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  #201  
Old 09-26-2020, 10:12 PM
Osipi's Avatar
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Personally, I don't think that either Harry or Meghan stopped to even think things through and realize that there may be repercussions from making the statements that they have "dipping their little toes" into US politics.

The *did* promise to uphold the "values of the Queen" and the Queen values her family being apolitical. Even without being "working royals", with Trump's remarks, it clearly shows that members of the Queen's family have caused reasons for friction in the future should Trump win the presidency again in November.

This couple needs to sit down and weigh consequences of any actions they may take before jumping on a bandwagon and opening their mouths.
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  #202  
Old 09-26-2020, 10:21 PM
Majesty
 
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There's no indication that Harry wants to return to full time duties in the UK. He appears to be settled in California, thanks.

What is more, we don't know exactly what the aides said to the Sunday Times before the Fail put its own special twist on the situation (after all they are being sued by Meghan.) And we heard how in the Trump press conference how the Daily Mail correspondent lied to the President, stating that Meghan had endorsed Biden, when she hadn't. That's the sort of viability that newspaper has!

Nor do we know whether the aides at BP, not exactly supporters and friends of the Sussexes, are reflecting the views of the Queen, Harry's grandmother, or his father, the Prince of Wales, about the remarks on the Time show.

And if, by some chance, they ARE reflecting anger from the two royals most deeply concerned, what exactly are they going to do to 'punish' Harry and Meghan?

* Cut them off from Charles's money? That's already irrelevant. He's no longer funding them. While Charles was funding the couple they had a hold over them. That is now gone.

* Insist that they pay back the renovations money for Frogmore Cottage? Already been paid. Pull the Cottage away after they've paid for the renovations? Extremely doubtful.

* Pull Harry's dukedom? Then he will simply revert back to being Prince Harry, a styling by which he has been known all his life. And Meghan will become Princess Henry. Those stylings are better known in the US than Duke and Duchess anyway. And the Press may well ask why another Duke in the Royal Family retains his title.

*Uncouple Harry completely from the Royal Family with an announcement that he is to no longer to be regarded as a son of the POW and grandson of the Queen? Extremely unlikely, and the same questions could be asked of another Duke as to why that hasn't been done.

* Send a Royal envoy over to Montecito to blast both of them personally? Extremely unlikely and what if the envoy was refused entry to their home? Embarrassing? And zoom calls have limited impact.

What is more if Meghan and Harry feel that they did not violate the agreement and that the Palace is holding them to account unfairly, then that opens up the possibility of the couple doing a tell all TV interview in the US about their past as royals, for mega bucks, and probably a book or two with photos as well. These would sell all over the world.

If there is enough resentment and anger there, then Harry may very well tell all he knows about his parents' marriage for instance and the way his mother was treated, as well as what has gone on before and since he married.

That's over thirty years of recollections, good and more importantly, bad. Meghan can add her impressions of officials and the RF too.

It would finish his relationships within the family for good no doubt about it , but Harry might well react in that way if he feels he and his wife are being unfairly treated as private persons in another country. Harry may feel that game is worth the candle. And unlike Diana's interview with Martin Bashir, that won't be sorted with a divorce and NDA.
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  #203  
Old 09-26-2020, 10:26 PM
Eskimo's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Personally, I don't think that either Harry or Meghan stopped to even think things through and realize that there may be repercussions from making the statements that they have "dipping their little toes" into US politics.

The *did* promise to uphold the "values of the Queen" and the Queen values her family being apolitical. Even without being "working royals", with Trump's remarks, it clearly shows that members of the Queen's family have caused reasons for friction in the future should Trump win the presidency again in November.

This couple needs to sit down and weigh consequences of any actions they may take before jumping on a bandwagon and opening their mouths.
IMO, they understand the consequences of their actions better than you and I. They have chosen to go down the ďwokeĒ celebrities path and donít really care how it reflects on the BRF and the UK.
  #204  
Old 09-27-2020, 03:00 AM
Sun Lion's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
Thank you Sun Lion for the Daily Mail article. For anyone interested, here is the original Sunday Times article, that is behind a paywall: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/h...tles-s2dcf7m7q

I agree with the "royal aid" that Harry and Meghan has broken the agreement "upholding the values of the Queen" by getting into the "muddy waters" of US presidential elections. Here is an extract from the Daily Mail article:
Members of the royal family are supposed to be politically neutral, and under the Sandringham accord - agreed in March when the pair quit their royal duties - the Sussexes vowed that 'everything they do will uphold the values of Her Majesty'.

However, according to The Sunday Times, royal aides have said that the couple's comments last week have broken their promise from earlier this year.

'The [royal] family are all wringing their hands, thinking: where is this going and does this abide by the deal to uphold the values of the Queen? The feeling is it's a violation of the agreement,' one source told the newspaper.

The sources say that if the agreement is deemed to have been violated, Prince Harry's chances of resuming his connections to the Royal Marines and other military posts he is said to hold dear could be under threat.

The arrangement the Sussexes have with the royal family will be reviewed after a year by The Queen, the Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cambridge.
I also agree that there is going to be conflicts and issues if Trump does get re-elected and enters the UK for State Visit. This is unless Harry gets "completely airbrushed", which is not likely, because Harry is always the Queen's grandson and her heir's son.
Buckingham palace sough to distance itself from their remarks, with royal sources saying that the monarch had been embarrassed by the comments, asking what the Queen is supposed to say should Donald Trump have another presidential visit.

'If Trump is re-elected and makes another visit here, what is the Queen supposed to say when her grandson and his wife have effectively campaigned against him?' said a source.

A spokesman for the Sussexes said: 'The duke's message is not in reference to any specific political party or candidate, but is instead a call for decency in how we engage with each other.'
On a side note, the next article with the heading "Do Meghan Markle and Prince Harry actually WANT to be stripped of their titles?" is written by the columnist Sarah Vine. She is the wife of Rt Hon. Michael Gove MP, who is currently the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office. I do sometimes wonder does Mr. Gove have the same view (in private) of Harry and Meghan? However, the Government and Cabinet has not been involved in these matters, because there are more important things to worry about.
A different article AC21091968 than the one linked by you above I think.

"The Australian" newspaper has reproduced the UK Times article in today's Sunday paper.

A report by Roya Nikkhah and Tim Shipman.

Some quotes from a named friend of the Duke of Edinburgh.

A balanced article with pros and cons re the recent "voting" video by the couple.

I think you can open it and read it once - like I did - but once closed it can’t be re-opened unless you sign up.
  #205  
Old 09-27-2020, 03:13 AM
Courtier
 
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Unfortunately, too many people want to politicise anything and everything now. It's amazing how many people are using the coronavirus pandemic to try to score political points, for example. But it doesn't have to be like that. If Harry and Meghan want to get involved with "woke" causes, they can do so without sticking their noses into the election. But that doesn't seem to be what they want.
  #206  
Old 09-27-2020, 03:46 AM
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What irritates the most for me is the undertones of some articles (like a recent one from Hugo Vickers in the Telegraph) wants Harry to abandon Meghan and Archie and come back to the UK. Do they really think hurting a child is a good look for the House of Windsor? Divorcing Meghan without cause - unless it's adultery - Harry would never recover from that. It would be like when Charles hooking up with Camilla on Diana's watch. Camilla still hasn't fully recovered from the homewrecker image otherwise she would be called Princess of Wales now.
  #207  
Old 09-27-2020, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
What irritates the most for me is the undertones of some articles (like a recent one from Hugo Vickers in the Telegraph) wants Harry to abandon Meghan and Archie and come back to the UK. Do they really think hurting a child is a good look for the House of Windsor? Divorcing Meghan without cause - unless it's adultery - Harry would never recover from that. It would be like when Charles hooking up with Camilla on Diana's watch. Camilla still hasn't fully recovered from the homewrecker image otherwise she would be called Princess of Wales now.

I don't know why anyone thinks Prince Harry will return to his old UK life Madame Verseau - or that he should return.

By all accounts he was not happy in that for many years.

I see he and Meghan staying in California and following an evermore diverging path from his brother...and being happy in it.
  #208  
Old 09-27-2020, 05:19 AM
Courtier
 
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Once the monies were repaid, and all dependence on money from the POW changed, it was obvious they were walking away from any ' controls' or restrictions placed on them, and fair enough.
They have already done the interview opening up their issues, the book, well there are mixed thoughts on that one.
AS for keeping true to the Queen, anybody who ready the website statement when they left IMO would be under no illusions that they were going to hold to that.

I have said this before but the people in the UK do not care about them anymore , the latest video talking about voting, my friends and I didn't even discuss. When I think how we sat round the television all day watching them with our wedding hats on and drinking champagne ( sparkling wine to be honest ) it is quite sad.

I do not think they will take the titles away. If they wanted true independence and freedom they would not use them but that is only my opinion.
  #209  
Old 09-27-2020, 06:29 AM
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ior-aides.html

If the same President is back in November, how much licence do they have in making personal attacks on someone. I thought their line of income was charity events, and deals with big corporations.


March, 2021, can't see Harry looking forward to that; the next conference at Sandringham!
  #210  
Old 09-27-2020, 06:46 AM
Courtier
 
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Due to covid a face to face Sandringham meeting might not be possible. What would there be to discuss, they have achieved financial independence, they do not want to do royal duties.
End of...
  #211  
Old 09-27-2020, 07:20 AM
Gentry
 
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Well they can tell them not to use any of their titles like they did with their style hrh.
  #212  
Old 09-27-2020, 07:32 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Lion View Post
Although this link is to the Daily Mail, the original source is "The Sunday Times".

Royal aides have spoken to "The Sunday Times" about the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and their promises to The Queen.

Her Majesty was keeping Prince Harry's positions in the UK open for him in case he returned.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ior-aides.html

It is odd that Harry allegedly wants to retain his military appointments such as captain general of the Royal Marines while living in California and literally giving up on the UK. In fact, it is rather pretentious on his part to feel that he is entitled to that position.


Since Harry believes he must now get involved in US politics, the natural evolution would be for him to become a US citizen , which in turn would require renouncing his allegiance to the Queen and giving up his titles. One more reason for him to lose his UK and Commonwealth appointments as soon as possible.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tizenship.html
  #213  
Old 09-27-2020, 09:33 AM
Courtier
 
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Even if they started calling themselves Mr and Mrs Windsor-Markle, Harry would still be the Queen's grandson, and it would still be embarrassing if he got involved in the politics of another country, especially if that involved criticising that country's elected leader, with whom the British government has to work. It's very awkward.
  #214  
Old 09-27-2020, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Even if they started calling themselves Mr and Mrs Windsor-Markle, Harry would still be the Queen's grandson, and it would still be embarrassing if he got involved in the politics of another country, especially if that involved criticising that country's elected leader, with whom the British government has to work. It's very awkward.
I am going to quote Somebody, who has posted some hypothetical, but reasonable situations in the old Sussex thread (Post #643 from General News about the Sussex Family, Part Three: August-September 2020). These two (Mike Tindall and Autumn Kelly's cases) are brilliant examples that show the complexity of "independent life" and "freedom" despite not being working royals and having no titles. The Duchess of Gloucester is a working royal, who worked previously at the Danish Embassy in London. She was born and raised in Denmark until late teens or early adulthood. By going into politics, there is always the risk "dragging the royal family". Thank you Somebody for your post. You explained it much better than I could
"While I agree that it would be much better for Harry and Meghan not to use their British titles, I am not sure that I agree that they could do and say 'whatever they want' without a title. For example, let's imagine Mike Tindall (no title) becoming extremely active as a member of the Lib-Dems or UKIP. I don't think that would go over well; he might be a private person, he is also still a member of the BRF. Or, what if Autumn while still married to Peter would have campaigned for the Conservative Party calling people to vote 'for change' (so against the Liberals led by Trudeau); would that be totally fine? Or could the Duchess of Gloucester meddle in Danish politics as long as she is not using her title?"
  #215  
Old 09-27-2020, 12:50 PM
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The system relies on the goodwill of members of the royal family. Once someone breaks ranks itís near impossible to get that geni back in the bottle.

What the long term implications on attitudes towards the royal family as an institution will be Iím not sure. I suspect there will be an increasing cynicism from the British public.

Hopefully the duke (& the other duke) will do the honest & honourable thing & unilaterally abjure his noble & princely status. Preferably without rancour or point scoring. That would go some way to salvaging something from this sorry situation. Lessons need to be learnt for the next generation. Maybe that is a discussion for another thread.
  #216  
Old 09-27-2020, 12:53 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
What irritates the most for me is the undertones of some articles (like a recent one from Hugo Vickers in the Telegraph) wants Harry to abandon Meghan and Archie and come back to the UK.
I agree. What a contemptible thing for Vickers to write (if that is really what he did imply). Shameful really.

Edit - comment in brackets added after reading the below since I have not read the article.
  #217  
Old 09-27-2020, 01:04 PM
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Since the article is behind a paywall, perhaps someone could share what exactly was said by Vickers?
  #218  
Old 09-27-2020, 01:18 PM
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Harry needs to grow up and start thinking for himself, On one side he wants all the perks and status of Royalty on the other side of the coin he don't want to work for it. He must like the Celebrity status, it will hit hard when no one wants to listen to him and Meghan anymore. Duke and Dss sounds way more IMPORTANT than plain Harry and Meghan WHO?. Title alone means nothing if you refuse to live up to the Responsibility of it. BTW I am old enough to THINK for myself, I don't need them or any has beens to tell me what to think feel or act. American people are way smarter then that,to fall for this nonsense.
  #219  
Old 09-27-2020, 01:27 PM
Claire's Avatar
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I really think the article spells out a very realistic truth that Prince Harry finds himself in. His position and here read money and privilege - allowing him many options in life and the ability to change his mind.
If he wants to return to England, with or without Meghan, with or without Archie - what would be his options - the Queen has left the door open for this return, will he be accepted by the military and the British public in the same way. This will be slightly different if Meghan is part of the equation.
But admitting this failure , his pride will be severally hurt.
But if he now has doubts about anything - marriage, LA, Netflix any of it . It is best to move backwards before you dig a deeper hole then you are already in.
I am sure as with any divorce they can arrange dual custody with regard to Archie.
  #220  
Old 09-27-2020, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post


The system relies on the goodwill of members of the royal family. Once someone breaks ranks itís near impossible to get that geni back in the bottle.

What the long term implications on attitudes towards the royal family as an institution will be Iím not sure. I suspect there will be an increasing cynicism from the British public.

Hopefully the duke (& the other duke) will do the honest & honourable thing & unilaterally abjure his noble & princely status. Preferably without rancour or point scoring. That would go some way to salvaging something from this sorry situation. Lessons need to be learnt for the next generation. Maybe that is a discussion for another thread.
This is a really important point! In the end there is little even the Sovereign can do if one of the (senior) members of the family breaks rank. It all depends on them caring about the responsibility that was entrusted to their family.

Unfortunately, it seems that (breaking rank) is exactly the path Harry and Meghan are on. They are out for themselves and I see little commitment to 'uphold the values of the Queen' in everything they do. If it works for them, fine, if it doesn't, there is little holding them back from 'interpreting' them in a way that is favorable to their personal mission.
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