The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 1: September-December 2020

[QueenMathilde]

By the way, Arthur Edwards, photographer for the Sun newspaper, a tabloid, was allowed to lay a wreath at the ceremony, on behalf of readers of the newspaper, who had contributed to the Poppy Appeal.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13142986/remembrance-sunday-parades-smaller-covid/

The Sun editors, no friends of Harry and Meghan, must have been highly delighted that their representative was allowed to place a wreath but Prince Harry wasn't.

I don't see the problem with that - he was laying the wreath in the name of a group of people who donated. Harry wanted to lay a wreath in his own name according to the Times.



If Harry and Meghan wanted to do something it would have been better to wait for 11/11 and volunteer at the VFW or some other organization that caters to the military. Going to the cemetery dressed up with a professional photographer on a day no one celebrates in the US just seems odd. If they were going to do that as a private visit they should have left the photographer at home.

 

[Denville]

I don't see the problem with that - they were laying the wreath in the name of a group of people who donated.



If Harry and Meghan wanted to do something it would have been better to wait for 11/11 and volunteer at the VFW or some other organization that caters to the military. Going to the cemetery dressed up with a professional photographer on a day no one celebrates in the US just seems odd. If they were going to do that as a private visit they should have left the photographer at home.

The Poppy collections are very much down this year so people can't easily get hold of poppies or make donations in the way they used to, so if the Suns readers made a contribution I think its Ok that they should be able to have a wreath laid on behalf of them.
I agree, if Harry wants to show solidarity with the military and veterans he can certainly keep in touch with the UK 's vet organizations but he's in the US now. He's living there and he's not a rep member of the BRF any more with a role to play. he is in essence an American resident and if he is concerned about military people there are plenty of US organizations he could join and help out with and attend their services. And if he felt on Rem Sunday that he wanted to go somewhere to honour the British or Commonwealth war dead, he could certainly do so but without a photographer...

 

[Alisa]

Had they not gave a photographer or release the photos, they would have been accused of having done nothing. Plain and simple.

Critics and detractors would have had a field day. 'War veteran Prince Harry does nothing to observe Remembrance Sunday?" " Duke of Sussex- Invictus games founder has forgotten about Vets since moving to the US"....etc etc.

On this very forum the couple has been accused numerous times "preaching to people" from the luxurious comforts of their California mansion. Now the couple has actually gotten out and done something. They observed Remembrance Sunday in a most modified and dignified way- and yet they are criticized.

As was said by someone earlier. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

[Betsypaige]

As far as I’m concerned, Harry and Meghan have earned every bit of criticism over this PR stunt. However sincere he is about honoring the dead, I can not take his comments seriously when his agenda is to show the world how much he cares. He did it with that phone call to the Queen on her birthday....It’s ugly behavior. If H and M’s real priority was to pay tribute to war dead, they would have done so just as H and M Mountbatten-Windsor, not with a photographer trailing them in a photo shoot.

Piers Morgan was quick to criticise the pair.

He wrote on Twitter: “My god, they've even turned Remembrance Sunday into another self-publicity stunt. Have they no shame?”

Royal commentator Dan Wootton also took a swipe at Meghan and Harry over the visit.

He said in a Twitter post: “How lucky that a photographer happened to be here to capture this deeply personal moment.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/roya...-harry-remembrance-sunday-royal-news-cenotaph

I agree with Richard Palmer.

The rift between the palace and Harry and Meghan is likely to deepen again. Why the need to take a PR photographer and publicise your “private” act of remembrance?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325687950676471808

 

[AC21091968]

Had they not gave a photographer or release the photos, they would have been accused of having done nothing. Plain and simple.

Critics and detractors would have had a field day. 'War veteran Prince Harry does nothing to observe Remembrance Sunday?" " Duke of Sussex- Invictus games founder has forgotten about Vets since moving to the US"....etc etc.

On this very forum the couple has been accused numerous times "preaching to people" from the luxurious comforts of their California mansion. Now the couple has actually gotten out and done something. They observed Remembrance Sunday in a most modified and dignified way- and yet they are criticized.

As was said by someone earlier. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

It's simply not damned if they do and damned if they don't. Most posters on the forum do not object Harry and Meghan paying tribute to ex-serviceman on Remembrance Sunday. What they do object is the sheer number of photographs (7 in total) of Harry and Meghan in the Los Angeles National Cemetery. Had the photos been in similar format as these politicians, the response would have been different. Apologies for quoting myself on post #1040 with some edits.

I know that there are politicians who released photos of themselves paying tribute in Whitehall Cenotaph or local war memorial. However, these photos were not just the politicians themselves, but also veterans, volunteers, locals and the memorial itself.

Prime Minister:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325492713580597249

Leader of the Opposition:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325494691371118592

Speaker of the House of Commons:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325472794507960323

Andrew Bowie, Conservative MP for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (at Local memorial):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325064836707921923

Yvette Cooper, Labour MP for Normanton, Pontefract, Castleford & Knottingley (at Local memorial):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1325457783144243202

Leader of the House of Commons and Lord President of the Council (outside parliament, picture not on remembrance service): https://www.instagram.com/p/CHXkFiSJ1_A/​

Some of these photographs were probably not taken by photographers. George Spencer-Churchill, Marquess of Blandford (heir to the Duke of Marlborough) did not post photos of himself at all, but silhouettes of fallen soldiers and wreaths on the gardens of Blenheim Palace.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CHTM43YgFN3/

Some of the social media comments (that I have read) towards Arthur Edwards from the "Sussex Squads" have been ludicrous. Dare I say these comments were much worse than most posts in this forum. They actually compared Harry's plea in laying a wreath on personal behalf during the Remembrance service to Arthur Edwards laying a wreath behalf of The Sun readers at the end of the service (where members of the public were free to do so).

 

[Betsypaige]

It's simply not damned if they do and damned if they don't. Most posters on the forum do not object Harry and Meghan paying tribute to ex-serviceman on Remembrance Sunday. What they do object is the sheer number of photographs (7 in total) of Harry and Meghan in the Los Angeles National Cemetery. Had the photos been in similar format as these politicians, the response would have been different. Apologies for quoting myself on post #1040 with some edits.



Some of these photographs were probably not taken by photographers. George Spencer-Churchill, Marquess of Blandford (heir to the Duke of Marlborough) did not post photos of himself at all, but silhouettes of fallen soldiers and wreaths on the gardens of Blenheim Palace.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CHTM43YgFN3/

Some of the social media comments (that I have read) towards Arthur Edwards from the "Sussex Squads" have been ludicrous. Dare I say these comments were much worse than most posts in this forum. They actually compared Harry's plea in laying a wreath on personal behalf during the Remembrance service to Arthur Edwards laying a wreath behalf of The Sun readers at the end of the service (where members of the public were free to do so).

I object to any photos of H and M at the cemetery, not just the number. You can’t compare photos taken at official ceremonies to those taken at private moments. The former are always going to be published, the latter rarely.

I really resent Harry using the heroic, sacrificing war dead to further his agenda of proving he cares. I don’t see much about him anymore that is wholly genuine; the more I think about this, the angrier I get. This is so ridiculous ..H and M could have “personally recognize[d] the occasion without publicizing their doing so. Sheesh, they even have their spokesperson detailing exactly what they did (ooh, flowers picked from their own garden, lol) just to be sure everyone knows how caring they are.

”It was important to the Duke and Duchess to be able to personally recognize Remembrance in their own way, to pay tribute to those who have served and to those who gave their lives,” their spokesperson said in a statement, according to the U.K. Express.

“The couple laid flowers that the Duchess picked from their garden at the gravesites of two Commonwealth soldiers, one who had served in the Royal Australian Air Force and one from the Royal Canadian Artillery,” the spokesperson added

I also read this today.. I can’t say I’m surprised (Seward goes into more detail)...I will say that Roberta Fiorito, who I’ve never heard of, is off her rocker if she thinks H and M’s popularity in the US has “skyrocketed”.

Appearing as a guest on the Royally Obsessed podcast, Seward, a royal commentator and biographer who has written 18 books, explained: "We [Majesty] stopped having Harry and Meghan on the cover a while ago.

"It just wasn't selling, the magazine wasn't selling when they were on the cover," she said.

"HELLO! magazine actually told me the same thing. Obviously there are some beautiful pictures of them.

"I would like to have them on the cover but it just doesn't seem to work."

.....


Of which co-host Roberta Fiorito agreed, she said: "It is interesting because I feel like their popularity here skyrocketed. So it's interesting to see the perception over in the UK."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/meghan-markle-harry-arent-selling-22972607

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

When looking at these unfortunate pictures, one realizes again what they had in mind: the big entrance at the handpicked, big and important events, such like Remembrance Sunday, refresh their position and value and then off again, making the big bugs off their position and value until the next time.
I'm glad the BRF stand firm with their decision to be either in or out, and as a result we see pictures desperately trying to refresh a position or value that has gone since they decided to leave.

 

[Sandy345]

To be honest, the Daily Mail are not fans of the couple and have not been almost from the outset. As I see it anyway.

 

[TLLK]

It's simply not damned if they do and damned if they don't. Most posters on the forum do not object Harry and Meghan paying tribute to ex-serviceman on Remembrance Sunday. What they do object is the sheer number of photographs (7 in total) of Harry and Meghan in the Los Angeles National Cemetery. Had the photos been in similar format as these politicians, the response would have been different. Apologies for quoting myself on post #1040 with some edits.

Agreed. While I believe that the Sussexes decision to lay a wreath and a couple of bouquets was acceptable. However it is their decision to take and release several photographs of themselves that makes me uncomfortable. IMHO one or two photos would have been sufficient but releasing seven photos is excessive.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Fair point, but it is just the accompanying fashion / celebrity photographer and multiple pictures being released that people are commenting on

I think I understand why people think the photographs were self-serving but throughout his life, Harry has demonstrated a genuine appreciation of the sacrifices made by those who gave their lives in the service of their country. However, perhaps I missed a post, but do you think you would feel differently if he were living in Canada (a commonwealth country) or Wales or Scotland?

In my opinion, he is still a public figure and a member of the royal family. I don't see anything wrong with him sending a public signal of his continued commitment to honoring the memories of his nation's heroes - even if he doesn't live in a commonwealth country.

 

[muriel]

I think I understand why people think the photographs were self-serving but throughout his life, Harry has demonstrated a genuine appreciation of the sacrifices made by those who gave their lives in the service of their country. However, perhaps I missed a post, but do you think you would feel differently if he were living in Canada (a commonwealth country) or Wales or Scotland?

In my opinion, he is still a public figure and a member of the royal family. I don't see anything wrong with him sending a public signal of his continued commitment to honoring the memories of his nation's heroes - even if he doesn't live in a commonwealth country.

To me it does not matter where he lives. The point being discussed is not that Harry chose to mark the occasion, that is credible in itself. It is that he choose to have himself photographed doing so, and proactively had his office reach out and send the pictures to the media.

 

[Claire]

The whole thing was probably so Harry could get on the All-Star Stand up for Heroes TV special, which is now has.

 

[Osipi]

Agreed. While I believe that the Sussexes decision to lay a wreath and a couple of bouquets was acceptable. However it is their decision to take and release several photographs of themselves that makes me uncomfortable. IMHO one or two photos would have been sufficient but releasing seven photos is excessive.

I would have had a different opinion on Harry and Meghan's wreath laying trip to the LA cemetery if it had even a shred of humility to it and actually focused on the meaning of Remembrance Sunday to them. How hard would it have been to go, lay a wreath and then release a photograph of the wreath itself with Harry's message and note that Harry and Meghan did this the next day *after* the publicity from the UK Remembrance Sunday at the Cenotaph had passed?

To me, that would have shown the world they remembered and observed the day in their own way privately. A whole slew of photographs of the two of them all dressed up and posing created the impression it was all about them and not the meaning of Remembrance Sunday.

I just think they could have done it differently and toned down more.

 

[Alison H]

I don't think anyone has the slightest problem with Harry and Meghan marking Remembrance Sunday. As other people have said, a picture of the wreath would have been fine. But no-one posts social media photos of "Hey, this is me laying a wreath to mark Remembrance Sunday". Some celebs, and other people, post pictures of anything and everything - "Hey, this is me potty training my kid" springs to mind - but not of laying a wreath on Remembrance Sunday. It's just not appropriate, unless it's of a public ceremony.

 

[Durham]

I don't think anyone has the slightest problem with Harry and Meghan marking Remembrance Sunday. As other people have said, a picture of the wreath would have been fine. But no-one posts social media photos of "Hey, this is me laying a wreath to mark Remembrance Sunday". Some celebs, and other people, post pictures of anything and everything - "Hey, this is me potty training my kid" springs to mind - but not of laying a wreath on Remembrance Sunday. It's just not appropriate, unless it's of a public ceremony.

A point made by almost all the British posters on this forum. Remembrance Sunday is about as close as we get in Britain to a sacred national event when absolutely nothing else matters except sad & solemn reflection on unimaginable loss & sacrifice.

"We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields......

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields."

 

[Betsypaige]

I think I understand why people think the photographs were self-serving but throughout his life, Harry has demonstrated a genuine appreciation of the sacrifices made by those who gave their lives in the service of their country. However, perhaps I missed a post, but do you think you would feel differently if he were living in Canada (a commonwealth country) or Wales or Scotland?

In my opinion, he is still a public figure and a member of the royal family. I don't see anything wrong with him sending a public signal of his continued commitment to honoring the memories of his nation's heroes - even if he doesn't live in a commonwealth country.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but this makes me seriously question anything that they’ve done. I’m no longer going to preface my criticisms with “I know Harry is sincere, I know he genuinely cares” because that’s besides the point. A LOT of people care, but they don’t take selfies or have friends/family take photos at gravesites on such days, later on posting them on social media (or having them published) so that they can show everyone who follows them that they CARE. If H and M were primarily concerned with paying tribute to the war dead, they’d have done it on their own, without anyone knowing about it. Going back to my first comment, it explains why these two are always lecturing people on the hot button topic of the day....however much they may care, it’s about appearances for them.

 

[Betsypaige]

A point made by almost all the British posters on this forum. Remembrance Sunday is about as close as we get in Britain to a sacred national event when absolutely nothing else matters except sad & solemn reflection on unimaginable loss & sacrifice.

"We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields......

If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields."

You don’t have to be British to be disgusted with this behavior and to understand what Remembrance Day is about - every country has their own version. I remember our soon to be ex-President tweeting “Happy Memorial Day”, proving be didn’t understand (shock!!) what the day is about. Actually, I think Remembrance Sunday is a far more solemn occasion than Memorial Day; we seem to have made our National day of mourning into an excuse for a long holiday.

 

[angieuk]

Here lie the ruins of their reputation: By turning Remembrance Sunday into their own photo-op, blundering ghouls Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have reached a new low

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...Prince-Harry-Meghan-Markle-grave-mistake.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...Family-wreath-highlights-seen-expendable.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...-Markle-week-turned-Prince-Harrys-hottie.html

 

[Durham]

You don’t have to be British to be disgusted with this behavior and to understand what Remembrance Day is about - every country has their own version.

Yes I understand.

 

[ACO]

The Daily Mail attacking the Sussexes hardly is new. That is really a daily event.

 

[Durham]

The Daily Mail attacking the Sussexes hardly is new. That is really a daily event.

Well for once they do have a point - with the first article.

 

[Osipi]

Here lie the ruins of their reputation: By turning Remembrance Sunday into their own photo-op, blundering ghouls Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have reached a new low

I sincerely believe that the more things like this happen, the more the Sussexes are doing to underline the cold, hard fact that no matter how hard they try, they're not now and never will be on par with the Royal Family and the monarchy in the UK ever again. It almost seems as they're trying to hard to build up a brand that reeks British Royalty - The Sequel and its failing miserably.

It's actually almost on par with turning Harry and Meghan into BRF stans that want to be just like them, act like them and do the things that the BRF do but never seem to get it right. Isn't that actually what they actually walked away from in the first place? Isn't that why they did an "exit stage left" and moved to the US? To do things differently? So far, I don't see it working well for them.

No matter how hard one tries, being an imitation of the original will never surpass the value of the original.

 

[Denville]

I think I understand why people think the photographs were self-serving but throughout his life, Harry has demonstrated a genuine appreciation of the sacrifices made by those who gave their lives in the service of their country. However, perhaps I missed a post, but do you think you would feel differently if he were living in Canada (a commonwealth country) or Wales or Scotland?

In my opinion, he is still a public figure and a member of the royal family. I don't see anything wrong with him sending a public signal of his continued commitment to honoring the memories of his nation's heroes - even if he doesn't live in a commonwealth country.

But he isn't a member of the RF.. He's a member of the Queen's family but not a working royal any more by his choice.

 

[irish_royalist]

The Daily Mail attacking the Sussexes hardly is new. That is really a daily event.

I think the Daily Mail hit the nail on the head on this occasion, referring to the photographs as Harry and Meghan's 'cemetery photoshoot'

 

[Betsypaige]

Yes I understand.

I think the Daily Mail hit the nail on the head on this occasion, referring to the photographs as Harry and Meghan's 'cemetery photoshoot'

They did....I mean, that’s exactly what it was. This isn’t about the DM, as they are hardly the only media to criticize Harry and Meghan. This isn’t about the media at all, but about the Sussexes...

 

[RandyDrx]

Harry and his PR can say that he enjoys life in California as much as he wants. But it's quite clear that in the past few months when he reportedly told his friends 'how his life has been turned upside down' after moving to the US, and was devastated to give up his post as Captain General of The Royal Marines, as well as being saddened for not having his wreath laid at Cenotaph, that he really missed life in the UK.

 

[Denville]

Harry and his PR can say that he enjoys life in California as much as he wants. But it's quite clear that in the past few months when he reportedly told his friends 'how his life has been turned upside down' after moving to the US, and was devastated to give up his post as Captain General of The Royal Marines, as well as being saddened for not having his wreath laid at Cenotaph, that he really missed life in the UK.

And he can miss the UK All he wants but if he wants the marriage to work he's stuck in California... (Unless the money making goes awry and then they'll come back).

 

[ashelen]

I would like to know what his and hers birth chart say. Wasn't and Astrologist predicted long ago that one of Diana's children would divorce? I believe would be Harry is this is true. I am sure had not been easy for him in the US. It will be almost a year that defected the UK. Wonder what is his thoughts now after all this time.

 

[evolvingdoors]

I believe the "Harry's wreath" story is totally bogus and just meant to cause him further grief. Harry grew up in the BRF and being who he is I think he couldn't wait to be old enough to perform what he considers to be a Sacred Duty.

No one is going to convince me that Harry doesn't know who and what every single wreath is laid for. Harry's Wreath is just one more vicious canard intended to keep the perception of Harry's co-called arrogant entitlement to the forefront.

As to Harry and Meghan visiting the military cemetery on Remembrance Day? Well that's a no-brainer as he has marked Remembrance Day every year of his life one way or another. Leaving the UK doesn't change who he is and what he believes.

Well if this is bogus, why hasn't Harry send his lawyers like he did with the IG article?
It's now Tuesday evening where i'm at, so a full two days since this exclusive was posted, and still nothing from his lawyers.

And Harry may know that info (but may not have understood that now as a non working royal this is not something he can do), but I doubt Meghan and his now american PR know or gets it, and no doubt they would be fine using it to try and garner sympathy. The fact their US fans and mouthpieces are just as ignorant about this issue was probably a plus for them to stoke the flames.
Honestly they need to get someone who understands royal work to make them stop from doing this kind of stupid moves.
There was a much better and honorable way of doing this, the way they did it, was not it.

Harry and his PR can say that he enjoys life in California as much as he wants. But it's quite clear that in the past few months when he reportedly told his friends 'how his life has been turned upside down' after moving to the US, and was devastated to give up his post as Captain General of The Royal Marines, as well as being saddened for not having his wreath laid at Cenotaph, that he really missed life in the UK.

How does the saying goes: you don't know what you have until it's gone?

 

[Denville]

Meghan doesn't care that they are doing things "the wrong way", or that she's annoying the British public.. and possibly Harry doesn't care either. They are going to go their own way, and get as much publicity as they can.