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  #5181  
Old 04-22-2017, 02:44 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
It is not the same I think. That was ages ago.
Members of the BRF(and European monarchies in general) who married in are always white. Despite governing over a multicultural nation, the royal family does not reflect that. So indeed Meghan, should she get married to Harry will be a breath of fresh air.
Europeans normally are not obsessed with race as Americans are. In fact, "race" is not even a meaningful biological concept; it is merely a social construct.

However, as I have been trying to argue, religion might be a much bigger hurdle for Meghan as the UK (or England rather) still has an established church governed by the Queen and intimately associated with the Royal Family. There is no such thing as separation of Church and State in the UK as it exists for example in the US.
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  #5182  
Old 04-22-2017, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
It is not the same I think. That was ages ago.
Members of the BRF(and European monarchies in general) who married in are always white. Despite governing over a multicultural nation, the royal family does not reflect that. So indeed Meghan, should she get married to Harry will be a breath of fresh air.
No.

Princess Angela of Lichtenstein is African American. Making Prince Alfons biracial. She is said to be the first Known African American in that Sophia Charlottes African ancestry wasn't recognized at the time she lived.

Lady Davina Lewis is married to a man of Maori descent.

Prince Joachims first wife was of Chinese descent.

So Meghan would certainly not be the only non Caucasian Royal in Europe. Well Davina is extended royal family. Alexandra may be divorced, but Felix and Nikolai are part Chinese as well.
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  #5183  
Old 04-22-2017, 03:22 PM
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But do they look part Chinese. If I showed ten people a picture of Prince Felix and told them he was part Chinese, I bet they would laugh in my face or think I am on something.
  #5184  
Old 04-22-2017, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by RoyalHighness 2002 View Post
But do they look part Chinese. If I showed ten people a picture of Prince Felix and told them he was part Chinese, I bet they would laugh in my face or think I am on something.
Wow, not sure how insulting you realize that sounds

So it's okay they are biracial if they don't look it? they are part chinese whether they look it or not. And the poster was talking wives. There was no doubt looking at Alexandra she was Chinese.

Meghan is quite fair for being biracial. There is no certainty her kids would 'look African'. Not that it matters if they did
  #5185  
Old 04-22-2017, 04:04 PM
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I was trying to say the weren't multiethnic. I was just trying to show (badly) that most people don't know their is diversity in European royal families. The average American probably doesn't know Lichtenstein has a princely family and maybe a small percent know the head, so I don't expect them to know who Princess Angela is. If her father is barely known, then I don't think Lady Davina is common knowledge or the ethnicity of her husband. Yes, Countess Alexandra was known but now most people may not remember her or Prince Joachim as much. So Meghan marrying into the most famous royal family would definitely be seen and could bring attention to those like Prince Felix and Princess Angela showing the diversity of Europe's ruling families.
  #5186  
Old 04-22-2017, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalHighness 2002 View Post
But do they look part Chinese. If I showed ten people a picture of Prince Felix and told them he was part Chinese, I bet they would laugh in my face or think I am on something.
?? so what if they do or don't look Chinese? What on earth does this mean?
  #5187  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalHighness 2002 View Post
But do they look part Chinese. If I showed ten people a picture of Prince Felix and told them he was part Chinese, I bet they would laugh in my face or think I am on something.
He DOES look part Chinese though. Its in the eyes.
  #5188  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
This is true indeed. A beautiful Queen she was.
was she? I thought she was considered rather plain. And her African ancestry was not known..
  #5189  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
was she? I thought she was considered rather plain. And her African ancestry was not known..

Maybe the comment referred to her other qualities instead of her looks? She was supposedly very intelligent and had an interest in science and history.

But it's said that most of her contemporaries considered her ugly. I read an account in which she was described as resembling a gargoyle.

(I think the theory that she had African ancestry is quite recent, though).
  #5190  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
was she? I thought she was considered rather plain. And her African ancestry was not known..
Yes, I see some beauty in her-

http://www.nybooks.com/wp-content/up...e-two-sons.jpg

I here the people of Charlotte, North Carolina are happy their city was named after her.
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  #5191  
Old 04-22-2017, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Maybe the comment referred to her other qualities instead of her looks? She was supposedly very intelligent and had an interest in science and history.

But it's said that most of her contemporaries considered her ugly. I read an account in which she was described as resembling a gargoyle.

(I think the theory that she had African ancestry is quite recent, though).
Yes recent, as in the last decade or so. A biographer wrote an expose claiming she was descended from a black portugese line. But even in charlottes time, if it's true, it was quite a few generations back.

Yes, the woman had an unfortunate reputation for her looks. But she seemed quite popular. Her work in improving loves if orphans, education for women and her art patronage are all quite respected.
  #5192  
Old 04-22-2017, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalHighness 2002 View Post
I was trying to say the weren't multiethnic. I was just trying to show (badly) that most people don't know their is diversity in European royal families. The average American probably doesn't know Lichtenstein has a princely family and maybe a small percent know the head, so I don't expect them to know who Princess Angela is. If her father is barely known, then I don't think Lady Davina is common knowledge or the ethnicity of her husband. Yes, Countess Alexandra was known but now most people may not remember her or Prince Joachim as much. So Meghan marrying into the most famous royal family would definitely be seen and could bring attention to those like Prince Felix and Princess Angela showing the diversity of Europe's ruling families.
My point exactly!!!
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  #5193  
Old 04-22-2017, 09:46 PM
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What we do know is that no matter what Meghan's makeup is, he's extremely happy with the whole package. Those little things don't matter and should they decide to marry, they still won't matter and should they have children, it still won't matter. Not one bit.
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  #5194  
Old 04-22-2017, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
My point exactly!!!
When you make the statement 'all people who marry into European monarchies are white' we can be forgiven for believing you are saying exactly that.

Your post didn't mention the public and their lack of knowledge of other families. Simply a blatantly wrong statement royals only marry white people. Which is clearly not true.

How is Meghan going to bring attention to other diversity? If people in America aren't aware of Lichtebstein now they aren't going to know about it from Meghan. Unless one thinks she will seek out and befriend other multi racial royals.
  #5195  
Old 04-22-2017, 10:32 PM
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I think we're treading on treacherous ground discussing racial issues whether it be one person or one country or all of Europe. Its a subject our moderators have asked us to steer clear of and we wouldn't want this thread closed down yet again.
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  #5196  
Old 04-22-2017, 10:37 PM
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I have read on other forums and on social media though that black people living in Britain are quite intrigued that a biracial woman may be entering the senior ranks of the BRF. And that will be a first, in spite of possible remote Portugese ancestors of Queen Charlotte.
  #5197  
Old 04-22-2017, 10:46 PM
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I find it amazing that when it all boils down, what we are actually discussing is the level of melanocytes in a person's biological makeup. Known as melanin, we all have it. Some people just have more and some people just have less.

No difference than that some people have the brown eyed gene dominant in their makeup and some have the blue eyed gene dominant. Some even get the genes mixed up and end up with green, violet, hazel and gray eyes.

Silly when you think its really an issue eh?
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  #5198  
Old 04-22-2017, 11:53 PM
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Race is a social construct, but to paraphrase the work of a writer who did some incredible work this week- so are a lot of things. Money is a social construct, but it has real impacts on people's lives. If I declare myself a billionaire tomorrow and tell everyone money is a social construct- well, it's not going to go well for me.


So... in the end, is race a real thing that is useful to categorize people? No. It's based on some really toxic and outdated ideas. Is it a thing that has really impacted people and continues to do so? Absolutely.


For that reason: it will be a very big deal to a lot of little black girls to see a black girl become a princess. To see a black woman become the mother in law of a prince. It would be a beautiful, powerful symbol of moving on from a history that has hurt a lot of people.

It's part of why I hope this works out- because I know how many little girls would find it special to see a girl who looks like them and comes from a family like theirs join the royal family. I get a bit teary eyed when I think about it.
  #5199  
Old 04-23-2017, 01:10 AM
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Please get back on topic. The moderating team have requested previously that racial issues not be brought up as it always ends badly.

If you wish to discuss race, do so elsewhere. Further posts on the matter will be removed, and warnings given to members who continually bring off-topic discussions to this thread.
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  #5200  
Old 04-24-2017, 11:29 PM
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Well, on the positive side, I'm hoping Meghan's and Harry's relationship doesn't end badly. And that Meghan herself will not be constrained from being fully herself should they marry. Hopefully they both will be able to balance respect for royal traditions with thumbing their noses at died-in-the-wool conservative and boring expectations.

For those who may have missed this interesting discussion by Lainey (of Lainey gossip fame) & Duana on their 'Show Your Work' podcast: Show Your Work Podcast

Scroll down to April 10 show: the first half of that podcast episode has a lively discussion about Meghan's and Harry's relationship and speculation surrounding what Meghan closing down her Tig lifestyle blog might mean.
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