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  #5841  
Old 05-22-2017, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
As his consort she'll be bound by protocol and culture to walk two steps behind him and address him as "Sir" in public and in front of others at events.

As the wife of someone who has been moved down to fifth in line, hse will have to defer to HM, Charles, Camilla, William, and Kate; likely to the two York princesses who are born blood princesses and are thus higher in rank.

This is not a world or culture based on equality and I do believe that it is something that Meg might in fact have serious problems adjusting to.

The "equal partner" comment was made (I believe) in reference to a "what if Harry and Meghan don't marry" type scenario - would Meghan as long term unmarried partner of Harry be equal to Meghan as wife of Harry? Which of course, the answer is no.

That said, the protocol you say exists for the spouse of a royal... I don't think it exists. We don't see Kate deliberately walking behind William - or Camilla going so with Charles, or Sophie with Edward, or the DoE with the Queen. I mean, yes, the spouses let the royal do any greetings first, but after that they tend to be walking with their spouse, not behind them. And I don't think we've ever once seen Kate, Camilla, Sophie, or the DoE refer to their spouse as sir/ma'am while in public.
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  #5842  
Old 05-22-2017, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by USRoyalWatcher View Post
I think this is an interesting idea. However, it's not practical for the BRF. If the partner plan could have occurred, I think Charles and Camilla would stayed unmarried. Of course that was years ago, but I think the same rules apply. Long-term relationships in the BRF should occur within marriage. So, I think Harry and Meghan will likely get engaged by the end of the year (or beginning of next year) or go their separate ways. Just my opinion.

I don't think Charles wanted the partner plan, and that's why it didn't happen there - well, not forever, as he and Camilla were together and unmarried to others for about 10 years before they married.

I do often think Andrew and Sarah have somewhat of a partner plan going on now - I'm not certain that they're monogamous, but I certainly think they're "together" in a way that works for them, without them being married (again).

There are others in the family I could see having somewhat of a partner plan as well - neither Beatrice nor Eugenie seem in a rush to get married, and while Beatrice is now single, Eugenie has been with Jack for six years or so.

And of course looking into history, the sons of George III were somewhat notorious for avoiding marriage and having long term relationships with women their father wouldn't let them marry.
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  #5843  
Old 05-22-2017, 11:50 AM
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After watching royal girlfriends all these years...I think it's safe to say it's not easy being a royal girlfriend. With being married in the royal gilded cage, there's still more freedom than being the royal girlfriend.
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  #5844  
Old 05-22-2017, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
The "equal partner" comment was made (I believe) in reference to a "what if Harry and Meghan don't marry" type scenario - would Meghan as long term unmarried partner of Harry be equal to Meghan as wife of Harry? Which of course, the answer is no.

That said, the protocol you say exists for the spouse of a royal... I don't think it exists. We don't see Kate deliberately walking behind William - or Camilla going so with Charles, or Sophie with Edward, or the DoE with the Queen. I mean, yes, the spouses let the royal do any greetings first, but after that they tend to be walking with their spouse, not behind them. And I don't think we've ever once seen Kate, Camilla, Sophie, or the DoE refer to their spouse as sir/ma'am while in public.
Bit in bold: that's exactly what I meant, you explained it much better. Thank you!

Lainey Imo, again, is absolutely correct with this article.
Meghan Markle kept a low profile at Pippa's wedding with Prince Harry
  #5845  
Old 05-22-2017, 12:54 PM
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To a certain extent, I think the questions about whether Pippa invited Meghan to the ceremony or if anyone was concerned about upstaging are a little bit beside the point. Quite frankly, I just don't think Harry and Meghan seem to be quite ready for an outing where they're properly photographed in a somewhat formal capacity.

What we've seen from them so far, photo wise:
-One or the other alone, totally ignoring cameras, in casual/everyday mode but in places where he/she would only be if visiting the other (Meghan coming back to KP with groceries, Meghan at the airport, Harry arriving at her home in Toronto)
-The pair together, holding hands, but still dressed quite casually in an everyday sort of mode, not hiding but not seeming fully inviting of the attention from the photographers (headed to or from entertainment in London)
-grainy, long-lens shots of them at the wedding in Jamaica (which seem to have been higher quality photos than the pair assumed would be possible for paparazzi to get at that venue) or kissing between cars at the polo match
-a single instance of Meghan dressing up to participate in a Harry-related social event, but without Harry

Things are ramping up, but given the pace they seem to have chosen, I wouldn't find it at all surprising if they weren't quite ready for the next step up in embracing the press until Meghan's had a few more solo photo ops like the one on the viewing stand at the polo match.

Seeing now just how close Pippa decided to let the photo gaggle get and how many clear, close shots they managed to get of wedding guests of interest, it just seems to me that it would have been skipping ahead a little in terms of Harry and Meghan's tightly controlled dance with the press.
  #5846  
Old 05-22-2017, 01:04 PM
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The more I've read, the more I'm coming to realize that whether or not Meghan was invited to the wedding ceremony isn't really pointing to anything because, when we think about it, there were other people that James and Pippa invited to the evening party and not the actual ceremony. Does attending only the evening party make a guest less important than those that attended the ceremony? I don't think so.

We've seen the interior of the church and we've seen the size of the glass structure set up for the party. Its obvious to me that the size of the crowds for each event was different.

Meghan wasn't being singled out nor was she anything else than someone that Pippa and James invited, along with other people they wanted to be there, to the larger evening party.

We will never know the particulars of the ins and outs and the whys and wherefores of how the day actually went and I'd just like to think that everything went very smoothly and it was the perfect day and the perfect wedding for Pippa and James. In the long run, that actually is all that matters.
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  #5847  
Old 05-22-2017, 01:08 PM
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If it is true that Meghan didn't go to the wedding to avoid upstaging the bride, then it would sound to me like a very arrogant assumption on Meghan's part and a very rude thing to do, especially if her reasons for not going were leaked to press. I doubt that is true though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
To a certain extent, I think the questions about whether Pippa invited Meghan to the ceremony or if anyone was concerned about upstaging are a little bit beside the point. Quite frankly, I just don't think Harry and Meghan seem to be quite ready for an outing where they're properly photographed in a somewhat formal capacity.

What we've seen from them so far, photo wise:
-One or the other alone, totally ignoring cameras, in casual/everyday mode but in places where he/she would only be if visiting the other (Meghan coming back to KP with groceries, Meghan at the airport, Harry arriving at her home in Toronto)
-The pair together, holding hands, but still dressed quite casually in an everyday sort of mode, not hiding but not seeming fully inviting of the attention from the photographers (headed to or from entertainment in London)
-grainy, long-lens shots of them at the wedding in Jamaica (which seem to have been higher quality photos than the pair assumed would be possible for paparazzi to get at that venue) or kissing between cars at the polo match
-a single instance of Meghan dressing up to participate in a Harry-related social event, but without Harry

Things are ramping up, but given the pace they seem to have chosen, I wouldn't find it at all surprising if they weren't quite ready for the next step up in embracing the press until Meghan's had a few more solo photo ops like the one on the viewing stand at the polo match.

Seeing now just how close Pippa decided to let the photo gaggle get and how many clear, close shots they managed to get of wedding guests of interest, it just seems to me that it would have been skipping ahead a little in terms of Harry and Meghan's tightly controlled dance with the press.
  #5848  
Old 05-22-2017, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
If it is true that Meghan didn't go to the wedding to avoid upstaging the bride, then it would sound to me like a very arrogant assumption on Meghan's part and a very rude thing to do, especially if her reasons for not going were leaked to press. I doubt that is true though.
I think it is being realistic or pragmatic, rather than an arrogant assumption.

I think I tend to agree with the poster that said Harry and Meghan are not ready to be photographed "officially" as a couple. William and Kate attended weddings together before they were engaged, but never arrived together to be photographed as a couple until just before they announced their engagement.
  #5849  
Old 05-22-2017, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoasneeze View Post
Bit in bold: that's exactly what I meant, you explained it much better. Thank you!

Lainey Imo, again, is absolutely correct with this article.
Meghan Markle kept a low profile at Pippa's wedding with Prince Harry
Lainey is spot on.
The couple is very good at protecting their relationship. They dated for months without the press finding out!
Good for them!
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  #5850  
Old 05-22-2017, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I think it is being realistic or pragmatic, rather than an arrogant assumption.

I think I tend to agree with the poster that said Harry and Meghan are not ready to be photographed "officially" as a couple. William and Kate attended weddings together before they were engaged, but never arrived together to be photographed as a couple until just before they announced their engagement.
I agree. Leading up to the wedding Meghan was all over the press. The Sun called Pippa's wedding "The Wedding of the Rears" with an enlarged photo of Meghan's toned booty/bum/butt on the front cover. Social media was all abuzz over what she would be wearing etc.

Meghan would have unintentionally steal the spotlight by her presence alone.
It was a very mature and conscious decision for her to lay low and let Pippa have her day.
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  #5851  
Old 05-22-2017, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
Lainey is spot on.
The couple is very good at protecting their relationship. They dated for months without the press finding out!
Good for them!
That's what's it's all about protecting their privacy. None of it is about who's not invited to which event. I'm sure Pippa made sure Harry's girlfriend was invited to everything, but the couple did things their way.

I think it's all exhausting though. It's a lot of weight off the shoulders once everything becomes official and the couple is able to go about their business together without all the ducking, slipping and sliding about the place.
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  #5852  
Old 05-22-2017, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
That's what's it's all about protecting their privacy. None of it is about who's not invited to which event. I'm sure Pippa made sure Harry's girlfriend was invited to everything, but the couple did things their way.

I think it's all exhausting though. It's a lot of weight off the shoulders once everything becomes official and the couple is able to go about their business together without all the ducking, slipping and sliding about the place.
Which is why I'm thinking there's no way neither Harry or meghan would continue as a long term, non married couple. I think, if/when they get engaged, and then married, it'll make things a lot easier for them.
  #5853  
Old 05-22-2017, 02:32 PM
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E News has more information, which sounds more accurate than her already being at Englefield House.

Did Prince Harry Really Drive 100 Miles to Get Meghan Markle Inside Pippa Middleton's Wedding Reception? | E! News
  #5854  
Old 05-22-2017, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoasneeze View Post
Which is why I'm thinking there's no way neither Harry or meghan would continue as a long term, non married couple. I think, if/when they get engaged, and then married, it'll make things a lot easier for them.
Listen, I watched the Cambridge's relationship from its early days. After a while all the..not arriving together at events, walking with ones heads down and sneaking about the place...it gets tiring to watch. Privacy is always important and I don't blame them for protecting it, but once their able to go about their lives in a more comfortable way together in public...the better.
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  #5855  
Old 05-22-2017, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
I agree. Leading up to the wedding Meghan was all over the press. The Sun called Pippa's wedding "The Wedding of the Rears" with an enlarged photo of Meghan's toned booty/bum/butt on the front cover. Social media was all abuzz over what she would be wearing etc.

Meghan would have unintentionally steal the spotlight by her presence alone.
It was a very mature and conscious decision for her to lay low and let Pippa have her day.

I agree given the way the media creates rivalries and fake narratives, staying low key was the best thing for both Pippa's wedding and the relationship. By not giving the media content it forced them to stay focused on the Bride, also by not going the media could not ramp up the hysterical marriage talk.

I suspect now without any future weddings to hype up Harry and Meghan can now control their own narrative at their own pace.
  #5856  
Old 05-22-2017, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
So they were based at Engelfield House for the wedding I see. I hope they had a good time.
Meghan Markle waited in suite to join Pippa's wedding
I've seen another article from E-online that has a source indicating Harry and Meghan both left KP on Saturday morning, and then Harry left Meghan at a friend's rented house in the vicinity of Buckleberry & Englefield. Harry left the reception to go have lunch with Meghan at the rented house. Meghan had someone come to do her makeup, and then they left for the evening celebration at Buckleberry estate. All of this sounds logical and not made up.

In addition, E-online claims that Meghan was invited to all the events, including the church ceremony. However, Harry and Meghan decided it was best for Meghan to keep a low profile and only attend the late evening affair. Again, perfectly reasonable and already speculated by many posters (especially in light of the ridiculous, glaring headlines from infamous tabloids trying to stir up some kind of idiotic war). Even the guff about Pippa stealing Kate's spotlight in 2011 is completely ridiculous and a pure media creation.

Did Prince Harry Really Drive 100 Miles to Get Meghan Markle Inside Pippa Middleton's Wedding Reception? | E! News

There's also a video with Melanie Bromley actually talking to someone who claims to know Meghan (apparently a business acquaintance) Nick Ede a 'brand expert,' who says he has worked with Meghan previously. Ede speaks of Meghan very positively, and he has kind things to say about both Meghan and Harry. It's nice to hear kind words, even if it is a bit of p.r., what with all the negative slants and slurs from tabloids and trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
... I don't think that she will be so unadjusted that she will bring down the monarchy, and even if she did....
More like Meghan will uplift the monarchy with her down-to-earth style and presence. Along with William & Kate, Harry & Meghan perhaps will help lead the royal family slowly but surely into a new era with adherence to the most respected traditions of the past, but with a relaxing of the more archaic and antiquated stuff that's been confounding and hampering the lives of royals for far too long.

Already, there have been increasing changes in how the royal children are being raised in a less stuffy and strict 'behind palace walls' way. As a modern mother, Kate is taking on more of a major role with less nanny dominance, in raising Prince George and Princess Charlotte (with the help of William and the Middletons). Some of these changes began with Diana & Charles in their approach to raising William and Harry.
  #5857  
Old 05-22-2017, 04:30 PM
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It's been actually funny to follow the tabloids make up stories re this wedding. One tabloids makes up one story, every other one repeats it. This 'Harry drove 100 miles to go and collect Meghan being one of them. Shows just how little they know.
  #5858  
Old 05-22-2017, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
If it is true that Meghan didn't go to the wedding to avoid upstaging the bride, then it would sound to me like a very arrogant assumption on Meghan's part and a very rude thing to do, especially if her reasons for not going were leaked to press. I doubt that is true though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
I agree. Leading up to the wedding Meghan was all over the press. The Sun called Pippa's wedding "The Wedding of the Rears" with an enlarged photo of Meghan's toned booty/bum/butt on the front cover. Social media was all abuzz over what she would be wearing etc.

Meghan would have unintentionally steal the spotlight by her presence alone.
It was a very mature and conscious decision for her to lay low and let Pippa have her day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlowVera View Post
I agree given the way the media creates rivalries and fake narratives, staying low key was the best thing for both Pippa's wedding and the relationship.
I agree that it is an arrogant assumption, and I do not believe it is the reason that Meghan did not attend the wedding. I think that due to space at the church, Prince Harry was not allowed a plus one, and Meghan was not issued an invitation on her own. No more, no less.

If Pippa and her family are so private and do not care about media coverage, then Meghan stealing Pippa's spotlight should not be an issue. To their friends & family, Pippa & James were the most important couple of the day, not Prince Harry and his girlfriend. And these friends & family are who should matter to the bridal couple and their families - not who got more (or any) coverage in the media. Other than a few pictures of guests greeting the groom as they arrived at the church, the photogs did not take picture of the bride & groom amongst their guests. It seems that Pippa arrived after the guests were in the church, and left before their guests exited the church, so there would have been no disruption of the happy couple's big day while while photogs clamored for the money shot of Harry & Meghan. But any spotlight stealing would only matter if Pippa and her family do not care about the press attention, which, IMO, they do.
  #5859  
Old 05-22-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoasneeze View Post
It's been actually funny to follow the tabloids make up stories re this wedding. One tabloids makes up one story, every other one repeats it. This 'Harry drove 100 miles to go and collect Meghan being one of them. Shows just how little they know.
Kind of funny but also a bit annoying when, if you follow these people at all, you know the likelihood of certain stories being true are slim to none. Yet people read them and believe them---forever!

I think the E News story sounds like the most likely of the "where was Meghan" stories.
  #5860  
Old 05-22-2017, 06:03 PM
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It's a bit sad that we have only one grainy photo with reference to the reception. Yes, I know it was a private event but no photos again allows people on other sites to snigger, infer that Meghan wasn't really there for any of Pippa's celebrations, that the romance isn't valid in spite of Harry's November declaration, and a dozen other imputations.

I agree with Dman and what observers and well wishers found frustrating in the early years of the Cambridges' courtship, that there is always quite a lot of (unnecessary IMO) sneaking around involved in dating a Royal. There were hardly any photos of Will and Kate in the first couple of years of their dating life and they were living in the same country!

In Harry's case we've had a statement that he is dating Meghan, yet some people still don't believe it or are making up ulterior motives for it.

It would be better surely to have lunch or dinner dates or go to the pub as 99% of couples do, especially when Harry is in Toronto, a very laid back town, and let the cards fall where they may as far as paps and onlookers with cell phones are concerned.

At least then, people who don't believe that this a serious romance will have the evidence in front of them before the engagement announcement.

After all Harry and Meghan would only be doing what the majority of dating couples do, enjoying each other's company. And quite frankly, at least after a while, I doubt they'd be bothered very much, at least not in Canada.

The cloak and dagger stuff, the trying desperately for privacy at times when it's not really necessary, holed up inside your home when you'd really like to go out, is like some board game played with the tabloid press, 'Catch Me When You Can!' it ought to be called, and as a long time Royal watcher I just find it very irritating.
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