Possible Dukedom for Harry and Meghan

[PtahHotep]

I think the Queen will stick to the C's: Cornwall, Cambridge, Clarence!

Clarence is good but it unfortunately reminds me of Richard III's brother Clarence being drowned in a butt of malmsey in the play. I guarantee you if I remember that cultural reference then other, less educated people will. ?

I go with Duke and Duchess Of Sussex.

 

[Pranter]

That's my hope! Clarence!

Both of them are related to the first Duke of Clarence!

LaRae

 

[Countessmeout]

^ But I don't necessarily think that's about their titles. Honestly no matter their children are called there will be INTENSE interest as this is one of Diana's sons we're talking about and social media changes everything re: public interest and privacy of the BRF.

Plus I think a precedent has been set in the way Kate's pregnancies and the Cambridge kids have been covered. Yes they are higher in Line but the public doesn't care about that. What they want to see is cute royal children which is what H&M's children will be regardless of title and I don't think styling them as 'Lord/Lady' is going to lessen that.

Prince Harry is not only one of only 2 sons of the future king, but he is also the son of Diana. Add to that his wife is a former actress. The reality is their kids are going to be of interest for years to come. Whether they are Lord and Lady or Prince and Princes. Harry and Meghan will not fall into the shadow of interest until George and his siblings start taking on duties which wont be for some decades to come. And that will affect his kids.


Having no prince/ss title will not make life any easier/less public.

 

[King of the Jungle]

Would it be too much to have three Cs?
Clarence has some familiarity and also is the name of the three legged lion who died a year or two back in Uganda.
What is the full list of all (obvious and obscure) Dukedoms available?
Is there a site to peruse?

Harry The Duke of Hereford sounds handsome to the ear.

I'm hoping for the Queen to offer a Dukedom to Eugenie, and her other grandchildren on marriage.

 

[Stefan]

Would it be too much to have three Cs?
Clarence has some familiarity and also is the name of the three legged lion who died a year or two back in Uganda.

It would only be for a few years with 3 C's as William and Catherine will likely become the Prince and Pricness of Wales and Camilla will become either the Queen or the Princess Consort.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I think the Queen will stick to the C's: Cornwall, Cambridge, Clarence!

Cornwall was no choice. Since 1337 the oldest living son of the monarch is automatically The Duke of Cornwall.

 

[wyevale]

I'm going with the 'wild card'..

TRH the Duke a Duchess of Powis..

a nod to Cymru, and way of keeping Wales 'in Harry's 'picture'..

 

[Gawin]

Cornwall was no choice. Since 1337 the oldest living son of the monarch is automatically The Duke of Cornwall.

A minor clarification: the oldest living son who is also heir apparent. If Charles dies before the Queen, Andrew will not become Duke of Cornwall.

 

[rominet09]

When shall we know ???? I mean officially ?

 

[Gawin]

We don't know for certain but William's title was announced at 8:00 a.m. UK time the morning of his wedding.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I'm hoping for the Queen to offer a Dukedom to Eugenie, and her other grandchildren on marriage.

She already has three married grandchildren and has only made one a Duke.

There is no way she will be giving titles to Beatrice or Eugenie. That goes against the entire making the family smaller ideas.

Eugenie will be HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs Jack Brookshank after her wedding - dropping the 'of York'. The precedent for that is Princess Alexandra - also a granddaughter of a King but who wasn't given a title on her marriage.

 

[Mbruno]

She already has three married grandchildren and has only made one a Duke.

There is no way she will be giving titles to Beatrice or Eugenie. That goes against the entire making the family smaller ideas.

Eugenie will be HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs Jack Brookshank after her wedding - dropping the 'of York'. The precedent for that is Princess Alexandra - also a granddaughter of a King but who wasn't given a title on her marriage.

Normally the children of the Prince of Wales are the only grandchildren who get new dukedoms, are they not ?

 

[Ish]

Normally the children of the Prince of Wales are the only grandchildren who get dukedoms, are they not ?

There is no “normally” - to look for precedent, you have to go back over a hundred years to the reigns of Queen Victoria and Edward VII. You can’t really compare, as things were different then.

It is said that when they married, the Queen offered a title to Princess Alexandra and Angus Ogilvy, but that they turned it down. The same is also said when Anne and Mark Phillips married.

 

[Mbruno]

There is no “normally” - to look for precedent, you have to go back over a hundred years to the reigns of Queen Victoria and Edward VII. You can’t really compare, as things were different then.

It is said that when they married, the Queen offered a title to Princess Alexandra and Angus Ogilvy, but that they turned it down. The same is also said when Anne and Mark Phillips married.

Prince Michael of Kent didn't get a new dukedom when he got married and his older brother inherited an existing dukedom from their father, as was also the case with the current Duke of Gloucester. The only creation of a "new dukedom" for a grandson of a monarch that I can think of in recent times is Prince William being made Duke of Cambridge. The future King George V, as a grandson of a monarch, was made Duke of York, but only after he became the eldest living son of the Prince of Wales. It is unclear to me if he would have been made a duke before his father became king if his older brother had not been deceased.

 

[santos1988]

I guess I'm in minority but I hope for Duke of Sussex (since I live in Sussex myself)

 

[tihkon2]

I guess I'm in minority but I hope for Duke of Sussex (since I live in Sussex myself)

Hoping it's Sussex as well. Been 175 years since the last Duke of Sussex died.

 

[vandalia]

I am new to this forum, but not to the subject.

My best guess is that he will not be created a Duke - at least not yet. He will be created an Earl, and the announcement will state that he will be created Duke of York when that title becomes extinct. Note that "Duke of York" is the traditional title for the second son of a British Monarch, and it is incredibly unlikely that the current Duke of York will have a son. Now, if when that happens, the Duke of Cambridge is King, and he wants HIS second son to be Duke of York, well, that will be a number of years down the road...

Also, keep in mind that the current Earl of Wessex has a higher claim to precedence (i.e., the son of the Monarch) than does "Prince Harry", the grandson of the Monarch. Prince Edward was 7th in the Line of Succession when he married. Prince Henry (Harry) is currently 6th.

The final point is that Prince Charles has strongly advocated for a Royal Family that is strongly focused on the direct line of succession. He may have been limited - for now - in enforcing that with his brother, Prince Andrew, but in this case he has more control.

It would be unexpected, but don't be totally shocked if this happens.

 

[Curbside]

Sussex has the advantage of being a dukedom that has never had a duchess. Still, Duke and Duchess of Sussex is a bit of a tongue twister.

 

[tommy100]

I hope its not Clarence purely because it would leave us with the Duchess of Cornwall, The Duke & Duchess of Cambridge and the Duke & Duchess of Clarence!

 

[An Ard Ri]

Sussex has the advantage of being a dukedom that has never had a duchess. Still, Duke and Duchess of Sussex is a bit of a tongue twister.

Ha ha yes it is indeed a bit of a tongue twister!

 

[Mbruno]

How many hours away are we now from the announcement of the dukedom ?

 

[jacqui24]

How many hours away are we now from the announcement of the dukedom ?

It's almost 11pm in UK. I believe they announced William's at 8:00am. If that's the case, then 9 hours.

 

[Curbside]

How many hours away are we now from the announcement of the dukedom ?

Not sure how many hours, but it certainly feels like an eternity!

 

[Gawin]

It's almost 11pm in UK. I believe they announced William's at 8:00am. If that's the case, then 9 hours.

Yes, you're right. William's title was announced at 8:00 a.m. UK time.

 

[Stuttering_Coco]

I think it'll be Sussex. I thought I heard the Queen will make Meghan Duchess of Sussex so it'd only make sense despite it's similarity to Wessex. If this is wrong or outdated please tell me.

 

[Gawin]

I think it'll be Sussex. I thought I heard the Queen will make Meghan Duchess of Sussex so it'd only make sense despite it's similarity to Wessex. If this is wrong or outdated please tell me.

Do you remember where you heard that?

 

[Pranter]

There's not been anything released about their titles...so I'd say that was media speculation.


LaRae

 

[cmsteepy]

I am new to this forum, but not to the subject.

My best guess is that he will not be created a Duke - at least not yet. He will be created an Earl, and the announcement will state that he will be created Duke of York when that title becomes extinct. Note that "Duke of York" is the traditional title for the second son of a British Monarch, and it is incredibly unlikely that the current Duke of York will have a son. Now, if when that happens, the Duke of Cambridge is King, and he wants HIS second son to be Duke of York, well, that will be a number of years down the road...

Also, keep in mind that the current Earl of Wessex has a higher claim to precedence (i.e., the son of the Monarch) than does "Prince Harry", the grandson of the Monarch. Prince Edward was 7th in the Line of Succession when he married. Prince Henry (Harry) is currently 6th.

The final point is that Prince Charles has strongly advocated for a Royal Family that is strongly focused on the direct line of succession. He may have been limited - for now - in enforcing that with his brother, Prince Andrew, but in this case he has more control.

It would be unexpected, but don't be totally shocked if this happens.

That is not a bad thought, however, the current Duke of York is only 58 years old and the Windsor's have a knack for longevity. I don't think they will save York for Prince Harry and therefore, I believe he will get his own dukedom.

But . . ., look down one more generation and I think the second son of a future monarch could very well become the next Duke of York, Prince Louis of Cambridge.

 

[Gawin]

That is not a bad thought, however, the current Duke of York is only 58 years old and the Windsor's have a knack for longevity. I don't think they will save York for Prince Harry and therefore, I believe he will get his own dukedom.

But . . ., look down one more generation and I think the second son of a future monarch could very well become the next Duke of York, Prince Louis of Cambridge.

I suppose there's also a slight possibility that Andrew might unexpectedly fall in love again, marry, and father a son who would inherit his title.

I don't think that would happen but the possibility is there just the same

 

[cmsteepy]

I apologize for those that have seen this post before, however, this is for the benefit of new readers to this thread now that we are at the evening before the announcement and the wedding.


This is a re-post of my prediction back in December, I thought this was a good time to reintroduce my theory.


First, let me say it is strongly believed that Prince Harry and Meghan Markel will be granted the titles of Duke and Duchess of Sussex just before their marriage in May. However, I would like to make the case that the Duke of Clarence should be strongly considered and is my personal preference.

Royal Dukedoms have generally followed one of two patterns:

1) From the "original list of 5" dukedoms established by King Edward III; Cornwall, Clarence, Lancaster, York & Gloucester.

2) Dukedoms or Earldoms from the geographic names of the Heptarchy (the 7 Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms of England prior to the unification under King Egbert); Northumbria, Kent, Wessex, Sussex, Essex, East Anglia & Mercia. Two of these larger kingdoms have been broken down into smaller geographic subdivisions. For example, East Anglia now encompasses the titles of Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridge. Mercia now encompasses Gloucester among others.

When evaluating the "original list of 5" from above, all are in use by a member of the current House of Windsor, except Clarence which is vacant. When evaluating the list from the Heptarchy, nearly all are in use. Kent and Wessex by the House of Windsor, Northumria by the House of Percy, Essex by the House of Capell, East Anglia and its geographic subdivisions are held by the Houses of Howard or Windsor. Mercia, the largest of the former kingdoms, it's geographic subdivisions are already tied up in dukedom or earldom titles, and finally Sussex which is vacant.

At this point, the choice between Clarence and Sussex is a toss-up. Some would (and do) argue that Clarence should not be chosen due to some of the negative character associations connected to this title. However, we have recently learned that Prince Harry and Meghan Markel share common royal ancestry, both descending from Lionel of Antwerp, the 1st Duke of Clarence, the second son of King Edward III (according to American Ancestors by the New England Historic Genealogical Society) View this link https://www.americanancestors.org/up...rkle-chart.pdf This shared common ancestry back to the original Duke of Clarence would seem to make this a very logical choice? In addition, Prince William Henry of Wales was Duke of Clarence before he became King William IV so there are some very positive traits associated with the title as well. For those that still argue against the title of Clarence, I would suggest, what better couple could change the perception of the Clarence title in a more positive light than Prince Harry and Meghan?

As mentioned above, I do believe Sussex is going to be the more likely choice, however, there is an opportunity for the House of Windsor to grant and hold the final title from the “original list of 5” all within the current royal family.

We now wait and see, only about 8 hours to go.