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View Poll Results: What Dukedom will Prince Harry receive upon marriage?
Duke of Clarence 63 25.71%
Duke of Sussex 112 45.71%
Duke of Kendal 8 3.27%
Duke of Ross 8 3.27%
Duke of Hereford 6 2.45%
Duke of Windsor 13 5.31%
Duke of Buckingham 8 3.27%
Something 'New' (Please specify) 8 3.27%
An Earldom (Please specify) 4 1.63%
Nothing - he and Meghan will remain Prince and Princess Henry of Wales 9 3.67%
Other (Please specify) 6 2.45%
Voters: 245. You may not vote on this poll

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  #841  
Old 05-18-2018, 07:08 PM
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Thanks for posting this again. I love the long royal history associated with Clarence: it was one of the original dukedoms, it was created for a royal prince, and has always been a royal title.

I also like the fact that both Harry and Meghan are descendants of Prince Lionel, the 1st Duke of Clarence. But if they do end up as Duke and Duchess of Clarence, I REALLY hope they don't name their oldest son Lionel in his honor.
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  #842  
Old 05-18-2018, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Curbside View Post
Sussex has the advantage of being a dukedom that has never had a duchess. Still, Duke and Duchess of Sussex is a bit of a tongue twister.


It really is.
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  #843  
Old 05-18-2018, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by cmsteepy View Post
That is not a bad thought, however, the current Duke of York is only 58 years old and the Windsor's have a knack for longevity. I don't think they will save York for Prince Harry and therefore, I believe he will get his own dukedom.

But . . ., look down one more generation and I think the second son of a future monarch could very well become the next Duke of York, Prince Louis of Cambridge.
Given the Windsor's longevity, Andrew could very well still be alive 40 years from now - and York would not be available for Louis when he marries. I think it more likely that the next Duke of York will be George's son - or even daughter!
  #844  
Old 05-18-2018, 07:56 PM
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I think the next Duke of York will be Prince Louis...if Andrew has passed.


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  #845  
Old 05-18-2018, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I think the next Duke of York will be Prince Louis...if Andrew has passed.


LaRae
Isn't there an unofficial rule of thumb that if anyone who had a certain territorial designation, in this case York, is still living, that title associated with it may not be used. So if Beatrice and Eugenie are still alive, would they use it?
  #846  
Old 05-18-2018, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RoyalHighness 2002 View Post
Isn't there an unofficial rule of thumb that if anyone who had a certain territorial designation, in this case York, is still living, that title associated with it may not be used. So if Beatrice and Eugenie are still alive, would they use it?
Yes, other forum members have mentioned that. Out of respect for Beatrice and Eugenie the title probably wouldn't be used again during their lifetimes.
  #847  
Old 05-18-2018, 08:18 PM
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cmsteepy, You did an excellent job with the history of Clarence. I shall add that if Clarence is chosen, it will be Clarence, not Clarence and Avondale which Prince Albert Victor had.
  #848  
Old 05-18-2018, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
Yes, other forum members have mentioned that. Out of respect for Beatrice and Eugenie the title probably wouldn't be used again during their lifetimes.
Beatrice and Eugenie will lose the territorial designation when they marry, so I donít see a reason not to use the title again just because they are alive.
  #849  
Old 05-18-2018, 08:51 PM
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I think the thought is that Beatrice and Eugenie would still have a sentimental attachment to the name. There's also the possibility that Beatrice might not marry or either of the two princesses might divorce and revert back to using York.

I don't think Harry will become Duke of York so I guess William will be the one to decide if or when the title is used again.
  #850  
Old 05-18-2018, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmsteepy View Post
That is not a bad thought, however, the current Duke of York is only 58 years old and the Windsor's have a knack for longevity. I don't think they will save York for Prince Harry and therefore, I believe he will get his own dukedom.

But . . ., look down one more generation and I think the second son of a future monarch could very well become the next Duke of York, Prince Louis of Cambridge.
Why wouldn’t Prince Louis take the Duke of Cambridge title since it will be available once his father ascends the throne?
  #851  
Old 05-18-2018, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
Why wouldnít Prince Louis take the Duke of Cambridge title since it will be available once his father ascends the throne?
I think that is a very nice idea. It would keep William's title within his family, just like Charles creating Edward Duke of Edinburgh will keep Philip's title within his.
  #852  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by vandalia View Post
I am new to this forum, but not to the subject.

My best guess is that he will not be created a Duke - at least not yet. He will be created an Earl, and the announcement will state that he will be created Duke of York when that title becomes extinct. Note that "Duke of York" is the traditional title for the second son of a British Monarch, and it is incredibly unlikely that the current Duke of York will have a son. Now, if when that happens, the Duke of Cambridge is King, and he wants HIS second son to be Duke of York, well, that will be a number of years down the road...

Also, keep in mind that the current Earl of Wessex has a higher claim to precedence (i.e., the son of the Monarch) than does "Prince Harry", the grandson of the Monarch. Prince Edward was 7th in the Line of Succession when he married. Prince Henry (Harry) is currently 6th.

The final point is that Prince Charles has strongly advocated for a Royal Family that is strongly focused on the direct line of succession. He may have been limited - for now - in enforcing that with his brother, Prince Andrew, but in this case he has more control.

It would be unexpected, but don't be totally shocked if this happens.

There is no guarantee Andrew will not remarry and have a son, so no it is very unlikely that they will announce Harry will become Duke of York when Andrew passes. Edward's situation is entirely different with the Duke of Edinburgh title. I would be shocked if York is under any consuderation.
  #853  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
Why wouldnít Prince Louis take the Duke of Cambridge title since it will be available once his father ascends the throne?
I think George will be Duke of Cambridge next after William is PoW. So I don't think Cambridge will be available for Louis.


LARae
  #854  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I think George will be Duke of Cambridge next after William is PoW. So I don't think Cambridge will be available for Louis.


LARae
No, as long as William is not King, he will remain Duke of Cambridge, even if he also becomes the Prince of Wales. He will be the Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge.
  #855  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I think George will be Duke of Cambridge next after William is PoW. So I don't think Cambridge will be available for Louis.


LARae

When William is PoW, I believe he will still also be Duke of Cambridge and that title will not merge with the crown until William becomes King.
  #856  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:21 PM
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Ah okay..was thinking he would 'release' the DoC upon being invested as the PoW.


LaRae
  #857  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmsteepy View Post
I apologize for those that have seen this post before, however, this is for the benefit of new readers to this thread now that we are at the evening before the announcement and the wedding.


This is a re-post of my prediction back in December, I thought this was a good time to reintroduce my theory.


First, let me say it is strongly believed that Prince Harry and Meghan Markel will be granted the titles of Duke and Duchess of Sussex just before their marriage in May. However, I would like to make the case that the Duke of Clarence should be strongly considered and is my personal preference.

Royal Dukedoms have generally followed one of two patterns:

1) From the "original list of 5" dukedoms established by King Edward III; Cornwall, Clarence, Lancaster, York & Gloucester.

2) Dukedoms or Earldoms from the geographic names of the Heptarchy (the 7 Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms of England prior to the unification under King Egbert); Northumbria, Kent, Wessex, Sussex, Essex, East Anglia & Mercia. Two of these larger kingdoms have been broken down into smaller geographic subdivisions. For example, East Anglia now encompasses the titles of Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridge. Mercia now encompasses Gloucester among others.

When evaluating the "original list of 5" from above, all are in use by a member of the current House of Windsor, except Clarence which is vacant. When evaluating the list from the Heptarchy, nearly all are in use. Kent and Wessex by the House of Windsor, Northumria by the House of Percy, Essex by the House of Capell, East Anglia and its geographic subdivisions are held by the Houses of Howard or Windsor. Mercia, the largest of the former kingdoms, it's geographic subdivisions are already tied up in dukedom or earldom titles, and finally Sussex which is vacant.

At this point, the choice between Clarence and Sussex is a toss-up. Some would (and do) argue that Clarence should not be chosen due to some of the negative character associations connected to this title. However, we have recently learned that Prince Harry and Meghan Markel share common royal ancestry, both descending from Lionel of Antwerp, the 1st Duke of Clarence, the second son of King Edward III (according to American Ancestors by the New England Historic Genealogical Society) View this link https://www.americanancestors.org/up...rkle-chart.pdf This shared common ancestry back to the original Duke of Clarence would seem to make this a very logical choice? In addition, Prince William Henry of Wales was Duke of Clarence before he became King William IV so there are some very positive traits associated with the title as well. For those that still argue against the title of Clarence, I would suggest, what better couple could change the perception of the Clarence title in a more positive light than Prince Harry and Meghan?

As mentioned above, I do believe Sussex is going to be the more likely choice, however, there is an opportunity for the House of Windsor to grant and hold the final title from the ďoriginal list of 5Ē all within the current royal family.

We now wait and see, only about 8 hours to go.

VERY thorough and well-researched post, cmsteepy. You've made me give serious consideration to the possibility of Clarence which I hadn't before based on its previous holders. We shall know in about 6 hours.
  #858  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
No, as long as William is not King, he will remain Duke of Cambridge, even if he also becomes the Prince of Wales. He will be the Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge.
That doesnít make sense. Prince William will automatically assume his fatherís current titles (other than Prince of Wales) the moment the Queen passes and Prince Charles becomes King and assumes the titles that come with that position. Prince Charles current list of titles arenít assimilated into his role as the Monarch so/why would Williamís? Am I missing something?
  #859  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:46 PM
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When Charles becomes King he automatically loses titles that belong to the first-born son and heir of the monarch: Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles and Prince and Great Steward of Scotland. The titles weren't given to him personally. He only holds them because he is the first-born son and heir of the monarch.

Once Charles is King, William would be the first-born son and heir of the monarch, and he will automatically become Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, etc. It is expected that Charles will also create him Prince of Wales.

But William will NOT lose his Cambridge dukedom, which was given to him specifically by the Queen when he married. It is his until he dies or becomes King. If William dies before Charles, then George will inherit the title and it will be his until he dies or becomes King. If William survives Charles, and becomes King, the Cambridge dukedom will merge with the Crown, meaning William can then give it to someone else.
  #860  
Old 05-18-2018, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
That doesnít make sense. Prince William will automatically assume his fatherís current titles (other than Prince of Wales) the moment the Queen passes and Prince Charles becomes King and assumes the titles that come with that position. Prince Charles current list of titles arenít assimilated into his role as the Monarch so/why would Williamís? Am I missing something?

The Monarch is incapable of being a peer, so when someone becomes Monarch their titles merge with the Crown and become available for use again. Further, all of Charlesí titles are ones (at this point in time) are ones reserved for the heir apparent, so once he is no longer heir apparent he will no longer be eligible to hold them.

In contrast, with Williamís titles, they are held by him specifically and will be held by him until such time as he either becomes King (when they merge with the Crown) or dies (when they are passed on to his heir or, if there is no heir, become extinct). He might gain higher titles (those of the heir apparent) and not use his current titles regularly, but he will still be Duke of Cambridge.
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