The Duke & Duchess of Sussex and Family, News and Events 3: March - April 2021

[Alison H]

Louise is 13 years younger than Eugenie. A lot changed in that time. I think that the 1992 Windsor Castle fire was a big turning point: major questions were asked at that time about the cost of the monarchy, and it was decided that the Queen should pay tax, and that the taxpayer shouldn't fund the refurbishment of Windsor. That was reinforced a few years later by the decision to decommission the Royal Yacht Britannia. Even Edward and Sophie's wedding was part of that - if Andrew was entitled to a huge wedding in Westminster Abbey, then so was Edward, but it didn't happen. Everything was moving towards slimming down the monarchy, and Edward and Sophie understood that, but apparently Harry and Meghan didn't.

 

[Claire]

I expect that they will come to the UK - or say they want to for the Great grandparents. Bless their little self serving hearts. Harry must really be expecting a windfall from the Queen's will.

With regard to when the titles and when what was discussed when - I expect it will be changed again in the next interview and the next after that. They want one rule fort themselves and another for everyone else.

It has occurred to me that all of this could have been avoided it the Queen and Charles had cemented their plans have them as rules, and not agreements. IF they had simply published the letter patent that everyone appears to be following and Charles' grand plan for a slimmed down monarchy so everyone in the family knows exactly where they stand and there is no conflicting opinions.
I find it very ironic that the steps Charles put in place to secure power and popularity for himself and his family is the exact things that they are using against him. The monarchy Charles had envisioned is gone and he is having to save face with the royals that he pushed aside previously - there is a parable in this somewhere. I think Meghan got the story wrong - this is King Lear not the Little Mermaid. Harry and Meghan have miscast themsevles.

 

[tommy100]

Surely she can't get access to the e-mails? Not at present at least, I imagine.
That could be seen as intimidating, if she were, I'd say. (Whether she is guilty in bulling or nor is beside the point.)

It would seem highly inappropriate to me. I mean we can guess between us that once H&M see them their PR teams will try to discredit those people who have made any claims through the media. Surely such content will be kept private, the outcome will probably include a report that will highlight some evidence but also rely on those carrying out the investigation to draw judgements based on what they have seen and heard. Handing it to an independent outsider seems the best idea - it will make it harder for people to believe any outcomes have been manipulated by the Palace.

 

[Heavs]

I expect that they will come to the UK - or say they want to for the Great grandparents. Bless their little self serving hearts. Harry must really be expecting a windfall from the Queen's will.

With regard to when the titles and when what was discussed when - I expect it will be changed again in the next interview and the next after that. They want one rule fort themselves and another for everyone else.

It has occurred to me that all of this could have been avoided it the Queen and Charles had cemented their plans have them as rules, and not agreements. IF they had simply published the letter patent that everyone appears to be following and Charles' grand plan for a slimmed down monarchy so everyone in the family knows exactly where they stand and there is no conflicting opinions.
I find it very ironic that the steps Charles put in place to secure power and popularity for himself and his family is the exact things that they are using against him. The monarchy Charles had envisioned is gone and he is having to save face with the royals that he pushed aside previously - there is a parable in this somewhere. I think Meghan got the story wrong - this is King Lear not the Little Mermaid. Harry and Meghan have miscast themsevles.

It doesn't seem to be set in stone yet though as evidenced by even Meghan talking about "the George V or VI protocol". All that happened was something DIDN'T happen. HM didn't go "Oh, Harry and Meghan your baby definitely needs to be HRH Prince/ss because you're the most popular royals!" or "Yes Harry, I agree it's unfair, let me just get my pen out."

It might also be seen as a bit rude and jumping the gun for Charles to publicly lay out his plans for the Monarchy under his reign before his mother even dies. There are enough "jokes" that he wants her to die or abdicate ASAP as it is.

Not to mention the Kents and Glouscesters are still working.

Besides even if the Queen had issued a proclamation about titles before Harry and Meghan even married they would still find a way to make themselves the victims in all this. Harry seems to think a lot of exceptions should be made for them.

I mean they're complaining that their son doesn't have HRH Prince when they've also declared "The Institution" toxic and his family as trapped and sent them both to dark places. Their words about titles and racism are accepted as truth even though the facts about the 1917 LPs have been plastered all over the place. I'm not sure most media companies even bothered to google before writing articles.

I agree they might find themselves short handed with just William and Kate in that generation but they might also change how things like patronages are handled going forward.

 

[Erin9]

More and more, I'm thinking one purpose that this interview served is that Harry and Meghan bit the hand that fed them. Did they honestly think there would be no repercussions and that everyone and their grandmother's pet cockatoo would just blindly accept whatever they've said as being gospel truth?



The fall out of all this though is just reaching the ears and eyes of people that could see the discrepancies. The majority of the people that have watched the interview probably have forgotten it by now. It was two hours of entertainment on one night. This interview hit out and hurt a lot of people that should matter to Harry and Meghan but effectively, it's going to alienate them even further from them.

I don’t think Harry and Meghan seriously think through the consequences of much of anything they do. They do things half- cocked. It’s very consistent. They didn’t seriously think about what financial independence meant. They sure didn’t think before launching their website announcing their half in and half out plan as a done deal- and then had to roll that back. (That had to be embarrassing.)

So- I’m sure they didn’t seriously think through the consequences of giving a bombshell interview that was going to be fact checked with a fine tooth comb and was absolutely certain to further alienate them from family, possibly friends, maybe even future business deals with people who now perceive them as loose cannons, untrustworthy, etc.

You’re right: They burned a lot of bridges with people that should matter to Harry and Meghan for a 2 hour interview that for most people was “2 hours of entertainment on one night”....and most viewers have forgotten it by now.

 

[Moran]

I agree they might find themselves short handed with just William and Kate in that generation but they might also change how things like patronages are handled going forward.

They will be definitely short-handed now but I believe they're going to find a way, be it different handling of patronages or something else. Harry and Meghan didn't leave them with much of a choice, did they?


Re: bullying allegations. Isn't it unrealistic of Meghan to expect anything from the BP? Surely it's the independant company investigating the case that decides who gets what? I mean, the BP all but admitted loud that it was incapable of handling it directly because it had failed spectacularly *in her favour*. I suspect that's why she turned to the palace. Interview notwithstanding, it's easier for Harry to throw his weight around or whine to his grandmother and father than trying to do it with an outside entity.

 

[poppy7]

I don’t think Harry and Meghan seriously think through the consequences of much of anything they do. They do things half- cocked. It’s very consistent. They didn’t seriously think about what financial independence meant. They sure didn’t think before launching their website announcing their half in and half out plan as a done deal- and then had to roll that back. (That had to be embarrassing.)

So- I’m sure they didn’t seriously think through the consequences of giving a bombshell interview that was going to be fact checked with a fine tooth comb and was absolutely certain to further alienate them from family, possibly friends, maybe even future business deals with people who now perceive them as loose cannons, untrustworthy, etc.

You’re right: They burned a lot of bridges with people that should matter to Harry and Meghan for a 2 hour interview that for most people was “2 hours of entertainment on one night”....and most viewers have forgotten it by now.

I think this is something that even their friends and supporters say. They are impetuous and what they want today isn't necessarily what they want tomorrow.

Diana was like that too to a certain extent. It's all very worrying really.

I am sure Harry hasn't taught about anything long term. I mean it's pretty dreadful

 

[poppy7]

Re: bullying allegations. Isn't it unrealistic of Meghan to expect anything from the BP? Surely it's the independant company investigating the case that decides who gets what? I mean, the BP all but admitted loud that it was incapable of handling it directly because it had failed spectacularly *in her favour*. I suspect that's why she turned to the palace. Interview notwithstanding, it's easier for Harry to throw his weight around or whine to his grandmother and father than trying to do it with an outside entity.

It was obvious they would need an outsider. And to be honest I would expect it. They probably saw how many people were involved and decided it was better to outsource given the number of employees affected.

This is very normal practice.

 

[Hallo girl]

The e mails were not hers, they were written and sent to others so I am not sure how she can demand them .

I thought the enquiry was in regards to how the complaints were handled not if they were justified.

 

[Sunnystar]

The e mails were not hers, they were written and sent to others so I am not sure how she can demand them .

Well, they were written about her, so she needs to see them in order to set the record straight about their varying recollections. And, also, to see what she has in her own email archives so that she can settle any scores. ?

 

[Moran]

It was obvious they would need an outsider. And to be honest I would expect it. They probably saw how many people were involved and decided it was better to outsource given the number of employees affected.

This is very normal practice.

Yes. But the fact that seemingly nothing was done to protect the employees didn't help either. It also contradicts Meghan's statements that she was completely unprotected by the Palace.


To me, it's a huge loss of face for the BP and this alone should be a reason to outsource. They were alerted before and it seems they did nothing. To be fair, I fail to see what they *could* have done. Effectively fire Meghan as a working royal? I can imagine how well *this* would have gone. The evil establishment against the poor biracial woman who only wanted to do her best! Expose her as a bully if she had been found one? Would they have been believed? That's, if such an extraordinary step had been deemed wise.


Outsourcing is the only way now and the fact that Meghan no longer works for The Firm helps matters. Just like Harry is turning into the Andrew of his generation, at some point there would be a future "Meghan", work-wise - again, if the allegations prove true. They'd better be prepared to actually deal with it. And who knows, when the investigation is over, we might end up with another working royal who has been protected in their bullying.

 

[Denville]

well precisely, it would not have been easy to take action against Meghan, would it, if she were guilty? Possibly, someone spoke ot her privately and advised her that she was upsetting staff and that she couldn't go on doing that and that only made her angrier and readier to walk out....

 

[Osipi]

I think this is something that even their friends and supporters say. They are impetuous and what they want today isn't necessarily what they want tomorrow.

Diana was like that too to a certain extent. It's all very worrying really.

I am sure Harry hasn't taught about anything long term. I mean it's pretty dreadful

Part of maturity is learning delayed gratification. A child wants what it wants right now and if it doesn't get it, it throws a tantrum demanding it. A mature adult sees a long term goal and sets plans in motion to attain that goal.

Maybe Harry and Meghan did have very valid reasons why they couldn't remain as senior working royals. Maybe they were "victimized" and maybe they weren't. Its all perspective. As adults, they chose the means and the methods that felt right for them to pursue what they perceived a happy and fruitful life would be. With the methods they chose, it solved the problem *then and there* but what they didn't plan on was repercussions from their actions that would affect their future such as the "paycheck" from the "Bank of Dad" that floated their working royal roles would dissipate.

The press against Meghan was a constant and, I believe, had a lot to do with contention within the family. Where was the support against the mean old press? They left. A year later, there isn't that much really being reported on Harry and Meghan anymore in the press. They're not making front pages. They're seeing the "institution" go on like clockwork even amid a pandemic. The world didn't stop because Harry and Meghan left and in the US press, there were far more other things to make the front pages here. Royalty isn't a big deal in the scheme of American life. If they planned on who they were to open doors for them, I'd not be surprised if over the past year, they found that wasn't the case. The Duchess of Sussex ranks right up there with Queen Latifah, Prince and the King of Rock n' Roll.

Perhaps the interview was a cry to be relevant again as they once were. They were admired, applauded, cheered and perhaps even loved. What they didn't realize is that it was the global platform of the monarchy and the institution itself that put them into the position of being acclaimed. Now they're going to have to earn what they have not only in terms of money but also respect and admiration for who they are as individuals. They got what they wanted. Now it seems like they don't know what to do with it.

 

[Sionevar]

I agree they might find themselves short handed with just William and Kate in that generation but they might also change how things like patronages are handled going forward.

I've read elsewhere that Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands did a huge house cleaning when he became King, reduced his patronages to a select few that he wished to continue his connection with.

Perhaps the BRF should do the same thing. Don't worry so much about having enough royals to go around - worry more about being patrons of things they really value and that make sense for them to be associated with.

 

[poppy7]

Part of maturity is learning delayed gratification. A child wants what it wants right now and if it doesn't get it, it throws a tantrum demanding it. A mature adult sees a long term goal and sets plans in motion to attain that goal.

Maybe Harry and Meghan did have very valid reasons why they couldn't remain as senior working royals. Maybe they were "victimized" and maybe they weren't. Its all perspective. As adults, they chose the means and the methods that felt right for them to pursue what they perceived a happy and fruitful life would be. With the methods they chose, it solved the problem *then and there* but what they didn't plan on was repercussions from their actions that would affect their future such as the "paycheck" from the "Bank of Dad" that floated their working royal roles would dissipate.

The press against Meghan was a constant and, I believe, had a lot to do with contention within the family. Where was the support against the mean old press? They left. A year later, there isn't that much really being reported on Harry and Meghan anymore in the press. They're not making front pages. They're seeing the "institution" go on like clockwork even amid a pandemic. The world didn't stop because Harry and Meghan left and in the US press, there were far more other things to make the front pages here. Royalty isn't a big deal in the scheme of American life. If they planned on who they were to open doors for them, I'd not be surprised if over the past year, they found that wasn't the case. The Duchess of Sussex ranks right up there with Queen Latifah, Prince and the King of Rock n' Roll.

Perhaps the interview was a cry to be relevant again as they once were. They were admired, applauded, cheered and perhaps even loved. What they didn't realize is that it was the global platform of the monarchy and the institution itself that put them into the position of being acclaimed. Now they're going to have to earn what they have not only in terms of money but also respect and admiration for who they are as individuals. They got what they wanted. Now it seems like they don't know what to do with it.

Well if they didn't realise that was their platform. They are fools. It's the only card they have. Maybe Harry thought he could be like his mother. But memories are short and Diana's star in the summer she died was on the wane. She was being heavily criticised in the press and really things were beginning to move on for her and for everyone. I remember thinking it at the time...she's moving on now and that its over.

Indont even think Diana in the long run would have had huge fame.

 

[Erin9]

Yes. But the fact that seemingly nothing was done to protect the employees didn't help either. It also contradicts Meghan's statements that she was completely unprotected by the Palace.


To me, it's a huge loss of face for the BP and this alone should be a reason to outsource. They were alerted before and it seems they did nothing. To be fair, I fail to see what they *could* have done. Effectively fire Meghan as a working royal? I can imagine how well *this* would have gone. The evil establishment against the poor biracial woman who only wanted to do her best! Expose her as a bully if she had been found one? Would they have been believed? That's, if such an extraordinary step had been deemed wise.


Outsourcing is the only way now and the fact that Meghan no longer works for The Firm helps matters. Just like Harry is turning into the Andrew of his generation, at some point there would be a future "Meghan", work-wise - again, if the allegations prove true. They'd better be prepared to actually deal with it. And who knows, when the investigation is over, we might end up with another working royal who has been protected in their bullying.

Agreed.

If what is being alleged about Meghan is true, IA, it had to be difficult to figure out what to do about it for all the reasons you stated. That doesn’t make it okay to leave employees unprotected, but I see the obstacles. What could they do?

I could certainly see attempts to “course correct” Meghan not going over very well should anyone have tried. It’s possible they did- and it wasn’t working. Meghan doesn’t come across as someone who handles criticism of any kind well IMO. Everything is always someone else’s fault. And Harry is really no better. These 2 seem to have some very similar character flaws that then get reinforced because they’re so alike in certain ways.

Outsourcing is the only solution and hopefully they can come up with a plan to effectively deal with this sort of problem should the need arise in the future.

 

[Mbruno]

I don’t know if there are any protocols in place for a US christening of a Royal baby since there has never been that scenario that I am aware of. If you were dealing with any other Royal couple, I would imagine the expectation would be that they would fly home to the UK to have the Traditional Royal christening in the Church of England. Clearly that isn’t going to happen. I don’t see any Royal attending a christening in the US and I am quite sure that even if Harry wanted it, Meghan would not. We all know what Meghan wants where Harry is concerned, Meghan gets.

I don't think there is any precedent in the British Royal Family, but Princess Margriet of the Netherlands was born in Canada while Princess Juliana and her family were in exile during World War II. The Dutch RF belonged to the Reformed Church and the Princess was christened in Ottawa at St Andrew's Presbyterian Church, which belongs to some Calvinist tradition as the Dutch Reformed Church. Queen Mary (King George V's dowager) was one of her godmothers, but I don't know if she actually attended the christening.

 

[Kataryn]

I just wonder why is it always the BRF who gets into such problems with family members? They can't be the only Royal family or if so, why? Would love to see your opinions and thoughts.

 

[Osipi]

Well if they didn't realise that was their platform. They are fools. It's the only card they have. Maybe Harry thought he could be like his mother. But memories are short and Diana's star in the summer she died was on the wane. She was being heavily criticised in the press and really things were beginning to move on for her and for everyone. I remember thinking it at the time...she's moving on now and that its over.

Indont even think Diana in the long run would have had huge fame.

Perhaps they didn't realize the *extent* of how much that global platform held them up in the world. Oprah, on the other hand, started from rock bottom and built herself up to where she is and works to keep it. It's easy to think that perhaps Harry, with always being "royal" since birth couldn't fathom ever not being "royal" and what came with it - both the positive and negative aspects. It was his way of life. Now Harry could go into a mom and pop shop somewhere in Nebraska and chances are that no one would would deem him anyone else but a customer and be told to "take a number" and see a sign above the register that states "In God we trust, all others pay cash."

One thing that tipped me off is that no responsible adult would take an inheritance and use every dime of it to buy a $14 million dollar mansion with absolutely no guarantee that there will be income flowing into the bank account to ensure they *keep* that mansion. Perhaps they thought the Bank of Dad will always be there. They didn't think things through that if they were going "independent", it meant just that and no Bank of Dad.

I had a friend like that who was impulsive and received very good funding for being disabled in the military. He'd get his check on the first, go out and get his "wants" but at the end of month looking to sell things to pay the bills. This is an example of instant gratification. It's what we had to learn here too when we retired and dependent on a fixed income that comes in on the 1st of the month. We learned to get what we need, pay the bills due and then wait and see what is left for the wants. Those wants definitely became different.

 

[Mbruno]

I just wonder why is it always the BRF who gets into such problems with family members? They can't be the only Royal family or if so, why? Would love to see your opinions and thoughts.

There are family problems in other monarchies too. Prince Laurent in Belgium and Tessy Antony de Nassau in Luxembourg for example. Not to mention Infanta Cristina of Spain, whose husband is still in jail serving time, or even the King Emeritus, Juan Carlos, who stands accused of taking 60 million euros (?) in bribery money, and is living in exile in the UAE.

The British Royal Family, however, has a tendency IMHO to overreact to minor family feuds.

 

[Prinsara]

I just wonder why is it always the BRF who gets into such problems with family members? They can't be the only Royal family or if so, why? Would love to see your opinions and thoughts.

Because they're not. They're just the most publicized.

Spain – Juan Carlos now and Cristina and Iñaki before that, Norway - Märtha Louise and her boyfriend, Japan – the current Crown Prince criticizing the current Emperor in public awhile ago, The Netherlands - Friso and Mabel lying to the public and comfortably walking away from succession. And that's just off the top of my head.

 

[KrissyM]

Why should they be changed? I am delighted that Archie and sister wont be HRH. For them. They will have a degree of self determination in their lives not permitted to their royal cousins. Even Beatrice and Eugenie dont have anywhere near a normal life.

It is a good thing.

I never [ever said I thought they should be changed. I have no opinion on it.

 

[Sionevar]

I just wonder why is it always the BRF who gets into such problems with family members? They can't be the only Royal family or if so, why? Would love to see your opinions and thoughts.

I think it's more that they have the highest profile of any royal family, so their problems are more widely reported.

The Luxemburgish royals have had similar problems. The current Grand Duchess was accused of bullying staff to the extent the government conducted an investigation. They've also had some 'complaining to the media' issues with Tessy de Nassau - Prince Louis' now ex-wife. And the Grand Duchess sat down with a bunch of journalists many years ago to air a whole bunch of grievances about how badly her (now deceased) mother-in-law treated her because she wasn't born royal.

I've also read stories about the Norwegian royals and the Spanish royals. They just don't get the same attention as stories about the British royals outside their home countries.

 

[Kataryn]

I've also read stories about the Norwegian royals and the Spanish royals. They just don't get the same attention as stories about the British royals outside their home countries.

I can see that, yes. Thank you.

 

[Alison H]

There was a lot of talk a couple of years ago about Queen Sofia and Queen Letizia having a big feud and barely speaking, plus there's been all the talk about Juan Carlos's mistresses, and the tax issues. Going back a while, there were claims that the late Prince Henrik of Denmark had stormed off in a huff because he said that his sons were treated as being more important than him. There've been the issues in Belgium over King Albert's secret daughter. King Carl Gustaf and Queen Silvia of Sweden had to wait years to get approval to marry. There've been widespread rumours that Princess Charlene of Monaco tried to do a runner before her wedding. Just a few examples.


All Royal Families have their issues! But the British Royal Family have a much higher profile worldwide, so their issues are reported more widely.

 

[Mbruno]

I think it's more that they have the highest profile of any royal family, so their problems are more widely reported.

The Luxemburgish royals have had similar problems. The current Grand Duchess was accused of bullying staff to the extent the government conducted an investigation. They've also had some 'complaining to the media' issues with Tessy de Nassau - Prince Louis' now ex-wife. And the Grand Duchess sat down with a bunch of journalists many years ago to air a whole bunch of grievances about how badly her (now deceased) mother-in-law treated her because she wasn't born royal.

I've also read stories about the Norwegian royals and the Spanish royals. They just don't get the same attention as stories about the British royals outside their home countries.

The Spanish royals actually get a lot of attention in Latin America (the Spanish and Portuguese-speaking world) in addition to Spain and Portugal properly. They are probaby the most well-known RF internationally after the British RF. The Norwegian royals on the other hand are probably known only in the Scandinavian and nearby countries (e. g. Germany).

Of course royal watchers like the members of this Forum tend to follow various RFs even when they are from countries where those families don't get a lot of coverage.

There was a lot of talk a couple of years ago about Queen Sofia and Queen Letizia having a big feud and barely speaking, plus there's been all the talk about Juan Carlos's mistresses, and the tax issues. Going back a while, there were claims that the late Prince Henrik of Denmark had stormed off in a huff because he said that his sons were treated as being more important than him. There've been the issues in Belgium over King Albert's secret daughter. King Carl Gustaf and Queen Silvia of Sweden had to wait years to get approval to marry. There've been widespread rumours that Princess Charlene of Monaco tried to do a runner before her wedding. Just a few examples.

Letizia always had a rough time in Spain because Felipe's family never fully accepted her or warmed up to her and, on top of that, she is not popular either with the Spanish public and has long been a victim of abuse and the most vicious attacks from the Spanish press and social media. If she were like Diana or Meghan, she would have quit a long time ago.



Again, I think the difference, in addition to visibility/coverage, is that British Royal Family is worse at keeping those family problems under control.

 

[Heavs]

I think everything to do with ML and Durek would be front page news around the world if they were in the BRF. They are also an interracial couple who have said they faced racism from Norwegians/the press and much prefer LA where they want to settle and start a very dubious business such as their previous "Princess and the Shaman" stage tour. But I don't think Oprah is interested in sitting down with them because out side of Scandinavia very few people know who they are. All of the NRF "controversial" married ins would be front page news, at least for a time. Poor M-M's health would be endlessly speculated on.

JC of Spain and his behaviour is a lot more scandalous than most of the current BRF.

As would things like Delphine Boel and previously Louis and Tessy and their unconventional start and divorce. Not to mention M-T effectively being ousted from her Grand Duchess role by the PM of Lux for being a bully that may have driven her staff to despair and potential suicide and the Cour that let it happen.

And lets not forget Sheikh Mohammed and his missing/drugged and imprisoned daughters.

 

[TLLK]

I just wonder why is it always the BRF who gets into such problems with family members? They can't be the only Royal family or if so, why? Would love to see your opinions and thoughts.

They're not the only ones. As I recall recent decades that the Belgian, Spanish, Thai, Japanese and Dutch have had family issues that ended up becoming public news.
However the worst family feud had to be the Nepalese one. Slaughtering your entire family is a bit of an overreaction IMHO.

 

[Denville]

They're not the only ones. As I recall recent decades that the Belgian, Spanish, Thai, Japanese and Dutch have had family issues that ended up becoming public news.

Apart from the Andrew scandal, I think that the BRF has less serious problems than many other monarchies, such as the Spanish one.

 

[Moran]

They're simply the most visible RF. Also, the worldwise use of English helps their visibility for good or bad.


When I was learning Norwegian, many years ago, I saw some newspapers from a few years before, from the time of Haakon and Mette Marit's betrothal. My, did these newspapers have something to say about her having had a kid! It was quite the contrast with the nice explanation of "He is married. Crown Princess Mette Marit has a boy" from the textbook (a beginner level, basic words) accompanied by a photo of the three of them at the wedding.