is a "royal Duke", the title of "Duke" itself is not a royal title. Its a peerage of the UK title. The most that could be done was to prohibit Harry and Meghan from using their "HRH" which *is* a royal form of address.

 

[caethi]

Just because classism is an issue doesn’t mean that racism isn’t. Everyone should speak up and speak loudly about both issues. Harry and Meghan should and have the right to speak up. If they are going to speak, they should say something of substance. At this point, Harry does a very poor job of that, and despite her passion, Meghan isn’t really adding anything new to the conversation. For me, this means that their message creates a “so what” reaction. Of course it’s not up to me, but I can’t help but think that they should immerse themselves into one or two major philanthropic projects that are aligned with their views, work on them while maintaining a low personal profile, and then come back roaring once they have acquired a little bit of gravitas.

 

[KellyAtLast]

Just because classism is an issue doesn’t mean that racism isn’t. Everyone should speak up and speak loudly about both issues. Harry and Meghan should and have the right to speak up. If they are going to speak, they should say something of substance. At this point, Harry does a very poor job of that, and despite her passion, Meghan isn’t really adding anything new to the conversation. For me, this means that their message creates a “so what” reaction. Of course it’s not up to me, but I can’t help but think that they should immerse themselves into one or two major philanthropic projects that are aligned with their views, work on them while maintaining a low personal profile, and then come back roaring once they have acquired a little bit of gravitas.

They are doing their philanthropy the Hollywood way. Which is a lot of Air very little substance.

 

[AC21091968]

Harry and Meghan has also written a piece on the Evening Standard under Comments section, with the heading: The Duke and Duchess of Sussex: Our BHM Next Gen Trailblazers list will champion Black Britons' triumphs.

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/bhm-next-gen-trailblazers-harry-meghan-a4560916.html

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

Meghan lived in Britain for a matter of months. What position is she in to say how black or white Britons experience life?

Reading a column with Meghan as co-author that talks about the UK in terms of "we" is, frankly, tone deaf.