Possible Dukedom for Harry and Meghan

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by King of the Jungle

I'm hoping for the Queen to offer a Dukedom to Eugenie, and her other grandchildren on marriage.

She already has three married grandchildren and has only made one a Duke.

There is no way she will be giving titles to Beatrice or Eugenie. That goes against the entire making the family smaller ideas.

Eugenie will be HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs Jack Brookshank after her wedding - dropping the 'of York'. The precedent for that is Princess Alexandra - also a granddaughter of a King but who wasn't given a title on her marriage.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

She already has three married grandchildren and has only made one a Duke.

There is no way she will be giving titles to Beatrice or Eugenie. That goes against the entire making the family smaller ideas.

Eugenie will be HRH Princess Eugenie, Mrs Jack Brookshank after her wedding - dropping the 'of York'. The precedent for that is Princess Alexandra - also a granddaughter of a King but who wasn't given a title on her marriage.

Normally the children of the Prince of Wales are the only grandchildren who get new dukedoms, are they not ?

[Ish]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Normally the children of the Prince of Wales are the only grandchildren who get dukedoms, are they not ?

There is no “normally” - to look for precedent, you have to go back over a hundred years to the reigns of Queen Victoria and Edward VII. You can’t really compare, as things were different then.

It is said that when they married, the Queen offered a title to Princess Alexandra and Angus Ogilvy, but that they turned it down. The same is also said when Anne and Mark Phillips married.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Ish

There is no “normally” - to look for precedent, you have to go back over a hundred years to the reigns of Queen Victoria and Edward VII. You can’t really compare, as things were different then.

It is said that when they married, the Queen offered a title to Princess Alexandra and Angus Ogilvy, but that they turned it down. The same is also said when Anne and Mark Phillips married.

Prince Michael of Kent didn't get a new dukedom when he got married and his older brother inherited an existing dukedom from their father, as was also the case with the current Duke of Gloucester. The only creation of a "new dukedom" for a grandson of a monarch that I can think of in recent times is Prince William being made Duke of Cambridge. The future King George V, as a grandson of a monarch, was made Duke of York, but only after he became the eldest living son of the Prince of Wales. It is unclear to me if he would have been made a duke before his father became king if his older brother had not been deceased.

[santos1988]

I guess I'm in minority but I hope for Duke of Sussex (since I live in Sussex myself)

[tihkon2]

Originally Posted by santos1988

I guess I'm in minority but I hope for Duke of Sussex (since I live in Sussex myself)

Hoping it's Sussex as well. Been 175 years since the last Duke of Sussex died.

[vandalia]

I am new to this forum, but not to the subject.

My best guess is that he will not be created a Duke - at least not yet. He will be created an Earl, and the announcement will state that he will be created Duke of York when that title becomes extinct. Note that "Duke of York" is the traditional title for the second son of a British Monarch, and it is incredibly unlikely that the current Duke of York will have a son. Now, if when that happens, the Duke of Cambridge is King, and he wants HIS second son to be Duke of York, well, that will be a number of years down the road...

Also, keep in mind that the current Earl of Wessex has a higher claim to precedence (i.e., the son of the Monarch) than does "Prince Harry", the grandson of the Monarch. Prince Edward was 7th in the Line of Succession when he married. Prince Henry (Harry) is currently 6th.

The final point is that Prince Charles has strongly advocated for a Royal Family that is strongly focused on the direct line of succession. He may have been limited - for now - in enforcing that with his brother, Prince Andrew, but in this case he has more control.

It would be unexpected, but don't be totally shocked if this happens.

[Curbside]

Sussex has the advantage of being a dukedom that has never had a duchess. Still, Duke and Duchess of Sussex is a bit of a tongue twister.

[tommy100]

I hope its not Clarence purely because it would leave us with the Duchess of Cornwall, The Duke & Duchess of Cambridge and the Duke & Duchess of Clarence!

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Curbside

Sussex has the advantage of being a dukedom that has never had a duchess. Still, Duke and Duchess of Sussex is a bit of a tongue twister.

Ha ha yes it is indeed a bit of a tongue twister!

[Mbruno]

How many hours away are we now from the announcement of the dukedom ?

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

How many hours away are we now from the announcement of the dukedom ?

It's almost 11pm in UK. I believe they announced William's at 8:00am. If that's the case, then 9 hours.

[Curbside]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

How many hours away are we now from the announcement of the dukedom ?

Not sure how many hours, but it certainly feels like an eternity!

[Gawin]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

It's almost 11pm in UK. I believe they announced William's at 8:00am. If that's the case, then 9 hours.

Yes, you're right. William's title was announced at 8:00 a.m. UK time.

[Stuttering_Coco]

I think it'll be Sussex. I thought I heard the Queen will make Meghan Duchess of Sussex so it'd only make sense despite it's similarity to Wessex. If this is wrong or outdated please tell me.

[Gawin]

Originally Posted by Stuttering_Coco

I think it'll be Sussex. I thought I heard the Queen will make Meghan Duchess of Sussex so it'd only make sense despite it's similarity to Wessex. If this is wrong or outdated please tell me.

Do you remember where you heard that?

[Pranter]

There's not been anything released about their titles...so I'd say that was media speculation.


LaRae

[cmsteepy]

Originally Posted by vandalia

I am new to this forum, but not to the subject.

My best guess is that he will not be created a Duke - at least not yet. He will be created an Earl, and the announcement will state that he will be created Duke of York when that title becomes extinct. Note that "Duke of York" is the traditional title for the second son of a British Monarch, and it is incredibly unlikely that the current Duke of York will have a son. Now, if when that happens, the Duke of Cambridge is King, and he wants HIS second son to be Duke of York, well, that will be a number of years down the road...

Also, keep in mind that the current Earl of Wessex has a higher claim to precedence (i.e., the son of the Monarch) than does "Prince Harry", the grandson of the Monarch. Prince Edward was 7th in the Line of Succession when he married. Prince Henry (Harry) is currently 6th.

The final point is that Prince Charles has strongly advocated for a Royal Family that is strongly focused on the direct line of succession. He may have been limited - for now - in enforcing that with his brother, Prince Andrew, but in this case he has more control.

It would be unexpected, but don't be totally shocked if this happens.

That is not a bad thought, however, the current Duke of York is only 58 years old and the Windsor's have a knack for longevity. I don't think they will save York for Prince Harry and therefore, I believe he will get his own dukedom.

But . . ., look down one more generation and I think the second son of a future monarch could very well become the next Duke of York, Prince Louis of Cambridge.

[Gawin]

Originally Posted by cmsteepy

That is not a bad thought, however, the current Duke of York is only 58 years old and the Windsor's have a knack for longevity. I don't think they will save York for Prince Harry and therefore, I believe he will get his own dukedom.

But . . ., look down one more generation and I think the second son of a future monarch could very well become the next Duke of York, Prince Louis of Cambridge.

I suppose there's also a slight possibility that Andrew might unexpectedly fall in love again, marry, and father a son who would inherit his title.

I don't think that would happen but the possibility is there just the same

[cmsteepy]

I apologize for those that have seen this post before, however, this is for the benefit of new readers to this thread now that we are at the evening before the announcement and the wedding.


This is a re-post of my prediction back in December, I thought this was a good time to reintroduce my theory.


First, let me say it is strongly believed that Prince Harry and Meghan Markel will be granted the titles of Duke and Duchess of Sussex just before their marriage in May. However, I would like to make the case that the Duke of Clarence should be strongly considered and is my personal preference.

Royal Dukedoms have generally followed one of two patterns:

1) From the "original list of 5" dukedoms established by King Edward III; Cornwall, Clarence, Lancaster, York & Gloucester.

2) Dukedoms or Earldoms from the geographic names of the Heptarchy (the 7 Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms of England prior to the unification under King Egbert); Northumbria, Kent, Wessex, Sussex, Essex, East Anglia & Mercia. Two of these larger kingdoms have been broken down into smaller geographic subdivisions. For example, East Anglia now encompasses the titles of Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridge. Mercia now encompasses Gloucester among others.

When evaluating the "original list of 5" from above, all are in use by a member of the current House of Windsor, except Clarence which is vacant. When evaluating the list from the Heptarchy, nearly all are in use. Kent and Wessex by the House of Windsor, Northumria by the House of Percy, Essex by the House of Capell, East Anglia and its geographic subdivisions are held by the Houses of Howard or Windsor. Mercia, the largest of the former kingdoms, it's geographic subdivisions are already tied up in dukedom or earldom titles, and finally Sussex which is vacant.

At this point, the choice between Clarence and Sussex is a toss-up. Some would (and do) argue that Clarence should not be chosen due to some of the negative character associations connected to this title. However, we have recently learned that Prince Harry and Meghan Markel share common royal ancestry, both descending from Lionel of Antwerp, the 1st Duke of Clarence, the second son of King Edward III (according to American Ancestors by the New England Historic Genealogical Society) View this link https://www.americanancestors.org/up...rkle-chart.pdf This shared common ancestry back to the original Duke of Clarence would seem to make this a very logical choice? In addition, Prince William Henry of Wales was Duke of Clarence before he became King William IV so there are some very positive traits associated with the title as well. For those that still argue against the title of Clarence, I would suggest, what better couple could change the perception of the Clarence title in a more positive light than Prince Harry and Meghan?

As mentioned above, I do believe Sussex is going to be the more likely choice, however, there is an opportunity for the House of Windsor to grant and hold the final title from the “original list of 5” all within the current royal family.

We now wait and see, only about 8 hours to go.