The Duchess of Sussex: Family and Background

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53

Regarding the leaking of Harry's private 'hearsay' comments about Trump and Brexit, first of all, Piers was clearly out-of-line in pushing Mr. Markle to reveal such 'off-the-cuff' conversational details. Piers even came back to this topic again at the end of the interview in a brazen attempt to squeeze more information from Mr. Markle. That's when Mr. Markle finally had the presence of mind to point out that it was a 'loose conversation' during which Harry was trying to be supportive and encouraging toward Mr. Markle's upset feelings over Trump. I don't see the private comments that were IMO unwittingly revealed by Markle Snr, as being indicative of Harry's personal feelings nor his actual political beliefs.

First off, thanks m'friend for the link to the interview with closed captioning. They didn't do a good job of it at all but I got the gist of what the interview was like and what amazed me the most was, as you state, the goading and pushing of Piers to return again and again to a topic of conversation where it was obvious he was pushing Mr. Markle for a response and goading him to say something "controversial".

I actually could only stomach the first two segments of the YouTube video. After Piers stated for the third (or was it fourth) time that Mr. Markle was alone in a small B&B watching his daughter on a *small* television set, it was too blatantly obvious to me that he was going for the jugular vein as would a experienced hunter knowing just where to aim his sights to bring down his prey.

Mr. Markle was visibly uncomfortable and its proves to me that my initial reaction of his being a Mr. Magoo being caught in the headlights like a startled deer is a correct one. Tom, for the most part wouldn't even look directly at the camera in front of him and for the majority of the interview, he had downcast eyes. When he did show his hands, I could see them visibly shaking and this was not a man comfortable in his own skin and was one being subjected to being goaded and pushed and prodded for reactions and responses.

Piers Morgan should be ashamed of himself for this interview but then again, he had a perfect patsy that walked right into his trap. Tom Markle, Sr. was blatantly taken advantage of but then again, Mr. Markle, with being in full control of all his faculties walked into this trap openly and willingly.

Once again, this is something that has backfired on Mr. Markle no matter if his motives and intents were to be nothing else but the proud father of the new Duchess of Sussex. Sometimes it takes multiple stabs at a lesson before the lesson finally sinks in.

Originally Posted by Somebody

His description sounded as if he had percutaneouscoronary*intervention (PCI)*which includes cardiac catherization. This is not comparable at all to open heart surgery (he would not have been allowed to leave hospital before the wedding in that case either), so not what I would describe as a heart operation but he did receive treatment for his heart and his condition seems to have worsened considerably because of stress, so that explains the timing.

Having gone through this kind of a procedure with someone close to me, its a procedure that is done quite often and a lot of times is even out patient surgery. I do get where Tom Sr. is coming from that it didn't seem that big of a problem the first time he was in the hospital and even said, himself, that he checked himself out against medical advice as the "big day" was approaching and he felt better. It turned out to be the wrong move for him to make. What happened is the heart condition did escalate and he wasn't feeling "much better" and it all came to a head where he had no choice but to take care of himself first.

[sophie25]

All I'm saying is that none of us know that much about Meghan, not really. We are quick to say that her family members are so awful etc but we don't know enough about what they say about her to know if it's true or not. I suppose only time will tell.

[Somebody]

The flowers on Doria's doorstep are apparently a yearly tradition for mother's day. So that explains that part of the rather awkward week and a half before the wedding.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I for one felt Meghan shouldn't have talked to Vanity Fair either; to me it seemed tacky. IMO a royal gf or fiance should stay quiet no matter what until the engagement interview. Perhaps her dad thinks it's ok for him to talk because she talked.

[Somebody]

He now states that he made a mistake when he tried to brush up his image the first time, so he apologized but thinks this time him brushing up his image will somehow magically result in a very different outcome?

[ACO]

Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53

In no way does it look at all to me like Mr. Markle is being deceptive or intentionally trying to harm or 'harass' his daughter. Anyone who watches the entire interview in context (if they can get past the squirm-worthy supercilious questioning by Piers and his co-host), surely can't fail to see that Mr. Markle is a sweet guy and a regular 'Joe' who is simply in over his head.

I watched it and I don't agree with you. I see zero sweet about this man and frankly hardly have. I don't think he is any different than Samantha and Thomas Jr. He is just as shady and manipulative. He plays off this "Oh gee I am old man who doesn't know any better" but he does and he proves it when he does stuff like calls TMZ or Piers Morgan behind his daughter's back. Sorry. He doesn't fool me whatsoever.

Originally Posted by AdmirerUS

He is a grown American male living on his own in Mexico. IMO, he is in way over his head.

But equally, and whatever his daughter requests, it is his life to lead. He was raised in a country with free speech. But he will also have to live with the consequences of his chattiness.

Give me a break. He is a grown man. If his daughter asked him to respect her privacy and NOT talk to the press then do it. The fact he went against her wishes just proves how little he respects her. And that is enough of a reason for me to hope she walks away from him. Freedom of speech. Please. That is his excuse for betraying his daughter. Fascinating.

[DuchessMia]

Originally Posted by ACO

I watched it and I don't agree with you. I see zero sweet about this man and frankly hardly have. I don't think he is any different than Samantha and Thomas Jr. He is just as shady and manipulative. He plays off this "Oh gee I am old man who doesn't know any better" but he does and he proves it when he does stuff like calls TMZ or Piers Morgan behind his daughter's back. Sorry. He doesn't fool me whatsoever.

He’s no different than the siblings. Meghan would do well to keep him at arms’ length. He can’t be trusted. He isn’t going to stop selling her out. It’s too lucrative.

[King of the Jungle]

Oh my goodness.
Sharing hearsay of conversations with family on a World wide forum is not loyal.
It's sad that Meghan can not trust her father. She will always have to be very cautious with what she shares.
It's obvious that she knows him so decides to stay clear though is sensitive and caring to him.
There is something quite "regular guy finding himself in the floodlights" about Mr Markle; I don't see him as malicious.

[MaiaMia_53]

Thanks for your follow-up @Osipi. I completely agree with your comments. And indeed, the interview was hard to watch. It must be painful for Meghan seeing the way her father is being exploited, especially being that she loves him, understands his faults and is aware that he's made poor choices in the past. Again, it's difficult to try and guide an autonomous 70+ year old adult in a situation like this.

There were some harmlessly interesting and humorous responses by Mr. Markle in the interview. But yes, with the ever-increasing smarmy prying by Piers and the female host, Mr. Markle looked visibly more uncomfortable, almost as if he might have another heart attack on the set. He had to hold the concealed microphone over his ear, his voice shook at times, and his eyes twitched. But again, he's clearly proud of his daughter and he loves his daughter, and he showed concern for Meghan and Harry when he spoke of hoping they would have a chance to get away soon. His obvious love and concern makes it all the more sad that he seems incapable of discreetly handling the spotlight and the OTT exploitation. And it's tragic that he doesn't realize he's adding to Harry's and Meghan's media pressure.

It would be nice if discreet Mr. Middleton could show Mr. Markle the ropes, but that's very unlikely to happen.

Originally Posted by wyevale

I regret to say this pathetic business was reported on the main BBC Radio 4 news at 10pm, including that Markle sr ONLY 'gave his consent' to the union once assured the Duke would never 'raise his hand' to the Duchess... The tone adopted was one of wry amusement, and not a little ridicule...

The fact that Mr. Markle was manipulated by Piers Morgan to give specific details about what he said to Harry when he was asked for Meghan's hand in marriage, is what led to the comment which has been twisted as somehow being a negative implication against Harry. If you listen to the context, it becomes clear that it was a request by Mr. Markle which shows his loving care for his daughter. It's obviously something that Mr. Markle would have said to and required of any man marrying his daughter. For all we know, Mr. Markle likely said the same thing to Meghan's first husband (if Mr. Markle was asked as a courtesy for her hand in marriage, in that relationship).

They may as well also make fun of the question asked by ministers at weddings before vows are recited, as to whether anyone present knows a reason why the couple may not be joined together. The question is asked, without anticipation of there being a reply. Mr. Markle made the request of Harry because he loves his daughter, not because he believes anything negative about Harry's character. Mountain out of molehill. And obviously that's the reason to use discretion, or better yet as a family member related to a royal in-law, to remain completely quiet.

[Madame Verseau]

This was a stupid move by Tom Sr. Meghan and Harry have no reason to trust him now. And he took money for this interview, making him look as awful as Sam and Jr. Right after the interview Piers Morgan made a beeline to Daily Mail telling that Sr was paid thousands of pounds for the chat session. I bet Sr didn't count on that. I also bet Sr doesn't realize he's invited the media to really dig into his past now.

TMZ must be ticked off now . It was getting exclusives from Sr and now he turns on them. I bet TMZ is going to lead the charge to get dirt on him.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

I know in the US it is a theme and joke that dads are overprotective with their daughters and make statements like "don't ever hurt her" or "if he hits you, tell me and I'll kill him" (my dad uses that one).
All I hope is that Meghan's dad doesn't change how the RF feels or interacts with Meghan.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau

This was a stupid move by Tom Sr. Meghan and Harry have no reason to trust him now. And he took money for this interview, making him look as awful as Sam and Jr. Right after the interview Piers Morgan made a beeline to Daily Mail telling that Sr was paid thousands of pounds for the chat session. I bet Sr didn't count on that. I also bet Sr doesn't realize he's invited the media to really dig into his past now.

TMZ must be ticked off now . It was getting exclusives from Sr and now he turns on them. I bet TMZ is going to lead the charge to get dirt on him.

About the money paid for the interview. Its very possible that Mr. Markle realizes that he wasn't being paid to speak in an interview but that compensation for speaking is an acceptable form in the entertainment business. Having worked on TV shows, he'd most likely know that if anyone has a speaking part in anything televised, they are paid and compensated for it. Its kind of a "law of the land" kind of thing put into contracts.

This wasn't a "man on the street" interview where Tom Sr., was approached unaware of what was happening. Most likely, before anything went into production, it was talked over and a contract signed by both parties and the interview went ahead. What didn't happen was that Thomas Markle was prepared ahead of time of what questions were going to be asked and he didn't think of stating that there were areas he would refuse to comment on. He was not media savvy enough to control the interview and got blindsided quite a bit by that interview. Meghan, living for years in the land of sharks and pirhanas would have smelled them a mile away. Her father didn't. In this respect, I think Meghan would realize just how her father got a bit bamboozled into something that totally put him in a bad light and his words are getting twisted and turned into opposite meanings of what he was trying to say.

Mr. Magoo startled in the headlights. That still rings true for me.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Mr.+...b8Uv4j6YlnuoM:

[ACO]

Thomas Sr went to GMB and Piers Morgan, not the other way around. He not startled in any headlights. He knew exactly what he was doing and said as much. He was asked if Meghan and Harry told him to not talk to the media. He said yes. Then he was asked how he thinks Meghan and Harry would feel about this interview and he basically brushed it off. He planned this out. Piers confirmed this had been carefully plotted for days and they made sure KP never discovered it. They paid him. So I don't buy this naive, shell-shocked old man. He is as manipulative as his older children.

[Missjersey]

Originally Posted by ACO

I watched it and I don't agree with you. I see zero sweet about this man and frankly hardly have. I don't think he is any different than Samantha and Thomas Jr. He is just as shady and manipulative. He plays off this "Oh gee I am old man who doesn't know any better" but he does and he proves it when he does stuff like calls TMZ or Piers Morgan behind his daughter's back. Sorry. He doesn't fool me whatsoever.



Give me a break. He is a grown man. If his daughter asked him to respect her privacy and NOT talk to the press then do it. The fact he went against her wishes just proves how little he respects her. And that is enough of a reason for me to hope she walks away from him. Freedom of speech. Please. That is his excuse for betraying his daughter. Fascinating.

Agree with all you say ACO. I find his true colors quite ugly.

[MaiaMia_53]

The interview is clearly a mistake, but it happened. Hopefully under-the-radar measures will be taken to try and discreetly counsel Mr. Markle that he's being taken advantage of, and his speaking out is only hurting his image and hurting Meghan and Harry, instead of solving anything for anyone. Under normal circumstances, people who speak out in this manner are ostracized by the royals. This is a delicate situation because Meghan loves her father and he clearly loves her and respects and admires her new family, which he said many times during the interview. Still, all along M&H have probably been handling interactions with Mr. Markle carefully, especially knowing that the half siblings are in contact with him and may be influencing some of his poor decisions.

It should be quite obvious to anyone who actually listens to the interview that it was designed to 'get' Mr. Markle in any indiscretion they could capture. All the while, the hosts were at the same time trying to stroke Mr. Markle and bamboozle him with feigned praise.

The 'gotcha' parts of the interview are obviously being played up in the media, rather than the harmless and more interesting parts of the interview, including the love he feels for his daughter; the nickname he had for her during her childhood; the previously unseen family photos that were shown; how Meghan was helping her Dad prepare for the wedding; the chronology of his heart ailment interfering with the wedding plans; his tweaking reference to Markle family members 'coming out of the woodwork'; his love and respect for Doria and a reference to work being part of the reason why their marriage broke up; how he feels that Meghan has always been a princess; his reference as to why Meghan didn't invite any Markles being because of the clamoring by so many of them, which made Meghan feel the need to proceed with caution: thus, that's the reason she decided not to invite certain Markles she may have been planning to invite -- probably Ashleigh Hale was one who would have been invited.

Overall, we can see why the royals 'never complain, never explain,' and rarely mutter anything but pleasantries in public, aside from advocating for charitable causes, trying to be cautiously self-reflective now and again in the interest of being open and trying to help others, as well as making the odd humorous remark now and again. They can never win with this level of OTT attention and the 'gotcha' mentality of the ever more rampant and uncontrollable tabloids, which in many respects extends to mainstream media, royal reporters, and royal followers.

Prince Philip of course is a different story. He's always carried himself to the beat of a different drummer. But he's also known how to play the game within the lines. The Queen clearly has always respected his independence if not always his outspoken gruffness. In the case of Mr. Markle, I doubt anything will be said by BP or KP. I do hope Mr. Markle can somehow be helped to learn how to stop talking. But it occurs to me that Meghan may have always found it difficult to manage or predict the outcome of Markle family conflict.

ETA:
I agree with your take on the exchange of money @Osipi. Mr. Markle likely rarely agrees to accept money from his daughter. Yet ironically, it may be that he doesn't realize how taking money from these tabloids is harmful to his image, as it's rightly seen by many as trading off on his daughter's royal connections.

[Missjersey]

Originally Posted by Osipi

About the money paid for the interview. Its very possible that Mr. Markle realizes that he wasn't being paid to speak in an interview but that compensation for speaking is an acceptable form in the entertainment business. Having worked on TV shows, he'd most likely know that if anyone has a speaking part in anything televised, they are paid and compensated for it. Its kind of a "law of the land" kind of thing put into contracts.

This wasn't a "man on the street" interview where Tom Sr., was approached unaware of what was happening. Most likely, before anything went into production, it was talked over and a contract signed by both parties and the interview went ahead. What didn't happen was that Thomas Markle was prepared ahead of time of what questions were going to be asked and he didn't think of stating that there were areas he would refuse to comment on. He was not media savvy enough to control the interview and got blindsided quite a bit by that interview. Meghan, living for years in the land of sharks and pirhanas would have smelled them a mile away. Her father didn't. In this respect, I think Meghan would realize just how her father got a bit bamboozled into something that totally put him in a bad light and his words are getting twisted and turned into opposite meanings of what he was trying to say.

Mr. Magoo startled in the headlights. That still rings true for me.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Mr.+...b8Uv4j6YlnuoM:

Sorry Osipi, this time I disagree. For me, he was more than a willing participant.

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

The only way to deal with this is not to tell them anything and continue not to comment publicly. NDAs are only effective when people have something to loose. What do you think will happen once they go through whatever payout?

Excellent post jacqui24. Tom Sr., Tom Jr., and especially Samantha seem to have a reached a point in which they truly have "nothing to lose."



While I do believe that a face to face meeting with Meghan might possibly bring her father to realize how much this distresses her, the others have tossed caution to the wind a long time ago.

[Osipi]

I'm not saying that he wasn't a willing participant in all this. In fact, I've stated that he willingly walked into a tank of sharks of his own free will. He just didn't perceive the fact that blood would be drawn and that this is the worst contract he could ever have made.

As stated previously too, I think some people have to make the same mistakes quite a few times before the lessons sinks in.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

I for one felt Meghan shouldn't have talked to Vanity Fair either; to me it seemed tacky. IMO a royal gf or fiance should stay quiet no matter what until the engagement interview. Perhaps her dad thinks it's ok for him to talk because she talked.

I think the two aren’t on the same level. Meghan had obligations to be in front of the press as part of her job. Suits bosses have gone above and beyond to shield her from the press even while she had contractual obligations. But there is that elephant in the room here and it seemed that everyone agreed to a comprise in a controlled environment. The reality is she isn’t just an average royal girlfriend. She had a career that legitimately required her to be in front of the press.

[MaiaMia_53]

To all those with fierce anger toward Mr. Markle, I too previously held a negative view of him. Now, having seen him talking in person, I am able to be a bit less harsh in my judgment toward him. While the situation is clearly painful for Meghan, she wouldn't have put out the press release that she 'has always loved' her father, if a deep love doesn't still exist.

I'm sure she recognizes that he's ill-equipped to handle this unrelenting spotlight, but also she surely knows that he is not motivated by any kind of deceptive intent or ill-will toward her and Prince Harry. That's my impression, which doesn't mean I don't suspect that Meghan and Harry haven't always gone out of their way to be as careful as possible in their interactions with Mr. Markle, especially by this point.

I agree that any future interactions will likely be brief, discreet, as well as few and far between, unless something changes in Mr. Markle's understanding and in his behavior. Perhaps someone trustworthy who is skilled in interfamilial conflict can discreetly assist in being a go-between to help Mr. Markle with his clear inability to cope with what's required of him.