Prince Harry: Relationship Rumours and Musings 2013-2014


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The jealousy that any woman 'dating' a Prince attracts is what does it ! The bile they seem to inspire is really sometimes beyond belief.

This forum is largely free of it, but elsewhere in the comment pages of the gutter press, on the social media and on other fora it is actually quite frightening.

I feel sorry for any woman at the centre of it {particularly those who aren't yet married or engaged as they aren't yet officially 'protected'.}

And sadly, the premise implies that Harry has nothing to offer a partner except wealth, security, a title. It is a backhanded slap at him as well.

If you are the type of woman that likes a bit of a rascal (and many of us do) he is funny, adventurous, loyal, hunky, healthy, charming, humble, a good bloke, thoughtful, values driven and anything but dull.

He's also been through adversity and seems to have improved by it. He seems to have few issues about being irrelevant barring all but the very worst of eventualities.

His situation with the press is a bit dodgy and if and when he becomes a full time royal, parts of the job will probably bore him. But he seems to deal with boredom by taking action rather than acting cranky and he has done well in the Army with fairly dull outpost lookout duty (at least dull till it gets very exciting).

He can have very bad judgement at times - and a life partner who can re-direct his high spirits will be important.

To assume only a social climbing muddle head would marry him does not do justice to the man he is. IMHO.
 
Sadly there is an element of snobbery involved when a royal considers marrying or marries a commoner. Just think of the vitriol poured on Charlene, Daniel, Catherine, Maxima, Mary, Letitizia in the early days. Yes, some are now very popular but it was difficult in the beginning. Very different for noble ladies of the right religion marrying into the families - Stephanie, Matilde and Diana.
 
If you want to get down to it, Cressida is a certified aristocrat herself,certainly more than Maxima and Mary.... but she does not present herself in that light but rather as a young,free spirited dancer so that part of her is not often brought up or at least not emphasized.
 
If you want to get down to it, Cressida is a certified aristocrat herself,certainly more than Maxima and Mary.... but she does not present herself in that light but rather as a young,free spirited dancer so that part of her is not often brought up or at least not emphasized.

I wouldn't class her as an aristocrat as her father was a commoner and her mothers title is a courtesy title only.
 
Sadly there is an element of snobbery involved when a royal considers marrying or marries a commoner. Just think of the vitriol poured on Charlene, Daniel, Catherine, Maxima, Mary, Letitizia in the early days. Yes, some are now very popular but it was difficult in the beginning. Very different for noble ladies of the right religion marrying into the families - Stephanie, Matilde and Diana.

This is quite incorrect, and a fallacy imo. You apparently did not see some of the remarks and assumptions made about Mathilde and Stephanie upon the announcement of their prospective engagements ....the idea that of course the marriages must be arranged since these women were aristocrats, and perhaps the groom was even gay because of course there is no way a Prince could fall in love with a noblewoman.:bang:

The reasons Mathilde, Stephanie and Diana were not dragged through the coals was not because they were not commoners. It's because they did not come with the baggage and the controversy of quite a few of the other Royal consorts. That's not their faults.

I'm curious about what is meant by the "right" religion?

BTW, Cressida is the granddaughter of the 6th Earl Howe. According to Wiki and much of the world press, she is indeed an aristocrat.
 
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This is quite incorrect, and a fallacy imo. You apparently did not see some of the remarks and assumptions made about Mathilde and Stephanie upon the announcement of their prospective engagements ....the idea that of course the marriages must be arranged since these women were aristocrats, and perhaps the groom was gay because of course there is no way a Prince could fall in love with a noblewoman.:bang:

The reasons Mathilde, Stephanie and Diana were not dragged through the coals was not because they were not commoners. It's because they did not come with the baggage and the controversy of quite a few of the other Royal consorts. That's not their faults.

I'm curious about what is meant by the "right" religion?

Cressida is the granddaughter of the 6th Earl Howe. According to Wiki and much of the world press, she is indeed an aristocrat.

By "right" religion I mean that there was no requirement to change, not did cause controversy.. The only negative comments about Stephanie I remember were some horrible posts about how plain she was - and they were removed (quite rightly) and as for Diana - too young is the only one I can remember as it was so long ago.

Oh and the other negative brought up is the imposition of one's personal moral code onto prospective members of RF. And sadly this forum has a lot of that.

I give way to your greater knowledge re Matilde.
 
BTW, Cressida is the granddaughter of the 6th Earl Howe. According to Wiki and much of the world press, she is indeed an aristocrat.

Wiki and some sectors of world press are not very reliable sources.

In my opinion, an aristocrat is someone who holds a title (which Cressida does not).

Of course, there's the concept of "untitled nobility", but that is an continental European and Brazilian thing. I don't think the Bonas family is "untitled nobility". Her mother is an aristocrat, but Cressida is just a commoner with nobel ancestors

Peter Phillips and Zara Tindall, for example, are commoners who happen to have The Queen as grandmother. Their mother being a Princess doesn't make them Royalty. So, Cressida's mother being a Lady and her grandfather an Earl will not make her an aristocrat.
 
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Wiki and some sectors of world press are not very reliables sources.

In my opinion, an aristocrat is someone who holds a titles (which Cressida does not).

Of course, there's the concept of "untitled nobility", but that is an continetal European and Brazilian thing. I don't think the Bonas family is "untitled nobility". Her mother is an aristocrat, but Cressida is just a commoner with nobel ancestor

Peter Phillips and Zara Tindall, for example, are commoners who happen to have The Queen as grandmother. Their mother being a Princess doesn't make them Royalty. So, Cressida's mother being a Lady and her grandfather an Earl will not make her an aristocrat.

Agree 100% on this.
 
Cepe, Diana was not required to change religions because she was a member of the CoE marrying the Prince of Wales.

Mathilde was a Roman Catholic marrying a Roman Catholic, ditto Stephanie. In each case there would have been no reason to change a thing.

A quick run through of the Guillaume/Stephanie Mathilde/Philippe threads here on TRF as well as other message boards will confirm that quite a few posters posited these were indeed arranged marriage because they seemed so sudden, and because no one knew the groom(s) were dating. The sexual preferences of both men were and are questioned to this day.

This was never done in the case of non-aristocrat Letizia Rocasolano. The public didn't know they were dating until the day the engagement was announced, yet no one speculated that it was not a genuine love match.

BrazilianEmpire, my point about Cressida's title or lack of is simply that she is not considered from the working class. Her ancestors are not cab drivers, coal-miners, schoolteachers, etc.
 
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In the United Kingdom [technically] only the Peer/Peeress is noble . Their spouse, siblings, children and grandchildren may or may not have titles, but they do so by courtesy. I'm my opinion you are correct BrazilianEmpire, Ms Bonas is of noble descent, but not noble herself.
 
Cepe, Diana was not required to change religions because she was a member of the CoE marrying the Prince of Wales.

Mathilde was a Roman Catholic marrying a Roman Catholic, ditto Stephanie. In each case there would have been no reason to change a thing.

A quick run through of the Guillaume/Stephanie Mathilde/Philippe threads here on TRF as well as other message boards will confirm that quite a few posters posited these were indeed arranged marriage because they was so sudden, and because no one knew the groom(s) were dating. The sexual preferences of both men were and are questioned to this day.

This was never done in the case of non-aristocrat Letizia Rocasolano. The public did know they were dating until the day the engagement was announced, yet no one speculated that it was not a genuine love match.

BrazilianEmpire, my point about Cressida's title or lack of is simply that she is not considered from the working class. Her ancestors are not cab drivers, coal-miners, schoolteachers, etc.

That's what I meant when I said "right" religion - no need to change; no controversy in that regard.
 
BrazilianEmpire, my point about Cressida's title or lack of is simply that she is not considered from the working class. Her ancestors are not cab drivers, coal-miners, schoolteachers, etc.

Okay, but the world is not divided between working class and aristocracy.

Cressida is just a wealthy commoner, like tons of people in the United Kingdom and the rest of the world.

And you said schoolteachers are working class, but Lady Diana Spencer was a schooldteacher and an aristocrat.
 
Okay, but the world is not divided between working class and aristocracy.

Cressida is just a wealthy commoner, like tons of people in the United Kingdom and the rest of the world.

And you said schoolteachers are working class, but Lady Diana Spencer was a schooldteacher and an aristocrat.

Working class is much misused term. I wouldn't call the Middletons working class, they are middle class. In this day and age, people's effort and intellect establish them rather than what their ancestors did.

Schoolteachers in UK would not be considered working class in general terms (although individual teachers might consider themselves working class).

Diana wasn't a school teacher, she was a nursery assistant (no qualifications).
 
Working class is much misused term. I wouldn't call the Middletons working class, they are middle class. In this day and age, people's effort and intellect establish them rather than what their ancestors did.

Schoolteachers in UK would not be considered working class in general terms (although individual teachers might consider themselves working class).

Diana wasn't a school teacher, she was a nursery assistant (no qualifications).

Thanks for the clarification, cepe.

Working class really sounds like a Marxist/Communist term.
 
Cressida trained to become a dancer (although I agree that 24/25 is old to be jut starting one's dancing career) long before she ever met Harry. I do not think her change in careers is solely to "nail a Prince". Most people change careers in their life-time. Many change careers because they can not find a job in their chosen field. some realize that they do not like their career. For many women, falling in love or starting a family has them re-focusing on what they want to do with their lives.

Cressida has not given up a career in cutting edge physics or medicine, just to party with Harry. She went to college to become a dancer..... None of us have seen her perform, she may not have the skill to succeed in this very competitive field. Or realized that she might be getting jobs solely on her relationship with Harry.

But people change their minds all the time about their career.
 
Peter Phillips and Zara Tindall, for example, are commoners who happen to have The Queen as grandmother. Their mother being a Princess doesn't make them Royalty. So, Cressida's mother being a Lady and her grandfather an Earl will not make her an aristocrat.

Peter and Zara may be technically commoners, but they are de facto Royalty. They might have no Royal styles or titles, but they know which fork to use, and for similar reasons, so does Cressida. And that's why her background is relevant. She might have less experience with mixing in the highest of high society, but she still has a head start over daughters of families with no aristocratic connections. She knows how to behave, even if she doesn't always do it.
 
Okay, but the world is not divided between working class and aristocracy.

Cressida is just a wealthy commoner, like tons of people in the United Kingdom and the rest of the world.

And you said schoolteachers are working class, but Lady Diana Spencer was a schooldteacher and an aristocrat.

Who said that it was, and why are we engaging in hair splitting here?

There are quite a few newspapers and other media that routinely identify Bonas as aristocratic or of "noble descent" as you have described it. I am hardly the first or the only one.I agree that it's not important at all, but the great perception to much of the outside world of Royalty watchers is that Prince Harry is dating an aristocrat.

Catherine Middleton is my idea of a wealthy commoner, not Cressida Bonas. JMHO.

And I am neither Marxist nor Communist, be assured.
 
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Peter and Zara may be technically commoners, but they are de facto Royalty. They might have no Royal styles or titles, but they know which fork to use, and for similar reasons, so does Cressida. And that's why her background is relevant. She might have less experience with mixing in the highest of high society, but she still has a head start over daughters of families with no aristocratic connections. She knows how to behave, even if she doesn't always do it.


How to behave?
Would you say her mother (who is after all, the daughter of an earl) knows how to behave as well? Yet she posed half-naked and coated with motor oil for the cover of a book called Birds of Britain. Then too, she's been involved in plenty of scandal and has had four failed marriages.

If Carole Middleton had done anything remotely like that, everyone would jeer and say what can anyone expect from someone without any aristocratic connections.
Yet she's not the one who didn't behave herself, is she?

That's why I think her background is totally irrelevant; there's more to classy behavior than knowing the right fork to use.
 
Knowing what fork to use can be taught. Having photographers follow your every move and having the press follow everything you wear and criticize it, is some thing that has to be endured if you are dating a prince. A lot of people would not be able to hack it. A lot also would not want to give up their personal freedom and have them and their entire family scrutinized.
 
Peter and Zara may be technically commoners, but they are de facto Royalty. They might have no Royal styles or titles, but they know which fork to use, and for similar reasons, so does Cressida. And that's why her background is relevant. She might have less experience with mixing in the highest of high society, but she still has a head start over daughters of families with no aristocratic connections. She knows how to behave, even if she doesn't always do it.

I can remember the assumption that because Diana's father was an Earl she was used to mixing in royal circles and knew how to behave - but she didn't and it made her a bag of nerves.

It isn't aristocratic circles that helps, it's being part of the inner royal circle and neither of Cressida's parents are in that. And having a title is not a ticket into that exclusive circle.

You are right that she has aristocratic connections but she is not an aristocrat.
 
If my son wanted to marry, my first question in regards to his fiancee would be: "Does she come from a good family?". For me a good family is composed of people who honestly earn their living, have good morals and value family and tradition. Most likely, it is not different for the royals.
 
Diana Spencer did indeed know how to "behave".

She simply refused to do so, for a variety of very complicated reasons.:sad:
 
Diana Spencer did indeed know how to "behave".

She simply refused to do so, for a variety of very complicated reasons.:sad:

But she found it difficult to adjust to the inner royal circle. It isn't about "bad behaviour" or knowing which cutlery to use - it's their way of talking to each other; in jokes; which protocols are used and when - all sorts of in-family behaviour.

ITs like joining an exclusive club which has its own rules - and they dont tell you what they are
 
And I am neither Marxist nor Communist, be assured.

I never meant to say this. I'm sorry, I was just saying that "working class" sounds like a Communist or Marxist term, not that you are a Communist or a Marxist.
 
If my son wanted to marry, my first question in regards to his fiancee would be: "Does she come from a good family?". For me a good family is composed of people who honestly earn their living, have good morals and value family and tradition. Most likely, it is not different for the royals.

Excellent Argie. I couldn't agree more.;)
 
Knowing what fork to use can be taught.
"She knows which fork to use" is a figure of speech, meaning that because of her background she knows how to behave in any social context and will look and feel at ease in a formal social context. I believe she has a head start in this regard over someone who has no aristocratic connections.


Having photographers follow your every move and having the press follow everything you wear and criticize it, is some thing that has to be endured if you are dating a prince. A lot of people would not be able to hack it. A lot also would not want to give up their personal freedom and have them and their entire family scrutinized.
Agreed. No matter what her background she might hate this, but from what I have seen she seems able to cope.
 
But she found it difficult to adjust to the inner royal circle. It isn't about "bad behaviour" or knowing which cutlery to use - it's their way of talking to each other; in jokes; which protocols are used and when - all sorts of in-family behaviour.

Unless you've been a part of the family for a very long time, the best one can say is that they're familiar with it. Quite like working for the FBI, CIA, NCIS or Interpol. We can read about it, watch documentaries on how they work, envy them their lives of covert action and thrilling escapades but until we're actually a part of the organization and know the inside workings, we're just familiar.

Regardless of background, wealth, family or whether one prefers tea or coffee, any relationship that is getting serious and the question of marriage and life long commitment is a possibility, the first priority is and should be whether the couple love, respect and honor each other enough to run the gamut of whatever they may face together.
 
They might have no Royal styles or titles, but they know which fork to use, and for similar reasons, so does Cressida.

I know which fork to use, but I'm not a Royal.

Maybe "know which fork to use" is an english expression I'm not familiar with.
 
TRF is different from other royal forums. We actually try to be civil, a lot of the time. The rest of the time, the mods force us to use the sentient part of our natures.
Don't assume that we mean the vilest thing when we state something. Often we are stating exactly our opinion without hidden meanings.
Some here are trolls, but I stand up for Cepe when I say that her words don't throw concealed rocks.
Just my opinion.
 
I know which fork to use, but I'm not a Royal.

Maybe "know which fork to use" is an english expression I'm not familiar with.

The way I was raised, it was important to know how to set a table for dinners with placements of all the cutlery, glassware and whatnot. Shrimp fork, salad fork, dinner fork, wine glass, water glass, napkins, water bowl etc. A young lady's etiquette learning.

I've yet to use that well learned knowledge to a full extent as I'm more of a hot dogs, beer and potato chip kind of entertainer. You're right in that it is kind of an expression denoting knowing the proper etiquette to use in certain situations.
 
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