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View Poll Results: What Dukedom will Prince Harry receive upon marriage?
Duke of Clarence 63 25.71%
Duke of Sussex 112 45.71%
Duke of Kendal 8 3.27%
Duke of Ross 8 3.27%
Duke of Hereford 6 2.45%
Duke of Windsor 13 5.31%
Duke of Buckingham 8 3.27%
Something 'New' (Please specify) 8 3.27%
An Earldom (Please specify) 4 1.63%
Nothing - he and Meghan will remain Prince and Princess Henry of Wales 9 3.67%
Other (Please specify) 6 2.45%
Voters: 245. You may not vote on this poll

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  #761  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
But if Charlotte remains the only daughter of William they can do as before and she will be created Princess Royal. But i think they and the goverment whoch has to change the Charter should decide if a future female Heiress will also become Duchess of Crownwall etc. and will be created Princess of Wales but probably they will not do this until there will be a female Heiress.

The eldest daughter of the monarch usually becomes the Princess Royal (when the the title is available) even if she has younger sisters, so that is pretty much sure for Charlotte at some point.

In addition to the question of dukedoms, it must be noted that, under current rules, Louis' children would be princes/princesses when William is king, but Charlotte's children would not. That made (some) sense under male preference primogeniture, but now Charlotte's children will be higher in the line of succession than Louis'.

I think that the dignity of prince should be now either restricted only to the heir's children (as in current Spanish or Dutch practice), or it should be extended to all grandchildren of the monarch (as in Belgium or in Sweden). The current British practice of extending it to grandchildren in male line only is not consistent with equal primogeniture.
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  #762  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The eldest daughter of the monarch usually becomes the Princess Royal (when the the title is available) even if she has younger sisters, so that is pretty much sure for Charlotte at some point.

In addition to the question of dukedoms, it must be noted that, under current rules, Louis' children would be princes/princesses when William is king, but Charlotte's children would not. That made (some) sense under male preference primogeniture, but now Charlotte's children will be higher in the line of succession than Louis'.

I think that the dignity of prince should be now either restricted only to the heir's children (as in current Spanish or Dutch practice), or it should be extended to all grandchildren of the monarch (as in Belgium or in Sweden). The current British practice of extending it to grandchildren in male line only is not consistent with equal primogeniture.
Because "Princess Royal" is technically a style, not a title, I hope Charlotte receives a dukedom if Louis does. Just as I hope her children are given the style "Prince/Princess" if his children are.

But as you suggest it would be easier to eliminate titles completely and restrict the princely style to the heir's children.
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  #763  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
As I stated before, my personal preference is to do away with royal dukedoms rather than extending them to princesses too in the name of gender equality. The heir could have a special title such as Prince/Princess of Wales and all other members of the Royal House (i.e. HRHs) should be just "Prince/Princess xxx of the United Kingdom". If they want to keep royal dukedoms, make them personal, life peerages, and not hereditary peerages as they are today.
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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
That would also be my preference. I think sons and daughters should be treated alike and there's already a shortage of titles for sons, let alone for daughters. So either do away with titles completely or make grant them for life only, so eventually they revert back to the Crown and can be used again.
I would also like to see British royal dukedoms become for life only, as it would assure that titles that have gained importance in royal history, such as the Dukedom of York, will not be lost to the royal family. However, European monarchies seem to believe that male-line descendants who are not royal ought to still have hereditary titles.

Sweden – Countess/Count Bernadotte af Wisborg
Netherlands – Countess/Count of Orange-Nassau van Amsberg
Denmark – Countess/Count of Rosenborg/Monpezat
Belgium – Princess/Prince (a style or rank) with different hereditary titles and surnames
Luxembourg – Princess/Prince of Nassau

Spain historically also bestowed titles of nobility on non-royal descendants in both male and female line, but the custom has been terminated and the children of King Juan Carlos's uncle, aunts, sisters and daughters have no Spanish titles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
Veering OT a bit, while the son and heir automatically becomes Duke of Cornwall, legislation would be required to allow a daughter and heir to become Duchess since the original charter restricts the title to sons. Just as Andrew's, William's, and Edward's titles are restricted to sons and Harry's probably will be too.

A Charter of 1337
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I think with the eldest child now being the heir, no matter what sex, that eventually the Duke of Cornwall charter will have to be changed to allow for a Duchess of Cornwall (or a female Duke--as the Queen is the Duke of Lancaster.) But not really an issue unless/until George has a girl as his first child. This is a different situation than titles that pass down and eventually are no longer Royal Dukedoms.
I have difficulty understanding even the translation of the Charter, but it seems to say that the king of England's eldest son will inherit the duchy of Cornwall, which will raise issues if Prince George's first child is a girl and his second or third child is a boy.
  #764  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:49 AM
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Not only is it the eldest son but they also have to be the heir apparent.

e.g. if Charles were to predecease the Queen then Andrew would be the eldest living son but ... he wouldn't be heir apparent and so wouldn't be Duke of Cornwall. Likewise William would become heir apparent but not be the eldest living son of the monarch and again he wouldn't be the Duke of Cornwall (or Rothesay, and all the other titles, in Scotland).

This has happened in the past where the eldest son of the monarch died and the grandson became heir apparent but not Duke of Cornwall - George III is the most recent example. From the death of George III's father until the birth of George IV there was no Duke of Cornwall as the heir apparent wasn't the eldest living son of the monarch.

Neither Queen Victoria nor Queen Elizabeth were ever heirs apparent as they could both have been replaced in the line of succession - however unlikely.
  #765  
Old 05-15-2018, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The heir to the throne is already automatically a duke (the Duke of Cornwall) and is often also the Prince of Wales. The innovation would be a female heiress becoming also Princess of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall, in line with the titles for example of Princess of Asturias in Spain and now Princess of Orange in the Netherlands.

As I stated before, my personal preference is to do away with royal dukedoms rather than extending them to princesses too in the name of gender equality. The heir could have a special title such as Prince/Princess of Wales and all other members of the Royal House (i.e. HRHs) should be just "Prince/Princess xxx of the United Kingdom". If they want to keep royal dukedoms, make them personal, life peerages, and not hereditary peerages as they are today.
I mostly meant a situation like there is now, an adult Heir to the Prince of Wales.
  #766  
Old 05-15-2018, 03:37 PM
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Possible Dukedom for Harry and Meghan

Let’s move on. The future titles of the Cambridge children or their children, and the future of the rules regarding the Duke of Cornwall and Prince of Wales titles have nothing to do with the possible Dukedom for Harry and Meghan.
  #767  
Old 05-16-2018, 06:10 AM
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Highly unlikely to happen but.....

Part of me feels that it would be more appropriate for Harry to become the Duke of Edinburgh than Edward. The reasons are that the Duke of Edinburgh's Award Scheme would continue to be more tightly associated with the core of the Royal Family for longer if Harry became its figurehead and that Harry's profile corresponds extremely well to the characteristics of the scheme. Prince Edward and Viscount Severn, even more so, are only going to become more peripheral members of 'the firm' with the passing of time, whereas Harry's likely to be a leading member for the next 30 years.
  #768  
Old 05-16-2018, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy T View Post
Highly unlikely to happen but.....

Part of me feels that it would be more appropriate for Harry to become the Duke of Edinburgh than Edward. The reasons are that the Duke of Edinburgh's Award Scheme would continue to be more tightly associated with the core of the Royal Family for longer if Harry became its figurehead and that Harry's profile corresponds extremely well to the characteristics of the scheme. Prince Edward and Viscount Severn, even more so, are only going to become more peripheral members of 'the firm' with the passing of time, whereas Harry's likely to be a leading member for the next 30 years.
I have to agree with that.
  #769  
Old 05-16-2018, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T View Post
Highly unlikely to happen but.....

Part of me feels that it would be more appropriate for Harry to become the Duke of Edinburgh than Edward. The reasons are that the Duke of Edinburgh's Award Scheme would continue to be more tightly associated with the core of the Royal Family for longer if Harry became its figurehead and that Harry's profile corresponds extremely well to the characteristics of the scheme. Prince Edward and Viscount Severn, even more so, are only going to become more peripheral members of 'the firm' with the passing of time, whereas Harry's likely to be a leading member for the next 30 years.
I disagree-Edward and the Edinburgh title was a decision made nearly 20 years ago. And Edward and Sophie have done a huge amount of work with the Duke of Edinburgh's Award over the years-more than figureheads. Harry has his own initiatives and is not involved in his grandfather's programme.
  #770  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:27 PM
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Do you believe that Prince Harry will be given the title of an earldom instead of a dukedom?
  #771  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Do you believe that Prince Harry will be given the title of an earldom instead of a dukedom?
I doubt it. Prince Edward was a unique cirumstance in receiving an earldom. I fully expect a royal dukedom
  #772  
Old 05-16-2018, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Do you believe that Prince Harry will be given the title of an earldom instead of a dukedom?
No. Why would he? The tradition is for the prince to be given a duchy on marriage.

The exception is Edward. And we know the reason. He is intended to be a duke one day, his duchy is simply not free to be used. That isn't the case with Harry, there is no duchy he is in waiting for.
  #773  
Old 05-17-2018, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem7 View Post
I thought it was the morning of the wedding as well, but apparently it was the day before.

Tweet from Clarence House on April 28, 2011, 7:59 PM UK Time.

Clarence House
‏Verified account @ClarenceHouse
28 Apr 2011
After their marriage, Prince William and Catherine Middleton will become The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge #rw2011 #royalwedding
Can you tell us where you found this? All references I can find indicate BP announced this news the morning of the wedding and a mod indicated they were waiting that morning for the announcement to create the new thread with the new title.
  #774  
Old 05-17-2018, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Can you tell us where you found this? All references I can find indicate BP announced this news the morning of the wedding and a mod indicated they were waiting that morning for the announcement to create the new thread with the new title.
I responded to you in the Harry and Meghan: Wedding Suggestions and Musings. You are correct, it was announced the morning of the wedding. I had the time wrong on the Clarence House Twitter post.
  #775  
Old 05-17-2018, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Gem7 View Post
I responded to you in the Harry and Meghan: Wedding Suggestions and Musings. You are correct, it was announced the morning of the wedding. I had the time wrong on the Clarence House Twitter post.
Ah, I see that now. Thanks for the update and clarification of 11:59 pm PDT
  #776  
Old 05-17-2018, 03:41 PM
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https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/94...hess-connaught
  #777  
Old 05-17-2018, 03:49 PM
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Maybe before they get all in an uproar they should wait to see what title they actually get.


LaRae
  #778  
Old 05-17-2018, 03:53 PM
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Leave it to the Express to have their writers starting to imbibe celebrating the royal wedding too far in advance and as a consequence wrote absolute drivel that has no backbone to it.

Its been discussed here previously and there is no way that HM, The Queen would bestow a duchy on Harry that she has no right to even endow seeing as Connaght is in the Republic of Ireland. It makes about as much sense as HM, The Queen endowing Harry with the grandiose title of The Duke of The Bronx or The Duke of The Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Not going to happen.
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  #779  
Old 05-17-2018, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by angieuk View Post
The Daily Express must be desperate for news stories.

This same issue was brought up in another newspaper a month ago:
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/l...-36804874.html

I really don't think the Queen would be foolish enough to use a title that originated in a country that left the UK almost a century ago.
  #780  
Old 05-17-2018, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by angieuk View Post
Having a hard time believing that the Queen would do any such thing. She's been doing this Queen gig for a long time and has to know that "Connaught" would not go over well. Sounds like an attempt to get people whipped up into a frenzy,with no actual substance.
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