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  #261  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Isn’t there saying about it’s better to have your enemies on the inside shooting out, than on the outside shooting in? Something like that.
Nice as a saying, but that's about it. Some "truisms" make for horrible game plans in real life. This is one of those.
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  #262  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Reem View Post
But H&M had brought him into the fold plus pulled ranks when he complained about “media intrusion”... They offered practical help and everything else and yet how has he repaid them? Seems it’s a case of wanting to have his cake and eat it, at play here. And with all that’s happened recently do you honestly believe involving him further in royal life will prevent his daughter Sam & ladyfriend Lori getting information to feed off? He’s shown his true hand several times now, so what makes you think he can be trusted now, what’s changed? And even if royal family information is kept from him, sharing a public life with him will in essence legitimise whatever he says (true or false), and whenever he feels like it.
You are right they did pull him into the fold even with his shenanigans and calling TMZ. He did something to damage that, perhaps spilling information only shared with him as a test which led them to totally cut him off.

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  #263  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Cocoasneeze View Post
Deal with what? Mr Markle giving interviews? Harry is unable to control a grown adult man, especially a man he doesn't even know. This interview is Mr Markle's fault, the interviews other Markles have given are their fault, too.

And to say, that the palace should've done more. What exactly. They cant force people to follow their advice or take their help. That falls on Mr Markle as well.
I so agree with you 100%. All parties are adults. They have their own minds and will do whatever they feel will benefit them {where it should be benefit their daughter or sibling} and not themselves.

You have two ways to travel when bombarded by media {1} with class and dignity and honor as did the Middletons all those years. Just going about their daily life with a smile and no media interviews while they were hated for being "common" and social climbers by the jealous public because their daughter found her prince. Or {2} you can play the media to your benefit and milk it for thousands making up stories and elaborate on childhood events to suit your agenda. Sacrifice any class you have just looking for the cash-cow. Changing stories daily if one wasn't working to your benefit. Apparently Samantha and Tom Jr. took that route 100% and I believe pulled their naïve father into doing the same. But, it sure did backfire on them and now they are world's malicious ignorant jokes.

Meghan's lovely mother certainly had more class and dignity and it certainly shown brightly. The world noticed and Samantha still made reprehensible bizarre remarks about her. I guess you can't fix pathetic ignorance.

The Palace could NEVER have stopped this absurd family from mouthing off so they did the "right thing" and let them hang themselves while welcoming Meghan into their lives with a great smile. Good for the Royal Family. JMO
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  #264  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Why would an essentially a-political Prince of the United Kingdom of Britain & Northern Ireland need or want to 'take a position' on the character of a foreign President ??? Never mind EXPRESS it to an unreliable, 'motormouth' fool over the phone ?
I take the Trump comments as essentially neutral. You can say "give him a chance" without supporting Trump or his policies.
  #265  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Reem View Post
But H&M had brought him into the fold plus pulled ranks when he complained about “media intrusion”... They offered practical help and everything else and yet how has he repaid them? Seems it’s a case of wanting to have his cake and eat it, at play here. And with all that’s happened recently do you honestly believe involving him further in royal life will prevent his daughter Sam & ladyfriend Lori getting information to feed off? He’s shown his true hand several times now, so what makes you think he can be trusted now, what’s changed? And even if royal family information is kept from him, sharing a public life with him will in essence legitimise whatever he says (true or false), and whenever he feels like it.
How exactly was he 'brought into the fold'? I think it's pretty obvious he hasn't been included in much of anything, not even introduced to his new son-in-law. I'd say he's been excluded whereas Doria has been welcomed with open arms. How is he supposed to feel about that, and why should he give a fig what Meghan and her new family think of him? They've obviously already made up their mind about him not being worth the trouble and have left him flapping in the breeze to deal with everything himself.
  #266  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
How exactly was he 'brought into the fold'? I think it's pretty obvious he hasn't been included in much of anything, not even introduced to his new son-in-law. I'd say he's been excluded whereas Doria has been welcomed with open arms. How is he supposed to feel about that, and why should he give a fig what Meghan and her new family think of him? They've obviously already made up their mind about him not being worth the trouble and have left him flapping in the breeze to deal with everything himself.
Did you actually watch the interview? I am genuinely wondering, because he repeatedly stressed that both Meghan and Harry offered various forms of support and all aids he'd need to be included. Even leading up to the wedding he mentioned that he talked to them every day and that they and KP advised him about not talking to the press and how to handle the fallout from the staged picture fiasco. He said he didn't want to accept their help and repeatedly choose to go against their advise - even now when being told that Meghan would be very hurt by this interview - he said that he'd have to do it to make people believe that he really had an emergency heart OP - and that he hoped that Meghan will I understand that he knows what he has to do for himself.

I don't think Thomas deliberate sets out to hurt Meghan, but he proved time and time again and now even flatout said it in so many words, the he doesn't care if what benefits him hurts Meghan in the process. Parental support with an asterisk - a truly beautiful things, isn't.
  #267  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
How exactly was he 'brought into the fold'? I think it's pretty obvious he hasn't been included in much of anything, not even introduced to his new son-in-law. I'd say he's been excluded whereas Doria has been welcomed with open arms. How is he supposed to feel about that, and why should he give a fig what Meghan and her new family think of him? They've obviously already made up their mind about him not being worth the trouble and have left him flapping in the breeze to deal with everything himself.
He has known things that others who aren't in the fold knows. While he doesn't visit in person, it is clear that there is regular conversations going on based on how he was told about who his daughter was dating. And he has said that they've made arrangements for fittings multiple times in LA as they did for Doria I'm sure since she wasn't in London. A lot of things I wish he hasn't said because they clearly went to great pains to conceal it and keep it private so that the media wouldn't get wind of it. Now they all know how they do this.

Meghan might not be having girl talks with him, but it doesn't seem like he wasn't part of the process. There are just some things relating to weddings and relationships and such that mothers are typically more involved in. Add onto the fact that Tom Markle doesn't seem to do a lot of travelling where Doria do travel to see her daughter with or without Harry. And I'm not blaming him for it since I do understand travelling gets more difficult with age and obviously health place a part in it. They talked about going to see him even after his photogate situation, but he's the one that said no. Just like Doria didn't spend weeks on end in London for her daughter's wedding. She spent just a few days in London for it. I'm sure if she wanted to spend longer, Meghan and Harry wouldn't have issues with it. But these are people with their own lives.

I'm not sure why people insist on making it seem like poor old Thomas Markle was left to his own devices and abandoned by his daughter. He told TMZ that his daughter called him as soon as she heard about him not going to her wedding FROM TMZ. After having always included him as part of the wedding plans. She still wanted him to come even after that fiasco. I'm not sure how ANYONE can consider that to be anything other than extremely inclusive. He was the one that wasn't talking to her about it and just announcing it to the world. Just like what's happened here. So if anyone is getting cut out of the process in the family, it's Meghan. Done by the hands of her father. He said he was offered support himself. He just chose to go a different way in handling it.

Even in the media, I don't understand why people keep saying KP or Harry need to do more. The one thing I DIDN'T hear Tom Markle say is that he felt like he wasn't given adequate support from KP or Harry. He simply didn't like how he was portrayed in the media, which is NOT within Harry's control. Believe it or not, the BRF isn't the all powerful that can just swoop in and take over people's lives without consent.

And really, why a father should care what his daughter, whom he's claiming to love, thinks of him?
  #268  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:54 AM
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I'm genuinely curious what posters who think the Markles--Tom Sr included--should have been "brought into the fold" think H&M and the BRF should have done, and how that would have played out.

Nowhere in the excruciatingly painful lead up to the wedding, and especially since Tom Sr's recent interview, have I seen any evidence at all that the Markle clan are reasonable or logical people. I don't see how there could be any expectation at all that they would suddenly learn to be discreet. What I have seen over and over again is that if there is any benefit to them at all, they will blather on and on, and are willing to say anything that will give them either attention or cash, preferably both. Samantha is toxic on an epic level, and Tom Sr. is at best sad and clueless, at worst venal, but either way, not someone I would trust with any private information.

It's easy to talk about "but, family!" but I've seen some unbelievably toxic family dynamics, and I think that's what we have here. For people who are that toxic, the best thing you can do is cut them off, and I think that's what we're seeing play out in a very public way..
  #269  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:56 AM
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As far as I understand, from various sources, Mr Markle himself, Samantha etc, he has been offered the sane amount of help and guidance, as well as the same welcome, as Doria has been. Mr Markle declined. He declined Meghan and Harry's offers to come to meet him. That's on him. He cannot be forced to be part of Meghan's family.

As for why should he care about what Meghan thinks, or I he hurts her. He's her father, that's why he should care. The shouldn't be any other reasons or conditions.
  #270  
Old 06-20-2018, 01:02 PM
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I am definitely going to have to find myself a cheap copy of "My Fair Lady" on DVD here soon as this week has brought that movie into my head. First with Meghan's hat at Ascot and now remembering Eliza Doolittle's dad in the movie. A girl makes good and all kinds of worms come out of the woodwork claiming entitlement. Sound familiar?

All of this has to be extremely hard on Meghan. She went for years in Canada as a character actress in a popular TV show and her "family" were pretty much living their own lives too. In different countries even. No problems. Because of a very high profile romance and eventual marriage, everyone and their pet cockatoo seems to want a slice of the high profile attention. Some blatantly are toxic and have proven time and time again that they have no standing whatsoever in Meghan's life. Her father, who I am finding quite difficult to actually figure out, in handling things "his own way", is driving a wedge even deeper into the land of estrangement from his daughter. Regardless of his intentions or his motives, its what he's doing and I think he's eventually going to have a grand awakening that his actions and words have totally destroyed whatever "image" he was vehemently trying to set straight. He'll have plenty of green dollars to buy Big Macs but in the end, all contact with his daughter will be a strained one if there is even any contact at all.

We've discussed since Day One all that Meghan has had to give up with falling in love with and marrying her Harry but I don't think that any one of us at the time would have thought that one of the losses would have had to be her father. This has to be extremely hard on Meghan and as someone has pointed out, could really be a big fly in the ointment for a new marriage if the love and compassion and caring between the new husband and wife wasn't as strong as it seems to be. When the chips are down, it does seem that Meghan has the total support of her Harry and his entire family behind her to lean on and comfort her and make her feel that she belongs and is welcome. To me, that's the best support system anyone could ask for at a time like this.

Tom Sr. or Samantha or Tom Jr. or any of the Markles aren't the victims in this scenario at all and the sharks that are in the media are doing what they do best. The person being victimized the most, and by her own family, is Meghan herself. Together, Meghan and Harry will get through this and come out on the other end even stronger and more united than ever and will forge forward into a happy married life together. The Markles? To be honest, who cares where they end up or what happens? They're working their way into being a "footnote in history" that no one will care to really remember.
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  #271  
Old 06-20-2018, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
All of this has to be extremely hard on Meghan. She went for years in Canada as a character actress in a popular TV show and her "family" were pretty much living their own lives too. In different countries even. No problems. Because of a very high profile romance and eventual marriage, everyone and their pet cockatoo seems to want a slice of the high profile attention. Some blatantly are toxic and have proven time and time again that they have no standing whatsoever in Meghan's life. Her father, who I am finding quite difficult to actually figure out, in handling things "his own way", is driving a wedge even deeper into the land of estrangement from his daughter. Regardless of his intentions or his motives, its what he's doing and I think he's eventually going to have a grand awakening that his actions and words have totally destroyed whatever "image" he was vehemently trying to set straight. He'll have plenty of green dollars to buy Big Macs but in the end, all contact with his daughter will be a strained one if there is even any contact at all.

We've discussed since Day One all that Meghan has had to give up with falling in love with and marrying her Harry but I don't think that any one of us at the time would have thought that one of the losses would have had to be her father. This has to be extremely hard on Meghan and as someone has pointed out, could really be a big fly in the ointment for a new marriage if the love and compassion and caring between the new husband and wife wasn't as strong as it seems to be. When the chips are down, it does seem that Meghan has the total support of her Harry and his entire family behind her to lean on and comfort her and make her feel that she belongs and is welcome. To me, that's the best support system anyone could ask for at a time like this.

Tom Sr. or Samantha or Tom Jr. or any of the Markles aren't the victims in this scenario at all and the sharks that are in the media are doing what they do best. The person being victimized the most, and by her own family, is Meghan herself. Together, Meghan and Harry will get through this and come out on the other end even stronger and more united than ever and will forge forward into a happy married life together. The Markles? To be honest, who cares where they end up or what happens? They're working their way into being a "footnote in history" that no one will care to really remember.
This right there. Ultimately, I find all the peripheral members of the family to be irrelevant. People wouldn't notice if they disappeared off the face of Earth tomorrow (well, they might notice, but how many would really care?). Ultimately, there is a couple at the center of this. As Harry talked about in November 2016, this isn't a game, it's their lives. We talk about everyone else's feelings or what they must be thinking here, but ultimately these people are not in the center of the storm like Harry and Meghan who really is damned if they do and damned if they don't. These two people are just trying to find some happiness in this world and navigate this complicated situation the best they can. I'm sure there is a lot of perks and good things with it, but my goodness, it's a lot on a marriage. It's a good thing that they do seem to have the us against the world and understand how important them being a team is.
  #272  
Old 06-20-2018, 01:49 PM
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Tom Sr. has chosen to live alone in kind of a solitary existence where he bothers no one and no one bothers him and life goes on. Being thrown into the public limelight (and a royal public limelight at that), to me, is comparable to waking up in an alternate, parallel universe where the people and the rules of the game and events are totally foreign and baffling to say the least. He's made bad decisions on how to handle things, didn't take advice or the help that was offered to him proudly feeling that he can "handle it himself" and blindly falling down even more rabbit holes where things are even more confusing. Its definitely not working out for Tom Sr. regardless of what he does.

To every action there is a reaction and without guidance, its extremely hard to guarantee what reactions will be. The hardest thing ever to admit is that one needs help dealing with something and in Tom's case, I think his pride prevented that. It could happen to any one of us at any time.
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  #273  
Old 06-20-2018, 02:08 PM
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I've had to delete and edit quite a few posts because of unfounded accusations and defamatory comments about Meghan's family. It seems some have not read the rules of the thread. Please take a moment to do so. You can read them here.
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  #274  
Old 06-20-2018, 02:09 PM
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Mr Markle is clearly a man of befuddled parts. I do think he has intentions that can get switched around easily by talking to certain other parties. He did comment that family members need to stay quiet, and he did have a heart episode which indicates he has deep feelings.

We'll never know except that Meghan seems to have been deeply hurt by her father some time during her adolescence, perhaps with the arrival of Samantha into the household?

In the end it all worked out for the best: Meghan got walked down the aisle by Prince Charles. Now Meghan knows that she cannot depend on her father at all, though we can guess that she must have known something given that she never managed a face-to-face meeting with her father and Harry (that was always curious) and given that Doria never seemed to be involved with chatting with Tom Sr (tho maybe she was).

Whatever the family situation I think Meghan shows that with the right partner anything can be bourne. Never let family determine your future. Never let family be the yardstick by which you are judged.
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  #275  
Old 06-20-2018, 02:18 PM
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Hopefully now the father will realize this is not the life for him. There are more benign ways to sell out his daughter like selling childhood pictures without being manipulated into setting up narrative the way he did with Piers.

As for Harry and Meghan it seems that the outrage cycle for these stories is getting shorter. People want fun news and the royals provide an escape from the awful political climate.
  #276  
Old 06-20-2018, 03:53 PM
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What I've noticed too is that with one interview by Tom Sr., other outlets have picked up various sound bites from said interview and are running stories that fit their own narrative. Its what the media does.
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  #277  
Old 06-20-2018, 04:30 PM
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I can't imagine how horribly embarrassing all this has been for Meghan.
No doubt she has strengthened her resolve and feelings over many years of dissappointments engineered by her family.
But soon god willing she will be pregnant and these sort of upsets will be very emotionally tough for her.
Will her family care or give a damn? Doesn't look like it.
I can imagine Harry wanting to keep her insulated during her pregnancy from the negative Markle family stuff. This will be a good test for the BRF to cocoon Meghan in emotional support.
  #278  
Old 06-20-2018, 05:05 PM
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Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I'm coming to realize that just the blatant "bullying" and "manipulation" and what ever adjective we could possibly apply to the Markle family, it is putting it out front and center another aspect where the focus on mental health and coping and dealing with problems we face in our world today is so important. It can and does happen to anyone at any time from any walk of life as we're witnessing right now.

Its something that should never have happened especially to a brand new married couple but this is a platform we're actively getting to watch and actively get to see and witness the healthy way to deal with something and the not so healthy ways and their repercussions.

Heads Together was not only a great idea but things happen that put the work that these royals are doing in the mental health aspect of their focus being a serious issue in the limelight. We're witnessing first hand how Meghan, Harry and his entire family is being supportive of Meghan and being the epitome of "keep calm and carry on".
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  #279  
Old 06-20-2018, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlowVera View Post
Hopefully now the father will realize this is not the life for him. There are more benign ways to sell out his daughter like selling childhood pictures without being manipulated into setting up narrative the way he did with Piers.

As for Harry and Meghan it seems that the outrage cycle for these stories is getting shorter. People want fun news and the royals provide an escape from the awful political climate.

And I see with a light amusement that the tabloids prefer to call Meghan "The Duchess" or "The Duchess of Sussex" and not longer Meghan Markle. Unlike Catherine who is often called Kate Middleton still or Camilla who will be forever Camilla P-B. Probably because Meghan as Meghan Markle was not long on the stage and now the media/public is not really interested in Meghan's past when her newsworthyness is based on the fact that she is Harry's duchess.
  #280  
Old 06-20-2018, 05:45 PM
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Yes, this does shine a further light on mental health awareness. And, also- a reminder to almost all of us that we may have to deal with the needs of elderly parents eventually. Raising kids is hard, but you do it when you’re younger. Sometimes “young elderly” children become responsible for their truly elderly parents, and it can be difficult for all concerned. I hope Mr. Markle can regain a calm equanimity in his life, and that Harry and Meghan can concentrate on what’s important in theirs.
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