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  #221  
Old 09-27-2020, 05:32 PM
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This is a really important point! In the end there is little even the Sovereign can do if one of the (senior) members of the family breaks rank. It all depends on them caring about the responsibility that was entrusted to their family.

Unfortunately, it seems that (breaking rank) is exactly the path Harry and Meghan are on. They are out for themselves and I see little commitment to 'uphold the values of the Queen' in everything they do. If it works for them, fine, if it doesn't, there is little holding them back from 'interpreting' them in a way that is favorable to their personal mission.
If Harry crosses a line the BRF deems unacceptable they sever any remaining connections he has to official British royal life - anything that’s left with The Commonwealth and the military, for example - and rule out any future appearances at things like Trooping the Colour. They plug any gaps they can and make it clear Harry and Meghan do not represent The Queen or the British government and that the possibility of doing so in the future has been taken away. They don’t comment on anything Harry does except to reiterate that Harry is no longer a working member of the royal family and his activities are private matters.

The only leverage Harry had with the BRF was the threat of leaving. He wasted that trump card with an impulsive, disorderly exit that angered the British public and left him in a weaker position than he would have been if he’d thought more strategically.
He won’t like it if the BRF is forced to cut him off completely? What’s he going to do about it? All the “threats” I’ve seen people mention on this thread - tell all interviews and the like - will only damage his reputation further and make the distinction between him and the “real” royal family crystal clear.
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  #222  
Old 09-27-2020, 06:09 PM
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For anyone interested on the article that Hugo Vickers has written. Here is the link to the Telegraph article (behind paywall): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-fa...box=1601141092

I only found the link because of this tweet
The Telegraph @Telegraph
"I fear the Duke of Sussex is out of his depth in California as his wife pursues an unknown agenda of her own"
3:33 AM · Sep 27, 2020·Echobox
https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status...09032149409792
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  #223  
Old 09-27-2020, 08:33 PM
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"The Sun" is reporting that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex have agreed to be followed and filmed for three months for one of the documentaries they intend to produce.

Meghan wants people to see the "real" her.

I want to see more of their mansion.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1543091...eality-series/
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  #224  
Old 09-27-2020, 08:38 PM
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"For a while the Sussexes were a golden, rather modern couple. At the Commonwealth Day service in March 2018, they were laughing, their eyes flashed about, they were completely in tune together. A year later at the same service, I remember thinking he looked like a man who had bitten off more than he could cope with.

Of course he should cut his losses and come home, before it is too late. The tide is somewhat turning against him, but there is still time."

—Hugo Vickers

There is no mention of "with or without Meghan and Archie". Vickers clearly disapproves of Meghan and especially the current Sussex activities, but I couldn't find suggestion of abandonment in the article.
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  #225  
Old 09-27-2020, 09:30 PM
Majesty
 
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Of course Mr Vickers means 'Harry, return alone' before it's too late!' The whole tenor of his article is that Harry is miserable and lost in California. If he had meant that Meghan should also return, with their son, then he would have written 'they should cut their losses' as 'the tide has turned against them' instead of just references to Harry alone.

There is no evidence at all that Harry is unhappy in California, miserable with his wife or with his new life. If there was then believe me, the tabloids would have leaped on it and gleefully reported quarrels, discord etc since they married. There has not been one report in the mainstream media, only on social media.

Harry has a mind of his own, contrary to what these writers and journalists constantly infer. If he wanted to return, then he and his family would have done so after their stay in Canada. It's obvious he does not.

There is no leverage the BRF possesses now everything is paid for, to persuade/order him to return. We don't know what the view of the family is.

However, it's clear that British writers/journalists and commenters are convinced that he is miserable, lost, under his wife's thumb in California, and believe that one day he will have a Eureka moment, repent and crawl back to Britain. Without his wife of course, a contemptible viewpoint, but presumably born out of frustration that this man can't be 'punished' any more in the way they want.
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  #226  
Old 09-27-2020, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Lion View Post
"The Sun" is reporting that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex have agreed to be followed and filmed for three months for one of the documentaries they intend to produce.

Meghan wants people to see the "real" her.

I want to see more of their mansion.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1543091...eality-series/
Oh but I thought cameras trigger Henry. This is hilarious people on twitter use to joke that Meghan and Harry next move will be reality tv and be the next kardashians. Everyone joked but if this is true my goodness Henry what a fall from Grace. I would be so embarrassed.
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  #227  
Old 09-27-2020, 09:48 PM
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From what I have read, and I really do not believe 99% of what the tabloids print, about the Sussexes or anything else, it will be concentrating on the charity work they intend to do, good causes and their investigations in that direction, and not go into their private lives much at all.
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  #228  
Old 09-27-2020, 09:55 PM
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Oh but I thought cameras trigger Henry. This is hilarious people on twitter use to joke that Meghan and Harry next move will be reality tv and be the next kardashians. Everyone joked but if this is true my goodness Henry what a fall from Grace. I would be so embarrassed.

I think it must be true KellyAtLast as editor of "Majesty Magazine" Ingrid Seward has commented on it...and not favourably.
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  #229  
Old 09-27-2020, 10:06 PM
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Me thinks the Mrs just want to show off the new McMansion and then lecture us on our carbon footprint and voting.
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  #230  
Old 09-27-2020, 10:16 PM
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I doubt that Ingrid Seward has heard or even read the sole source for this story from the Sun. She was asked to comment on it, and may well have leapt to the conclusion that it is a planned reality show.

I'll be waiting until this show is officially announced and some of the content explained before commenting on it.
We do not know if this tabloid report is truthful, at all accurate or anything else. I well remember all those breathless reports at various times of Doria sitting down with Oprah for a tell all interview.
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  #231  
Old 09-27-2020, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by KellyAtLast View Post
Me thinks the Mrs just want to show off the new McMansion and then lecture us on our carbon footprint and voting.

I'll take the lecture if I get to check out the house KellyAtLast!
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  #232  
Old 09-27-2020, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
"For a while the Sussexes were a golden, rather modern couple. At the Commonwealth Day service in March 2018, they were laughing, their eyes flashed about, they were completely in tune together. A year later at the same service, I remember thinking he looked like a man who had bitten off more than he could cope with.

Of course he should cut his losses and come home, before it is too late. The tide is somewhat turning against him, but there is still time."

—Hugo Vickers

There is no mention of "with or without Meghan and Archie". Vickers clearly disapproves of Meghan and especially the current Sussex activities, but I couldn't find suggestion of abandonment in the article.
I read the part of the article above as saying he should return alone if necessary. Otherwise it would make more sense to have written “they should cut their losses and return.”

I think whether Harry has bitten of more than he can chew with his decision to leave the UK is irrelevant now that he’s a father. Archie is living in California because of a decision made by both parents. If Archie is in California then Harry’s place is in California, too, and that’s true even if he does regret his choices in the future. It’s also true whether Harry and Meghan stay together or not. There is no coming home like Vickers suggests. Meghan would never agree to the family returning to the UK, so, if Harry wants to be present in his son’s life, the US is his home now.
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  #233  
Old 09-27-2020, 10:52 PM
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Going back to Harry and Meghan's video in Times 100, Andrew Rosindell (Conservative MP for Romford) has tweeted out, attached with an Express article. He is described as "Thatcherite", "Eurosceptic" and "flag fanatic and super patriot". I assumed he is a monarchist.
Andrew Rosindell MP @AndrewRosindell
A royal title is a privilege and it comes with responsibility! If you're not willing to accept the responsibility, you should also ditch the privilege!
12:18 PM · Sep 25, 2020 from South West, England·Twitter for iPhone
https://twitter.com/AndrewRosindell/...16352574918657

Unlike Ben Bradley's (Conservative MP for Mansfield) tweet, Mr. Rosindell seem to be quite serious on Harry and Meghan getting involved in US Presidential election. He did not mention removing their titles, but more so removing their "privilege" or luxury. I do wonder if that is "tax-payer funded" security (in UK and foreign countries), patrons of UK charities, Ambassadors for the Queen's Commonwealth trust or is it being included Trooping of the Colour (and in "The fold")? Or even worse, ostracisation from the Royal Family or removal from line of succession (which are both highly unlikely)? Harry and Meghan are technically not reliant on the Sovereign Grant and possibly private income from Duchy of Cornwall, so I did not include "cut-off financially".

I admit some of these actions (including removal of Duke of Sussex title) are very extreme, because it requires Parliament to pass an Act. For the line of succession, it's not just the UK Parliament, but other nation with the Queen as the head of state.

It does make me wonder which elected politicians will follow in publicly stating opinions on Harry and Meghan potential involvement in politics. I do think the next criticism of the couple will come from the right-wing fraction of the Conservative party or UKIP/Brexit party in general. I put publicly in bold, because they may share and hold similar view to Mr. Rosindell in private.
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  #234  
Old 09-27-2020, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
"For a while the Sussexes were a golden, rather modern couple. At the Commonwealth Day service in March 2018, they were laughing, their eyes flashed about, they were completely in tune together. A year later at the same service, I remember thinking he looked like a man who had bitten off more than he could cope with.

Of course he should cut his losses and come home, before it is too late. The tide is somewhat turning against him, but there is still time."

—Hugo Vickers

There is no mention of "with or without Meghan and Archie". Vickers clearly disapproves of Meghan and especially the current Sussex activities, but I couldn't find suggestion of abandonment in the article.
I also do wonder if Hugo Vickers meant Harry going back and forth between UK and America. By that I mean, he does royal duties (with possibly reduced amount) in the UK whilst Meghan and Archie lived in America. Harry would hence travel frequently across the Atlantic. This is assuming Meghan does not resume to be a working royal. Of course, due to COVID-19, this is highly unlikely.
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  #235  
Old 09-27-2020, 11:24 PM
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How does Mr Vickers writing 'he should cut his losses and return' otherwise 'it will be too late' include Meghan, or refer to Harry crossing the Atlantic for Royal engagements? It doesn't read that way to me at all. It reads in fact that he should abandon his wife, baby, home and new career and return to his old place in the Royal Family. I don't see how it can be seen in any other way. He's writing about one individual, Harry.
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  #236  
Old 09-27-2020, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
How does Mr Vickers writing 'he should cut his losses and return' otherwise 'it will be too late' include Meghan, or refer to Harry crossing the Atlantic for Royal engagements? It doesn't read that way to me at all. It reads in fact that he should abandon his wife, baby, home and new career and return to his old place in the Royal Family. I don't see how it can be seen in any other way. He's writing about one individual, Harry.
Look, I will admit that I have not read the entire article, so I may not have understand the full context or indeed Hugo Vickers' opinions. From just reading the extract:
"For a while the Sussexes were a golden, rather modern couple. At the Commonwealth Day service in March 2018, they were laughing, their eyes flashed about, they were completely in tune together. A year later at the same service, I remember thinking he looked like a man who had bitten off more than he could cope with.

Of course he should cut his losses and come home, before it is too late. The tide is somewhat turning against him, but there is still time."
I personally think (by just reading these sentences) Hugo Vickers does not suggest that Harry should abandon his family completely in America. My suggestion/interpretation of Harry going back and forth is only one out of other possibilities that I could think of. My other possibility is that Harry came back to the UK to discuss with the Queen or even Palace advisors on his future roles in the Royal Family. This could last for a few months before Harry could return to America to make his decision known to Meghan and Archie.

Again this is my interpretation.
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  #237  
Old 09-27-2020, 11:54 PM
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For those who would like to read Vickers' article to make up their own minds, the whole thing can be found here. Since he is a respected biographer and not a tabloid journalist, I was skeptical of claims he was advocating for Harry to abandon his wife and child, whatever people wish to infer.
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  #238  
Old 09-27-2020, 11:55 PM
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I certainly think that Harry will return to the UK, probably alone, at the end of the agreed year of review in March 2021. I doubt very very much that he will be discussing any official return to the Royal family at that time and I certainly don't believe those discussions between himself and his father and grandmother would take months.
We are all speculating here, but IMO Harry is settled in California for the foreseeable future, and will continue to be a non-working member of the Royal Family.
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  #239  
Old 09-28-2020, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
For those who would like to read Vickers' article to make up their own minds, the whole thing can be found here. Since he is a respected biographer and not a tabloid journalist, I was skeptical of claims he was advocating for Harry to abandon his wife and child, whatever people wish to infer.
He is a respected biographer. Nevertheless to write an article about Harry as if he was single, unattached and without dependents, including a wife Vickers obviously disapproves of, was clumsily written and capable of several interpretations, to say the least.

That article is one long criticism of Meghan and how she has supposedly 'changed' him, OUR HARRY, as if he had no will of his own. That interpretation is in fact no different to thousands of Twitter and Tumblr comments, whether Vickers is a 'respected biographer' or not.

And has this 'respected biographer' ever even met Harry or Meghan? Or are his impressions of Harry's supposed 'unhappiness' based on brief clips and photos? If they are, as I suspect, then again Vickers is no different to the many journalists who have followed the same narrative.

And that narrative is that Harry is under his wife's thumb, that somehow she has filled his eyes with stardust instead of duty.

Or/And that perhaps, just in case that line is disproved later, that it is (partly) Harry's fault and therefore he is a nasty ungrateful wretch who deserves to have his Dukedom taken away (going double for Meghan as Duchess) as well as every other punishment that can be thought of, just in case, God forbid, he actually is happy and contented in another country with his family.
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  #240  
Old 09-28-2020, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
For those who would like to read Vickers' article to make up their own minds, the whole thing can be found here. Since he is a respected biographer and not a tabloid journalist, I was skeptical of claims he was advocating for Harry to abandon his wife and child, whatever people wish to infer.
Thank you Prinsara for the link to the full Telegraph article.

I think Hugo Vickers raised some valid points mainly based on the Times 100 video. Some posters have pointed out that Harry appears to be uncomfortable when he was talking. The "seek for privacy" argument has been raised by other royal reporters, including Camilla Tominey. Angela Levin has also mentioned this, when she was on TalkRadio with Julia Hartley-Brewer, who is a republican/anti-monarchist
talkRADIO @talkRADIO
Julia: "He looks like a hostage in an appeal video. Please pay the ransom."
This week Harry and Meghan have come out against Donald Trump, and it has been revealed the couple's trip to Africa in 2019 cost the taxpayer nearly £246,000.
@JuliaHB1| @angelalevin1
7:13 PM · Sep 25, 2020·Twitter Media Studio - LiveCut
https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status...20628039041024

In terms of Harry and Meghan involving in US election. Hugo Vickers did make it clear that "The Royal family must be above party politics, even more so in a country that is not their own.". And I'm happy that he did make a distinction between "party politics" and activism, though these two topics have recently become more converged.
Aside from his duties, his own father has proven through his activism that it is perfectly possible to be a member of the Royal family and use your platform to stand for something and effect change.
After reading through his article, I think it's reasonable to suggest that Harry is in unfamiliar territory and sometimes overwhelmed (especially in Time 100 video). In terms of the last sentence "Of course he should cut his losses and come home, before it is too late. The tide is somewhat turning against him, but there is still time.", I don't think Mr. Victor suggested (nor has the undertone of) Harry permanently abandoning Meghan and Archie in America. I think it's more like Harry coming back to the UK to discuss his future, which could happen like the Sandringham summit, after a year review. Or if Harry really dislike his current lifestyle in America, he could be returning to the UK to seek advice from the Royal Family or Palace staff, before making his decision and fly back to America to let Meghan and Archie know. Agains these are all interpretation and speculation coming from myself.

I also don't think that Hugo Vickers' reputation is tarnished, given that his article is under the "comment" and offering his opinions (which again, I think are valid and well backed-up).
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