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  #601  
Old 12-30-2017, 07:23 PM
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There was a black journalist talking about Meghanís racial identity and she said because Meghanís light skinned and has white features and a white social circle the journalist didnít think this will be as groundbreaking as some have suggested.

I forget the network but itís one of the cable stations we get in Canada.
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  #602  
Old 12-30-2017, 07:29 PM
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Meghan has spoken about her racial identity plenty. Even with her fair skin she is very clearly biracial and will stand out among white people. I'm sure she was reminded plenty growing up just how black she is at times. Same with folks of clllr. It's one of those harsh realities for biracial kids. I can't say she identified more with the white side when she proudly talks of her black mother and grandmother. She is a mixed raced woman and is proud of both cultures and I will imagine their future kids will be told of their African American side plenty.
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:29 PM
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... In the States while its common for the father to walk the bride down the aisle, its also not uncommon to see the bride walk herself, have both parents walk her down the aisle or her mother (or some other family member)...
I would first hope that Meghan's Dad is able to make it to the wedding to share in the celebration. In the intrusive DF video I've seen of media accosting Tom Markle Sr. in Mexico, he obviously walks with a limp and he may otherwise be in ill-health. I recall how difficult it was for Diana's father to escort her down the aisle. She was probably supporting him as much as he was supporting her. Meghan's Dad may indeed rise to the occasion. However, he will need to visit the U.K. in advance of the wedding, not only to meet Harry and Harry's family, but also likely to participate in a wedding rehearsal.

If Meghan's Dad finds it difficult physically and emotionally (since he seemingly is uncomfortable with a huge spotlight), I would vote for Meghan's dear friend Markus Anderson to escort her down the aisle. Markus has clearly had an important influence on Meghan, and she obviously sees him as a supportive and loving older brother who's wise and fun to be around. She has even called him 'uncle' to her dogs.

Markus Anderson: 5 Things About Meghan Markle Friend | PEOPLE.com
Meghan had this to say about Markus on one of her Instagram posts, celebrating Markus' birthday in August 2016:
“What would I do without you, my loving, supportive, and endlessly fun friend?? I know what….I would be bored, and life would be infinitely less interesting. I love you SO much.”

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  #604  
Old 12-30-2017, 07:38 PM
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My guess is that if her father can't walk her then Doria will. Everyone knows how close they are so it wouldn't even be surprising to see her do it. Kinda would love it.
  #605  
Old 12-30-2017, 07:54 PM
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Meghan has spoken about her racial identity plenty. Even with her fair skin she is very clearly biracial and will stand out among white people. I'm sure she was reminded plenty growing up just how black she is at times. Same with folks of clllr. It's one of those harsh realities for biracial kids. I can't say she identified more with the white side when she proudly talks of her black mother and grandmother. She is a mixed raced woman and is proud of both cultures and I will imagine their future kids will be told of their African American side plenty.
^^ I only mean that Meghan has clearly been confused by our cultural labels and tensions surrounding the manmade construct of 'race.' Of course, she was also nurtured and strengthened by her parents. Despite embracing and being proud of both sides of her heritage, there's no getting away from the fact that 'being white' has benefits in our culture that 'being black' does not. It's a very complicated and emotional thing to talk about. Meghan has said herself in a video posted earlier in this thread (speaking out against racism) that people in our culture "tend to treat you as what you look like." She understands that. She's obviously had friends from all backgrounds, but she's mostly dated white men (her father is white so that's understandable). I see nothing wrong with whomever a person dates or marries, because relationships and love are based on who you come into contact with and who you happen to click with on a number of levels. All I'm saying is that the topic is emotional and not as cut-and-dried as we'd like to think. Halle Berry's mother (who is white) told Halle and her sister that they would always be considered black, likely because they were cafe au lait, a bit too dark, so their mother knew they would only be accepted as black in our culture.

Actually, IMO, Meghan doesn't stand out that much from the royals in terms of her skin color. Her skin is obviously olive-toned, but she could simply pass for Italian or Hispanic. When I first saw Meghan on an E-news report as the new girlfriend of Prince Harry, I simply thought she was what our culture perceives as 'white' at first. Then, as I looked at her more closely and I noticed her very dark eyes, I began to realize she probably has a 'mixed' background. I immediately looked her up on the Internet and learned more about her parents. So no, her background is not immediately apparent. She doesn't actually stand out that much as different among the royals, aside from her unique personality, stylishness and gorgeous looks. Meghan actually has dark-haired good looks that are similar to Kate and to Pippa. That was often remarked upon on social media when H&M's dating relationship was widely publicized.

Everyone's experience is individual. Troian Bellisario (Patrick J. Adams' wife, who's famous for Pretty Little Liars), also has a 'mixed' background, but she completely identifies as white, because that's what she looks like and because she can. Her mother is a very fair-skinned black American with obvious African-American features (her mother's background is Louisiana Creole: African-American, French, other European; and her father is half Persian and half Italian). There are other well known actors who people are surprised to discover have African-American in their background.

Meghan was raised by her black mother and grandmother, so there's no way she would reject her black heritage, but she also to me does not seem to have that strong a grounding in being black. Some people who are as light as Meghan, depending upon their experiences and individual situations, do sometimes embrace their black side more-so, but again it's difficult in our culture. One way Meghan could be seen to embrace her black heritage is to wear her hair natural, with her gorgeous curls (as we've seen in some childhood pictures). She has never been uncomfortable admitting she has curly hair, but she's also said she always wanted straight hair. Overall, Meghan seems very well adjusted as a person, but I still think as a result of how she looks, she identifies more with being white, although she always stresses and embraces being 'bi-racial,' and not wanting to make a choice.

Meghan has starred in two Hallmark movies playing 'white' characters with dark-haired 'white' parents. That's why it was so cool to see the producers of Suits be accepting of Meghan's actual 'bi-racial' identity and cast the black actor, Wendell Pierce, as her character Rachel's father, and her mother as white. It was pretty good casting. But the flack Meghan received from some ignorant fools on social media when they realized she actually has black in her background, was revealing.
  #606  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:05 PM
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So if a black woman wants straight hair she's not embracing her ethnic background enough...she has to prove it by wearing a afro or what?

This is beyond silliness. The only way we will ever get past the stereotypes and racial divides is to stop with this kind of talk. If a woman likes cornrows or an afro then who cares if she's white/black/asian or mixed? Can't she just like it without all the BS that says she's somehow letting her black heritage down if she doesn't act black enough? Where is this test that determines what is black/asian/white enough?


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  #607  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:15 PM
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Hmmm I have been thinking over this whole "family she never had" dust up for a few days. It really rubbed me the wrong way when I initially heard it, so I wanted to sit with it a few days before commenting, so I could think it through, read some other interpretations and not jump to any conclusions. I have to say, it still rubs me the wrong way. I honestly don't think Harry meant anything by it. I don't think he was subtly throwing shade, or sending some kind of veiled message to her family. I just think they asked him a question, that he originally tried to answer in a very general way, then the host pushed a little, so he tried to be a bit more specific and said the first thing that came to mind. Nothing intentional or malicious. But I do think it came across rather thoughtless. If I were her family (and her family includes more than the two loud mouth half siblings) my feelings would be a bit hurt. I wouldn't go running to the media to yell about it, but I could understand feeling slighted.

Meghan herself has said that she had a very happy upbringing. Even when her parents divorced she has stressed that they made sure things stayed the same for her. They had family dinners, trips etc. Again this is what Meghan had said in interviews about her own upbringing. She has talked about how she was close to her grandmother and wore her charm bracelet as part of her costume as Rachel on Suits. We saw she was in family weddings, family get togethers, especially on her mom's side. I'm uncomfortable with suggesting that because her parents were divorced, somehow she didn't have a "family unit". There are plenty of children of divorce who would say they grew up in a secure family unit. Also as an only child I can say, I had loads of large, rowdy, happy family holidays. Cousins, Aunts, Uncles, great aunts and uncles. Even the occasional person you weren't sure how they were related to you but they always came around! LOL! I was truly blessed.

And can we not pretend that the BRF is some shining example of family togetherness and functionality? They are no worse than any other family, so I won't put that on them, but they are certainly no better than any other family. They have their dysfunctions and scandals and falling outs, just like any other family. The family dynamics and traditions might be different than what Meghan is used to (and actually, I think this is what he really meant, because he was answering a question about introducing Meghan to family traditions), but to say "we're the family she never had I suppose" sounds like saying she didn't come from a family, at least not a very good one. It's one thing to say "different", that can mean anything.(Bigger, more structured, etc). "Never had", means it didn't even exist. And that is jut not accurate based on Meghan's own words. A family is not determined by size.

Like I said, I don't think Harry meant that, and I'm sure because he is a very caring person he made sure Doria and Tom knew that. And I'm sure they told him, "no offense taken". It's not the end of the world, and the press will move on. And I would not discount seeing some of Meghan's family, especially the Ragland side, being in attendance. We know they exist, but accept for the married in uncle we haven't heard from them. And the Markel side is more than the two half siblings.
Just catching up on the thread and wanted to say that this is basically how I feel. Even as someone who believes Harry meant no harm or offense, (certainly not towards Meghan's parents), his comment is still off putting to me. And I've heard all the explanations, even agree with some of them. But the fact that it's a quote that can easily be misinterpreted or interpreted differently means that Harry should have chosen his words more carefully. I'm sure he made it a point to let Meghan and her parents know he meant no offense and it's certainly not something I'll hold against him. I see it as a learning experience for him.
  #608  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:15 PM
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I don't think Meghan is identifying more with the white side just cause she dates white men and has straight hair. I know plenty of dark skin black women who do the same. She is biracial and will be quick to tell you. She proud of both sides.
  #609  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:19 PM
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I remember watching one of the E News live shows (I know, I know), but on this segment they actually made a couple of good points. One being that it’s not fair for everyone to put this issue on Meghan and Harry and expect her to be able to change society. It’s a lot of pressure to put on a couple. They aren’t together to change the society’s racial prejudice. They are together because they love each other and they work well together as two people, including the differences in their background. The second is that instead of expecting her to speak out all the time about it, what’s more powerful is her just being there. It will take time, but her being there as a member of the royal family would show children of today that interracial relationships are just like other relationships. They all have their ups and downs, but they are based on love, and there is nothing uncomfortable about it. And hopefully, the mindset of the future generation would do better than those that came before them.
  #610  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:22 PM
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My guess is that if her father can't walk her then Doria will. Everyone knows how close they are so it wouldn't even be surprising to see her do it. Kinda would love it.
If Meghan's father is unable to escort her, Meghan has other choices. I do not think her Uncle Joseph (her mother's older half-brother is close, plus he sold information and pictures to DF, so he's out). However, Meghan has an uncle on her mother's side who is 34 years old, who she is supposed to be fairly close to. And then there's also her nephew (her niece, Ashleigh's brother), who we have never seen and therefore don't know much about. It would be nontraditional for Meghan to choose her Mom to walk her down the aisle, but Meghan is a proud feminist, so that could be a welcome possibility. She could also walk down the aisle by herself, but I think she will choose to be escorted by someone.

Again, if her father is not up to it physically and emotionally, I think that Markus Anderson is the perfect choice.
  #611  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:27 PM
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I don't think Meghan is identifying more with the white side just cause she dates white men and has straight hair. I know plenty of dark skin black women who do the same. She is biracial and will be quick to tell you. She proud of both sides.
Exactly. You are entering dicey territory by suggesting these things speak to someone not being grounded in a certain culture or identity.

A few years ago, someone tweeted Meghan something about how she isn't black and her response was something to effect of "me and my mom would disagree." I've never seen or read anything from her that suggests she sees herself as more white than black.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:27 PM
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Why would it be unusual for her mom? I think out of all those options her mother makes the most sense. We shall see either way but mothers giving away their daughters is not really all that uncommon. I still think her father will.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:34 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised if her father actually was there to walk her down the aisle. But I wouldn't be surprised either if they would chose another option - the traditional swedish custom of walking down the isle together is just one of them. I can see a wedding that is a mix of new and traditional, american and english, their preferences and the church traditions.
  #614  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:35 PM
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Why would it be unusual for her mom? I think out of all those options her mother makes the most sense. We shall see either way but mothers giving away their daughters is not really all that uncommon. I still think her father will.
I agree. Her father is still the most likely choice. Although, I wouldn't be shocked if Meghan walks down the aisle solo.
  #615  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:46 PM
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There was a black journalist talking about Meghanís racial identity and she said because Meghanís light skinned and has white features and a white social circle the journalist didnít think this will be as groundbreaking as some have suggested.

I forget the network but itís one of the cable stations we get in Canada.
Why because Meghan doesn't talk or act like an uneducated black person from on the streets? Please!

Forget that so called journalist!! I have a white social circle and I'm black, light skinned at that.
  #616  
Old 12-30-2017, 08:51 PM
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I remember watching one of the E News live shows (I know, I know), but on this segment they actually made a couple of good points. One being that it’s not fair for everyone to put this issue on Meghan and Harry and expect her to be able to change society. It’s a lot of pressure to put on a couple. They aren’t together to change the society’s racial prejudice. They are together because they love each other and they work well together as two people, including the differences in their background. The second is that instead of expecting her to speak out all the time about it, what’s more powerful is her just being there. It will take time, but her being there as a member of the royal family would show children of today that interracial relationships are just like other relationships. They all have their ups and downs, but they are based on love, and there is nothing uncomfortable about it. And hopefully, the mindset of the future generation would do better than those that came before them.
I totally agree that no pressure one way or the other needs to be placed upon Meghan. The fact that she's such a positive, accomplished person who embraces all sides of her unique background is a blessing that would not have been as easily possible at certain points in the history of America. She is a lovely role model for all people. Still, the very fact of who Meghan is, and who she is marrying sparks conversation, and that's a good thing. Again, none of this is cut-and-dried and simplified, or easy to categorize and talk about. It's wonderful that the royal family is willing to embrace diversity and to loosen their old-fashioned strictures against divorce, as well as being open to Meghan's 'bi-racial' background. She is who she is, and that's great.

I don't think there's any question that Meghan is more easily acceptable since she's fair-skinned. If she was darker-skinned, I'm not so sure she would have been as easily accepted. I know that sounds harsh to say. It's also difficult to prove since Harry fell in love with Meghan. Had Harry been attracted to a darker-skinned lady, I do not think he would have contemplated marriage. Again, it's hard to prove since it didn't happen that way. I'm sure Harry sees Meghan as someone special and so he has the best of everything (has his cake and gets to eat it too, so to speak ). Meghan is absolutely gorgeous most of all, and her mixed heritage is not a drawback because being fair-skinned and 'mixed-race' is a nice, sexy combination. It's Meghan's attractive and uplifting personality that really seals the deal, of course. Harry loves Meghan's Mom and he respects her Mom, so it's not a question of prejudice. But we have to be honest that it would have been harder for Harry to marry a darker-skinned lady. I don't see 'race' as something Meghan needs to speak out about at all. She's spoken out already before she began dating Prince Harry. Royals do not tend to speak out on controversial issues. They have pretty much said all they are going to say about it. Harry was very adamant about Meghan being accepted. His original press statement last November is historic and significant. He drew the line in the sand, and his stance was very admirable. It also doesn't hurt that genealogical research has uncovered Meghan's ancient connection to Harry's family on her paternal side. That's fascinating.

I think H&M's actions, choices and the good they will do in the world is enough for them to tackle. The issue of 'race' is too complicated and emotional for them to take on and debate. It would be a no-win for them. The fact that Meghan is accepted by the royals is enough in the larger sense re all of her unique differences. I'm a little skeptical though about people saying things like "... it's enough for her to be there, and that will set an example for young people that interracial relationships are okay." Although that is true to a large degree, it's still problematic in the sense that some people are so up in arms about Meghan having any small bit of black in her background, even when she doesn't really look black. That says a lot about deep-seated and often unconsciously biased cultural attitudes.

Princess Angela of Liechtenstein is darker-skinned and 11 years older than her husband, Prince Maximilian. But perhaps due to the relative obscurity of the Liechtenstein family, it was not a huge issue in 2000 when they married. They met in 1997 in New York and became good friends first and then fell in love. There were older members of the Liechtensteins who were not as accepting of the union.
  #617  
Old 12-30-2017, 09:01 PM
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I remember watching one of the E News live shows (I know, I know), but on this segment they actually made a couple of good points. One being that itís not fair for everyone to put this issue on Meghan and Harry and expect her to be able to change society. Itís a lot of pressure to put on a couple. They arenít together to change the societyís racial prejudice. They are together because they love each other and they work well together as two people, including the differences in their background. The second is that instead of expecting her to speak out all the time about it, whatís more powerful is her just being there. It will take time, but her being there as a member of the royal family would show children of today that interracial relationships are just like other relationships. They all have their ups and downs, but they are based on love, and there is nothing uncomfortable about it. And hopefully, the mindset of the future generation would do better than those that came before them.
I saw that segment which actually featured a black anchor who is dating a white man. I agreed with their comments of the expectations being placed on Meghan to speak out and/or represent racial issues. Meghan just needs to be Meghan.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:33 PM
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One thing that is beautiful about being black and white (biracial) is that there is such a greater opportunity to experience all the different shades of gray that can be imagined from those two colors. Meghan has taken who she is and embraced it and has tried diligently to use every aspect of her life in a positive manner.

We should all be so lucky.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:40 PM
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I think probably any further discussion about Meghan's race needs to move to the other thread
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:52 PM
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I don't think Meghan is identifying more with the white side just cause she dates white men and has straight hair. I know plenty of dark skin black women who do the same. She is biracial and will be quick to tell you. She proud of both sides.
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Exactly. You are entering dicey territory by suggesting these things speak to someone not being grounded in a certain culture or identity.

A few years ago, someone tweeted Meghan something about how she isn't black and her response was something to effect of "me and my mom would disagree." I've never seen or read anything from her that suggests she sees herself as more white than black.
Well, Meghan may not consciously sense that she gravitates more toward feeling white, but she has spoken about others seeing her as white. Look at the video linked earlier in this thread, where Meghan speaks out against racism. She's spoken about the topic of her identity and she's written about it, and every time her conclusion is that she's proud of her background and she identifies as "mixed-race, or bi-racial," and that her father is white and her mother is proudly African-American. Meghan has clearly said she does not choose one over the other. But our culture often forces a choice. So people like Meghan are often caught in the middle and tend to gravitate in-between, or toward how they are perceived. Meghan seems completely comfortable being 'bi-racial,' as well as accepting and protective of her mother who is unquestionably African-American.

There are absolutely different ways of looking at this issue from all sides (variant views have been expressed and written about). I agree that Meghan is well-adjusted and comfortable with who she is. It's simply that our culture is not comfortable, and that's what she has had to deal with and come to terms with, and I doubt that it has been easy for her. She's written about it very articulately. It is rather ridiculous to see people on all sides (ignorant people saying that Harry is destroying the royal family; and black activists complaining that Meghan is not really black). Everyone seems to have an agenda around it. I'm merely interested in looking at things as honestly as I can and not sweeping anything under the rug.

I would have to get to know Meghan up close and personal to really detect how much she fully embraces being black. IMO, she embraces the black side of her heritage because her mother is black, and the white side because her father is white. She also accepts and realizes that many people see her as white because she is mostly perceived as white based on her looks. She's played white characters, which she would not have been able to do as easily if she were slightly darker.

Meghan's father told her to create her own identity, and to fill in her own box. From Meghan's own comments, she does not feel comfortable choosing either/or (because she does not want to hurt or betray her mother - she wrote about that), so she identifies as 'mixed-race.' But to be honest, most modern humans are mixed with a variety of different ethnic backgrounds. It's our culture that somehow makes the offspring of black-white unions as somehow different and special, and 'bi-racial,' but that complicated view is a result of the pathologies surrounding slavery in America. To be very honest, southern Italians are the product of black-white intermixtures over centuries and the same in Spain, where the African Moors ruled for 100s of years.

No matter what your background is, we are all individuals with varying perceptions and experiences. There is actually not such a thing as different races. There's only the human race, made up of people from different tribal groups, or ethnic backgrounds. And among humans there are only 4 blood types. Skin color has miniscule relevance, especially since in many families, people come in all different shades. But we are stuck with a subject that is full of falsehoods and contradictions, and that's why it's so complicated to talk about.
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