The Duchess of Sussex: Family and Background

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

That seems like a lot of work, when someone could just give you the information and you are assured it is accurate. Also there is a lot of chaff mixed in with the grain on Google. It takes a bit to figure out which is which at times.

Many of us here have had an interest in royalty for a long time--we have a different perspective than most.

I was being generous by saying a few hours, I honestly think it’d be quicker than that. Plus, if your DAUGHTER is marrying into the institution, it’s not a lot of work. It’s different when it’s a complete stranger, obviously. But given that Doria seems to have a good grasp despite being American, support was provided. Maybe not down to every detail, but is that really necessary to get an overview?

[O-H Anglophile]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

I was being generous by saying a few hours, I honestly think it’d be quicker than that. Plus, if your DAUGHTER is marrying into the institution, it’s not a lot of work. It’s different when it’s a complete stranger, obviously. But given that Doria seems to have a good grasp despite being American, support was provided. Maybe not down to every detail, but is that really necessary to get an overview?

Why are you arguing with me then?

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

I think Doria did get some help learning about the BRF and Meghan's new life, same as they offered Tom Sr--but she didn't refuse the information like he did.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

Why are you arguing with me then?

My point was that, despite whatever help was offered or not offered or taken or not taken, it’s not that hard no matter what.

[MARG]

You know, I think it is just plain old hard work and good manners that make Doria who she is today. Her family's behaviour leads one to expect that was how she was raised and she raised her own daughter accordingly.

Yes, it seems that Snr wants to overlook the fact that he was invited and being an angina sufferer and having three stents myself, I have to wonder about the exact nature of the "heart attack" which he said Jnr had brought on by his open letter to Harry. While it is true that stress can impact the heart, his own behaviour then and now make me believe otherwise.

IMO he was too ashamed to show his face after getting caught dead to rights! I also think he totally underestimated the significance of Meghan marrying into the BRF and totally underestimate the UK itself, as shown by one of his nephews being caught with a knife by a bouncer when trying to enter a nightclub. His excuse was that President Trump said that London was a war zone.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by MARG

You know, I think it is just plain old hard work and good manners that make Doria who she is today. Her family's behaviour leads one to expect that was how she was raised and she raised her own daughter accordingly.

Right. I mean at the end of day, whether a family is close or not isn’t about right or wrong. Sometimes it’s about personalities, sometimes it’s environmental conditions, and so on, but at the end of the day, this is about decency. You don’t have to be close to extend decency and not to behave like you are spoiled and entitled. Behaving in a vindictive manner isn’t about Meghan, but Samantha and the Toms. Sometimes family just aren’t that close, it’s not anything new or shocking. There was no need for the press to make a scandal that Meghan isn’t close to her much older half siblings, especially when it was known that they haven’t bothered to be in Meghan’s life for years until Harry came into the picture.

[M. Payton]

But then again when has Sr been thinking of Meghan's first or her happiness, this has all been about him, his ego ], his image, his place in history, his wanting to be treated like Trump, his wanting to met HM and so on.......does he even remember his daughter in all this .......do not think so!

[Lady Reem]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

Well, it really is Samantha and the two Toms. that are the real bad apples. We've heard almost nothing from Noel, nothing from Ashleigh and Christopher and just a bit from one uncle--nothing like the stuff her step-siblings and dad are spewing.

But this isn’t about the Hale’s who were brought up by their dad and grandparents, a completely different family, IS IT ?!

And no it isn’t just about Sammy, Tommy or Pa Markle either. Or as you claim, just - “a bit from one uncle”. That Markle uncle has whined to the newspapers about wedding invitations on three separate occasions now (the latest rant just recently) so it is hardly “just a bit”... There appears to be a pattern of writing begging letters to the royal palaces from that paternal side, too. His daughter Thomas Markle Sr’ niece (like Tom Jr.) also sent a begging letter via the Palace to Prince Harry at one point. And like her dad (another Markle ) - whined to a rag about wedding invitations. It would seem there is a behavioural trait somewhere.

Meghan's uncle, 78, says he was deeply hurt by being excluded from her wedding | Daily Mail Online

https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal...y-Prince-Harry

More close family are left off Meghan Markle's wedding guest list | Daily Mail Online

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...-dont-12364121

Michael, a former US government worker who helped secure Meghan a college internship in Argentina, added: “I don’t know what the hell is going on.

“But someone has to get through and find out if Meghan is turning these letters away or what...

[MaiaMia_53]

@Lady Reem, I believe O-H Anglophile might be referring to Meghan's Uncle Joseph Johnson (her mother's older half-brother) who sold pictures and family information to the Daily Fail. Her Uncle Joseph at least had positive things to say, and he's said nothing else since that I'm aware of. He also waited until after the engagement announcement before speaking out -- perhaps he got more money by waiting till a marriage was ensured and interest was ratcheted up. He may also have not wanted to say anything sooner so as not to do anything that might be seen as harming his niece's relationship during the courtship stage. Uncle Joseph clearly indicated he didn't expect to be invited to the wedding.

The articles about the Markle uncle, who used to be a government worker, complaining peevishly about not being invited to the royal wedding, was discussed some pages earlier in this thread. He'd spoken out before too in the lead-up to the royal wedding.

At this point, I'm not sure how many brothers Tom Snr has. Is it two or three? In any case, it's been said that one of the brothers, apparently Michael Markle (the former government employee), revealed Tom Snr's Mexico location to the tabloids for money. I'm very skeptical that Meghan was ever close to anyone on the Markle side of the family, aside from being around Tom Jr's kids for a time when she was in her pre-teen and early teen years. There are pictures and videos of Meghan posing with her Dad and Tom Jr's sons when they were young. At some point, Tom Jr split with his wife and he also became estranged from his Dad.

I would imagine that things began to fray more-so in terms of close connections after Tom Sr's mother died. The fact that Michael Markle put in a word for Meghan in support of the diplomatic internship in Argentina does not mean he created her success in life, or that he in fact 'contributed so much to her life.' Meghan is very bright and she was accepted to attend one of the top universities in the U.S. By Michael having simply put in a word for Meghan to be considered for the college internship in Argentina wouldn't have meant much unless she was qualified and capable of performing the required duties, which she clearly was.

What Michael claims is nearly as bad as what Tom Snr has been whining about. Meghan's father did what any loving, responsible father should do in supporting and encouraging his daughter. But it's Meghan who worked hard, scrapping and going on auditions and interviews, and studying and practicing her lines, and never giving up when the going was tough. Meghan made her own success and she created her own career by applying herself, believing in herself, taking advantage of her opportunities, and being savvy about making connections and embracing her life head on with focused goals and positive energy.

The ongoing Markle dribble-drabble is tiresome and ridiculously transparent. They need to stop the shameless whining and putrid whinging. I'm not going to read the full DF rehashes. What's wrong with Tom Sr's relatives??? Why do they feel like Meghan even owes them the time of day! They are pitiful for stooping to write pleading, self-important letters in the first place. They do not own Meghan. They have no claims on her whatsoever. If they possessed common sense, they would have just sent her congratulations and gotten on with their lives, without even expecting to necessarily hear anything back from her! She's had no contact with any of them for years.

It seems to me that there was never any love lost between these Markles and Tom Snr's youngest daughter whose mother is African-American. I suspect that all of them looked down their noses at Meghan in the first place in a condescending way when she was growing up. It's the height of condescension in fact for any of them to suggest that someone needs to find out if Meghan is 'turning their letters away.' It's so foolish and beyond incredulity that they think the young girl they probably used to look down on, now needs to somehow include them in her new life with one of the most famous families in the world. The Markles have mind-boggling nerve.

[Tarlita]

Is it strange or even odd that not One friend or acquaintance of Senior has spoken in defense of him on TMZ or twitter or whatever. Where are his supporters? Saying what a great guy he is? There are none willing to speak out it appears.
Possibly says it all hey. Surely there should be someone who knows him well to say publicly, "Hey this is a great guy!". The silence is deafening.
Or i could be wrong and people don't do those things these days.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Tarlita

Is it strange or even odd that not One friend or acquaintance of Senior has spoken in defense of him on TMZ or twitter or whatever. Where are his supporters? Saying what a great guy he is? There are none willing to speak out it appears.
Possibly says it all hey. Surely there should be someone who knows him well to say publicly, "Hey this is a great guy!". The silence is deafening.
Or i could be wrong and people don't do those things these days.

Oh, they haven't found the time yet. Most have gone bowling. Two simply had to attend an aunts 57th birthday festivities, lasting days - weeks actually. And the last one is nursing his neighbors sick canary.

[Dalriada]

Originally Posted by Lady Reem

But this isn’t about the Hale’s who were brought up by their dad and grandparents, a completely different family, IS IT ?!

And no it isn’t just about Sammy, Tommy or Pa Markle either. Or as you claim, just - “a bit from one uncle”. That Markle uncle has whined to the newspapers about wedding invitations on three separate occasions now (the latest rant just recently) so it is hardly “just a bit”... There appears to be a pattern of writing begging letters to the royal palaces from that paternal side, too. His daughter Thomas Markle Sr’ niece (like Tom Jr.) also sent a begging letter via the Palace to Prince Harry at one point. And like her dad (another Markle ) - whined to a rag about wedding invitations. It would seem there is a behavioural trait somewhere.

Meghan's uncle, 78, says he was deeply hurt by being excluded from her wedding | Daily Mail Online

https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal...y-Prince-Harry

More close family are left off Meghan Markle's wedding guest list | Daily Mail Online

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...-dont-12364121

This daily attrition against the RF is unprecedented since the “war of the Wales’” Another Markle story trashing the RF only serves to bolster support for Meghan from a minority and clouds the view further for the majority in the UK. The other minority who are republican will milk this soap opera.

[Tarlita]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Oh, they haven't found the time yet. Most have gone bowling. Two simply had to attend an aunts 57th birthday festivities, lasting days - weeks actually. And the last one is nursing his neighbors sick canary.

Oh so that's what has happened. Well then - in that case ...

Thanks for the update Muhler. Knew i could always rely on you.

[MaiaMia_53]

Originally Posted by Dalriada

This daily attrition against the RF is unprecedented since the “war of the Wales’” Another Markle story trashing the RF only serves to bolster support for Meghan from a minority and clouds the view further for the majority in the UK. The other minority who are republican will milk this soap opera.

Well, the tabloids are definitely not in let-up mode. If possible, the tabs especially in conjunction with the age of the Internet, are even worse than during the 1980s and 1990s (particularly with completely made-up stories).

At some point, hopefully, the tabloids will be taken to task to stop aiding and abetting. Hopefully, the Markle uncle and the half-siblings will dry up with their whinging angles since no one in the royal family is ever going to respond to them.

Markle Snr is another story entirely, as Meghan's formerly loving father. I don't think Meghan will make any attempt to contact him while he continues to publicly whine and badger her via the tabloids. Perhaps if her father finally decides to shut up, maybe then an attempt might be made by Meghan to reconnect with him out of familial courtesy sometime down the road, but only under the condition that he never speak to the press ever again. If her father breaks confidence again, it's got to be over. In fact, with the latest Markle Snr diatribe, there's every reason to believe it's already over.

Meghan has been placed in an impossible situation by her father. As others have said in this thread, there's no way in the world that Meghan (and especially not Harry and the royals) should be blamed for somehow not having 'brought Markle Snr into the fold sooner.' We don't actually know anything about what measures Harry and Meghan took to maintain communication with Markle Snr during their courtship. Surely, he was offered an opportunity to meet Harry privately before the engagement was announced. I get the sense that Markle Snr refused their possible offers to bring him to London, or to visit with him secretly somewhere in private. Certainly, we do know that Harry and Meghan made every effort to include Markle Snr in the wedding. Apparently, he rebuffed their offers to bring him to London in advance of the wedding. From the things Markle Snr has said to the media, it appears that he may at some point have been trying to get Meghan to make up with her sister and to invite other Markle family members, which is clearly not something that should have been presented as a condition for his attendance, if indeed he made that proviso.

Surely Meghan has been disappointed by her father on a number of occasions, so she must have been particularly anxious about how he would ultimately respond in regard to attending the wedding. I believe Samantha eventually got her hooks into her father and influenced him to cooperate with the pap/tab photographer for the posed pics. And once Markle Snr lied to Prince Harry about that, it was the beginning of the end for any close relationship between Meghan and her father to be viable. He's being abusive in his dealings toward Meghan and the royals, and that can not be tolerated.

[MaiaMia_53]

Here are takes regarding Markle Snr by royal reporter Melanie Bromley on Access, and by Omid Mio Scobie on Good Morning America:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGEA2LquSnQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ll4vlXRCks

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Tarlita

Is it strange or even odd that not One friend or acquaintance of Senior has spoken in defense of him on TMZ or twitter or whatever. Where are his supporters? Saying what a great guy he is? There are none willing to speak out it appears.
Possibly says it all hey. Surely there should be someone who knows him well to say publicly, "Hey this is a great guy!". The silence is deafening.
Or i could be wrong and people don't do those things these days.

That’s actually not true. Some have, most prominently Nancy Lee Grahn, who is a long time actress on GH. She didn’t actually realize Meghan and Tom’s connection until a few days before the wedding. And posted it about it. Meghan’s teachers did also speak highly of him based on the time he spent volunteering while Meghan was there. Which is why I believe this is might not be an evil man, but very foolish and is easily convinced by whoever he feels is on his side.

[MaiaMia_53]

Do you mean 'on his sad side.'

ETA:
Okay, I see you made the correction...

[Fros]

But a man is able to be foolish but not cruel. If he was just babbler nonsense that's different but we've heard him say thing that are just plain abusive.

It's important to note that even from Meghan's words that there are some redeeming qualities about him and he had his good moments growing up like most people but when comes down to it he's shown he is willing to throw his daughter, her new family and his ex-wife under the bus to help bolster his image that's more important to him above his daughter's well being and happiness.

Let's not baby and coddle this fully grown man.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53

Do you mean 'on his sad side.'

Just whoever is on his side.

Originally Posted by Fros

But a man is able to be foolish but not cruel. If he was just babbler nonsense that's different but we've heard him say thing that are just plain abusive.

It's important to note that even from Meghan's words that there are some redeeming qualities about him and he had his good moments growing up like most people he probably but when comes down to it he's shown he is willing to throw his daughter, her new family and his ex-wife under the bus to help bolster his image that's more important to him above his daughter's well being and happiness.

Let's not baby and coddle this fully grown man.

I’ve never babied or coddled him or any of his actions. In fact, I’m be always held him responsible for his actions and not blame it on any peripherals like Samantha as some here have done. Yes, she might be manipulative, but he chose to be manipulated and go with her way of handling things. OTOH, the statement about him that I quoted wasn’t true. And my opinion remains that this is a man that has a fragile ego and foolish. I didn’t say what he did was not abuse. The intention is irrelevant in abuse cases, it’s the action.

[Zaira]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

That’s actually not true. Some have, most prominently Nancy Lee Grahn, who is a long time actress on GH. She didn’t actually realize Meghan and Tom’s connection until a few days before the wedding. And posted it about it. Meghan’s teachers did also speak highly of him based on the time he spent volunteering while Meghan was there. Which is why I believe this is might not be an evil man, but very foolish and is easily convinced by whoever he feels is on his side.

I do not think he is evil per se, but I do not believe he is simply foolish either. IMO, he has moved into the malicious category and I have long believed, since the TMZ shenanigans, his actions are intentional with a full awareness of how they hurt Meghan---and I think that is the rub. He knows he is hurting his daughter both personally and in the eyes of the public and that gives him the power I think he craves over his newly high and mighty daughter.

A simply foolish person would not be saying the things he has been saying about Meghan and Harry or using the dog whistles he has against Meghan AND Doria.

No, Tom Sr has well moved beyond the point where he is simply a foolish man easily led astray. Perhaps if things had stopped at the staged pap pictures that label would be apt. But he has since shown an intentionality and cruelty that IMO implies more. He may well have been a decent father at times. Meghan seems to have valued his love and contributions, but I also do not think his actions of late are an anomaly.

[jacqui24]

I would say I didn’t find his actions before the GMB or even the GMB interview to be malicious. Selfish definitely. I did feel that the way he was viewed seemed overtly important to him when you consider that his daughter is getting married and starting a new life where she’s scrutinized for everything from head to toe. It was after that when he realized he’s only messed up more and made the situation far worse for himself with his daughter that he started lashing out. Unfortunately, he’s the type that will not have boundaries when he is lashing out. I don’t think any of this is about Meghan for him, but himself and how he feels like he’s being treated versus how he feels like he should be treated. He keeps trying to get a reaction from them and want them to grovel to him, but he definitely fails at thinking about things from another’s perspective in getting what he wants.