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  #3261  
Old 05-16-2018, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunnystar View Post
Frankly, I am willing to cut Sr a bit more slack than a lot of other folks in this thread, who I suspect would have him tarred and feathered if that was still done in this day and age. My parents are about the same age as Sr and sometimes there is just no talking any sense with them, no matter how much my brothers and I try to tell them to just STOP. They, especially my dad, can be a stubborn old ass. We can offer advice but that doesn't mean they'll take it, or they might front like everything is fine, even when it's not. I get the impression Meghan is close to her dad the same way I'm close to my parents - sure, I love them, but I don't talk to them every day or even every week. It's fine and if I ever got married, sure, I would want my dad to walk me down the aisle, but, for the most part, I leave my parents to their own devices and they leave me to mine. I can absolutely envision Sr being a proud man who got duped by some sleazy paparazzi and didn't want to let onto Meghan just how badly he screwed up. I know my parents wouldn't either. And, I can absolutely see how all of this played out in the past couple weeks, and especially the older kids shenanigans, causing a heart attack. I would guess that Sr and Meghan probably aren't so close that he would open up to her and admit an error (or several) in judgment. It doesn't make him a bad person, or a scammer, or anything, really.
This view of him isn't really helping him, imo. He may be as you say, but that's still ... not good. He's not to the level of Sam and Tom Jr but his communication with TMZ (some of which is captured on audio clips TMZ has posted) is problematic and is just adding fuel to the fire.

He's hurting his daughter and literally causing her immense media scrutiny, pain and heartache the week of her wedding into the most high profile family in the world.

Meanwhile, her mother hasn't behaved in this way but we're supposed to act like it's impossible for him to be a good, level headed person when Doria has clearly been able to do it?

It diminishes her efforts to do the right thing by just excusing such behavior from him.

Quote:
I am really appalled by a lot of the judgment going on in this thread. It is beyond disturbing to me how many people are jumping to some pretty strong conclusions about Sr's motivations and actions. For all we know, Sr could be talking to a friend about his health and that person could be sharing the info exclusively with TMZ. We simply DO NOT KNOW. Goodness knows what all of us would be found guilty of simply by our associations with various family and friends in our lives.

I have been a member of TRF for a long time and never have I seen such utter vitriol and hyperbole as I've seen in this thread lately, and I really wish people would just take a breath before hitting that "reply" button.
Here's the issue - TMZ has actual audio that they've posted of Sr talking to them.

So we do know quite a bit.
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  #3262  
Old 05-16-2018, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaira View Post
Ok, I really doubt TMZ would run with this story if there was any chance Markle Sr was not directly speaking to them. Harvey isn't a dumb man. He would have verified it was really Tom. Now, he wouldn't care if Tom was of sound mind, but he would have made sure it was indeed the person he is saying it is.

If there is concern someone is speaking on his behalf, then the palace needs to send a staffer down to get to the bottom of the situation.
I can't see how KP sending anyone to figure things out is a good solution. Sr is 1) an American, 2) not the one marrying into the BRF. Both of those facts alone would cause a media frenzy about taxpayer dollars blah blah blah from the media and tabloids. It's better to just keep their distance as they have and not comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FashionMaven View Post
Here's the issue - TMZ has actual audio that they've posted of Sr talking to them.

So we do know quite a bit.
Well, so he is speaking to them (I try to not follow clickbait to gossip rags), which is a shame. I still stand by my original position that there might not be much Meghan can do to convince her dad to stop talking to TMZ. I'm reminded of my mom inserting herself into a FB discussion about US race relations a couple years ago and even though one of my brothers and I called her up, appalled, and made her take down her comments, she still didn't quite get just why were so upset with her, and then she did it again a few weeks later, and this time our dad was basically "shut up, she is an adult." All my brother and I could do was shake our heads and let her damage her relationship with the spouses of some of our cousins. C'est la vie. That might be where Meghan is at with respect to her dad, even if all of this is massively stressful and casting a shadow over this week before the wedding.
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  #3263  
Old 05-16-2018, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
A lot of this stuff will be left to the past once the official wedding ceremonial proceedings get underway.
I hope you and your family are doing well at this time dman.

And yes I agree that this episode will become a footnote in H&M's story. The wedding is the first step to that.
  #3264  
Old 05-16-2018, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnystar View Post
Well, so he is speaking to them (I try to not follow clickbait to gossip rags), which is a shame. I still stand by my original position that there might not be much Meghan can do to convince her dad to stop talking to TMZ. I'm reminded of my mom inserting herself into a FB discussion about US race relations a couple years ago and even though one of my brothers and I called her up, appalled, and made her take down her comments, she still didn't quite get just why were so upset with her, and then she did it again a few weeks later, and this time our dad was basically "shut up, she is an adult." All my brother and I could do was shake our heads and let her damage her relationship with the spouses of some of our cousins. C'est la vie. That might be where Meghan is at with respect to her dad, even if all of this is massively stressful and casting a shadow over this week before the wedding.
Well yeah - I don't think I disagree with you on that. I don't know how KP or Meghan can solve this short of sending a representative to "help" Sr. But there is a risk there because he could still go to TMZ and claim the RF was trying to "control" him. Part of the reason why I'm so upset with Sr for talking to TMZ is because now he really cannot be trusted anymore by the BRF. He's made himself as radioactive and untouchable as his other daughter and son, Sam and Tom Jr..

Harry has spent his life hating the Paparazzi and how they have hunted his family, contributing to the death of his mother (some still say caused her death). And now Tom Sr does this. He worked intentionally with some and is now calling/conversing constantly with the other.

Does he have zero self awareness?

I get it that he probably doesn't get this - but he still put his needs and his upset over how he looked in the paps above his daughter. That's what set all of this off. Did that make him horrible? No - and if he had just shut his mouth and then gotten on the plane and walked his daughter down the aisle, all of this drama would have been avoided. Instead he tells TMZ he isn't going to the wedding (which is how Meghan found out) and then flip flopped and then had chest pains and then the surgery. If the surgery bit is true (which we don't necessarily know).

Also - I don't follow TMZ - but the clips were all over twitter. Hard to miss them.
  #3265  
Old 05-16-2018, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Does he have zero self awareness?
I ask myself the same thing, FashionMaven.
  #3266  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:02 PM
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TMZ knows if Sr and Sam are in the hospital or recovering. This outfit can get a hold of an autopsy report.


Doria being there must be a great comfort for Meghan. And Doria may be giving her some straight talk about her dad and the rest of the Markles. KP could take back control of this. Meghan could tell Sr someone else will give her away, rest up because of the surgery and she and Harry visit after the wedding, a couple of days later. KP then announces Dad won't come and the royal couple will visit. Who is the stand in Father of the Bride. Charles would be symbolic to show the BRF supports Meghan. It details the half sibs too.
  #3267  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
TMZ knows if Sr and Sam are in the hospital or recovering. This outfit can get a hold of an autopsy report.


Doria being there must be a great comfort for Meghan. And Doria may be giving her some straight talk about her dad and the rest of the Markles. KP could take back control of this. Meghan could tell Sr someone else will give her away, rest up because of the surgery and she and Harry visit after the wedding, a couple of days later. KP then announces Dad won't come and the royal couple will visit. Who is the stand in Father of the Bride. Charles would be symbolic to show the BRF supports Meghan. It details the half sibs too.
I say let Doria walk her down the aisle. Even Senior supports the idea.
  #3268  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FashionMaven View Post
Well yeah - I don't think I disagree with you on that. I don't know how KP or Meghan can solve this short of sending a representative to "help" Sr. But there is a risk there because he could still go to TMZ and claim the RF was trying to "control" him. Part of the reason why I'm so upset with Sr for talking to TMZ is because now he really cannot be trusted anymore by the BRF. He's made himself as radioactive and untouchable as his other daughter and son, Sam and Tom Jr..

Harry has spent his life hating the Paparazzi and how they have hunted his family, contributing to the death of his mother (some still say caused her death). And now Tom Sr does this. He worked intentionally with some and is now calling/conversing constantly with the other.

Does he have zero self awareness?

I get it that he probably doesn't get this - but he still put his needs and his upset over how he looked in the paps above his daughter. That's what set all of this off. Did that make him horrible? No - and if he had just shut his mouth and then gotten on the plane and walked his daughter down the aisle, all of this drama would have been avoided. Instead he tells TMZ he isn't going to the wedding (which is how Meghan found out) and then flip flopped and then had chest pains and then the surgery. If the surgery bit is true (which we don't necessarily know).

Also - I don't follow TMZ - but the clips were all over twitter. Hard to miss them.

The paps were an indirect cause of her death. The driver being drunk was a direct cause. Honestly I think some of the paps should of been charged with at least a civil crime if not criminal though...since they were involved.

Perhaps TMZ realizes there is no way in heck Harry would ever work with them on interviews so they don't care that they ruin more legitimate media sources chances.

Harry (and William) are already so wary of the media ...this is just going to entrench them more against them. Killing the golden goose...not smart.


LaRae
  #3269  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
The paps were an indirect cause of her death. The driver being drunk was a direct cause. Honestly I think some of the paps should of been charged with at least a civil crime if not criminal though...since they were involved.

Perhaps TMZ realizes there is no way in heck Harry would ever work with them on interviews so they don't care that they ruin more legitimate media sources chances.

Harry (and William) are already so wary of the media ...this is just going to entrench them more against them. Killing the golden goose...not smart.


LaRae
Good post, LaRae. and I would say Harvey Levin may be a sleazy journalist but he's a lawyer also so he knows what he can get away with. And the paps WERE charged in France regarding Diana----nothing ever came of it, though.
  #3270  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess of Durham View Post
The more I read about Markle Snr, the more I think he may be the kind of person who makes a habit of "running" when things get sticky. We don't know if he was the "runner" in both of his marriages, but ...... and he took off for Mexico. I think when the going gets tough he may "run". If he moved to Mexico to trim expenses he would not have kept the house in LA.
Excellent points! Very much the very issues that keep going through my mind.
  #3271  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FashionMaven View Post
Well yeah - I don't think I disagree with you on that. I don't know how KP or Meghan can solve this short of sending a representative to "help" Sr. But there is a risk there because he could still go to TMZ and claim the RF was trying to "control" him. Part of the reason why I'm so upset with Sr for talking to TMZ is because now he really cannot be trusted anymore by the BRF. He's made himself as radioactive and untouchable as his other daughter and son, Sam and Tom Jr..

Harry has spent his life hating the Paparazzi and how they have hunted his family, contributing to the death of his mother (some still say caused her death). And now Tom Sr does this. He worked intentionally with some and is now calling/conversing constantly with the other.

Does he have zero self awareness?

I get it that he probably doesn't get this - but he still put his needs and his upset over how he looked in the paps above his daughter. That's what set all of this off. Did that make him horrible? No - and if he had just shut his mouth and then gotten on the plane and walked his daughter down the aisle, all of this drama would have been avoided. Instead he tells TMZ he isn't going to the wedding (which is how Meghan found out) and then flip flopped and then had chest pains and then the surgery. If the surgery bit is true (which we don't necessarily know).

Also - I don't follow TMZ - but the clips were all over twitter. Hard to miss them.
Sometimes, at that age, parents DON'T have a lot of self-awareness, especially when they have other people reinforcing the bad choices, and it certainly sounds like Sam, at first, had some influence over Sr's choices (the fake photos with the paparazzo).

I don't know that I think he is entirely radioactive. It's all going to depend, I think, on where the truth lies in all the stories over the last few weeks, and both Meghan and Harry certainly know far more than the rest of us, I'd guess. What I will say is that the circle of trust has most certainly been violated and it will have to be slowly re-built with both Meghan and Harry. It can be done, and I fully expect that there will be some olive branch extended after the wedding. I don't see Meghan cutting her dad out of her life much beyond the level of involvement and contact they had prior to this PR disaster.
  #3272  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:36 PM
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Yes I knew some were charged but from what I understand those were dropped. A shame. At the least the photographers who took pictures while she was dying should of had something done to them...the indecency alone....



LaRae
  #3273  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:45 PM
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I don't know if I have been vetted to show links yet, but I can tell you this-----


I just read that John Cena has offered to walk Meghan down the aisle if her father doesn't show up. He was co-hosting the Today show with Kathie Lee (I think yesterday) when she suggested he would be a perfect stand-in for Markle Sr. He actually said he would do it.

"Yeah, I could do it. I could hop on a plane and be there in a few days."
Very noble of the man, I must admit.

Don't know whether to laugh or consider that seriously or whatever.

Anyway----just wanted to throw that out there.
  #3274  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:04 AM
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I fail to see what Mr. Markle did was so horrible. And I think the royal family or Meghan could have done more to help the guy. Megan is a millionaire. Apparently the man has been hounded by the press and he was told they would publish unflattering photos unless he gave them other photos.

Dianne staged photos with the paps all the time. He wasn’t staging photos of Meghan. The man never asked for any of this or to be in the public eye. So he wanted more flattering photos.

He has been tar and feathered as for telling TMC he won’t go and the heart sugery I can see why he would want to explain himself since the public will know. The family squabbles the constant media attention lead to this health stuff.

The man is not giving interviews discussing the private relationship with his daughter or anything like that he refused it.

His daughter and Harry do have responsiblities towards him and should have done more to protect the guy.

Calling him a terrible guy got the staged photos is ridiculous his mother did the same. And both parents went to private issues of the marriage. The father telling TMC he is having heart surgery hardly makes him unforgivable.

Remember Mr. Markle asked for none of this.
  #3275  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:28 AM
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And I will add this why is her mother and father the only two family members invited that is a lot for either them to go to wedding no no one. She has an Uncle who is a diplomat who helped her get a job why wasn’t he invited he is fairly respectable and celebrities in it could have provided needed support. Middleton’s crazy uncle was invited to her wedding and that reduced family issues. They created a lot of this by frankly snubbing her family.
  #3276  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
While I don’t agree with what he did, no one from the BRF will confront him, especially not Harry. For the simple reason that Meghan wants him there.
I did not phrase that well but what I should have said is he feared a confrontation with Harry and the BRF. He took the coward route out.
  #3277  
Old 05-17-2018, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
And I will add this why is her mother and father the only two family members invited that is a lot for either them to go to wedding no no one. She has an Uncle who is a diplomat who helped her get a job why wasn’t he invited he is fairly respectable and celebrities in it could have provided needed support. Middleton’s crazy uncle was invited to her wedding and that reduced family issues. They created a lot of this by frankly snubbing her family.
We don't know who in the family has been invited besides Tom Snr and Doria. There are rumours of nephew, nieces, and an uncle on the Ragland side being in London. We won't know until Saturday. And the diplomat uncle gave contact details of Tom Snr to the media.
  #3278  
Old 05-17-2018, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
I fail to see what Mr. Markle did was so horrible. And I think the royal family or Meghan could have done more to help the guy. Megan is a millionaire. Apparently the man has been hounded by the press and he was told they would publish unflattering photos unless he gave them other photos.

Dianne staged photos with the paps all the time. He wasn’t staging photos of Meghan. The man never asked for any of this or to be in the public eye. So he wanted more flattering photos.

He has been tar and feathered as for telling TMC he won’t go and the heart sugery I can see why he would want to explain himself since the public will know. The family squabbles the constant media attention lead to this health stuff.

The man is not giving interviews discussing the private relationship with his daughter or anything like that he refused it.

His daughter and Harry do have responsiblities towards him and should have done more to protect the guy.

Calling him a terrible guy got the staged photos is ridiculous his mother did the same. And both parents went to private issues of the marriage. The father telling TMC he is having heart surgery hardly makes him unforgivable.

Remember Mr. Markle asked for none of this.
And his daughter asked for this the week of her wedding? Seriously? She’s the only victim here, so let’s try not to blame the victim. Tom made his bed, and now he has to lay in it. It’d be bad enough if he did it any other week, but literally DAYS before her wedding, she finds out from TMZ that her dad is not walking her down the aisle after it was publicly announced. Seriously, what has she ever done to him to deserve this type of treatment? Does he not have a responsibility to his daughter to tell her instead of TMZ?He’s the one that screwed up with the paparazzi and made Harry and Meghan look like fools for asking for his privacy. And then, he goes and humiliate his daughter further. He can hide in Mexico for the rest of his life, but she has to face her in-laws and the British people.

And Samantha did say that all the Markle were advised not to speak to the press by KP. If he wanted additional help and had trouble, all he had to do was tell his daughter. Doria was provided with security when the engagement announcement came. It wasn’t provided to him because no one knew where he was then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
And I will add this why is her mother and father the only two family members invited that is a lot for either them to go to wedding no no one. She has an Uncle who is a diplomat who helped her get a job why wasn’t he invited he is fairly respectable and celebrities in it could have provided needed support. Middleton’s crazy uncle was invited to her wedding and that reduced family issues. They created a lot of this by frankly snubbing her family.
Of all the family that we know isn’t invited, none of them has seen Meghan for YEARS. Why is she obligated to invite people that she has seen for years? Why should she even consider ever being in the same room as those that have threw vitriol her way in public every chance they get? They are not family at that point. They simply don’t have a relationship.
  #3279  
Old 05-17-2018, 02:01 AM
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People are often hopeful that their family members over come any mental illness or personality disorders. Some Markle family members might offer compassion towards the ones acting so crazy and horrid and hold out an olive branch in the future.
Forgiveness is always a possibility, with families especially.
  #3280  
Old 05-17-2018, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
And his daughter asked for this the week of her wedding? Seriously? She’s the only victim here, so let’s try not to blame the victim. Tom made his bed, and now he has to lay in it. It’d be bad enough if he did it any other week, but literally DAYS before her wedding, she finds out from TMZ that her dad is not walking her down the aisle after it was publicly announced. Seriously, what has she ever done to him to deserve this type of treatment? Does he not have a responsibility to his daughter to tell her instead of TMZ?He’s the one that screwed up with the paparazzi and made Harry and Meghan look like fools for asking for his privacy. And then, he goes and humiliate his daughter further. He can hide in Mexico for the rest of his life, but she has to face her in-laws and the British people.

And Samantha did say that all the Markle were advised not to speak to the press by KP. If he wanted additional help and had trouble, all he had to do was tell his daughter. Doria was provided with security when the engagement announcement came. It wasn’t provided to him because no one knew where he was then.
I think a good example of how to do something that isn't great is actually from the current docu-series on Serena Williams.

Her father pulled out of the wedding mere hours before he was to walk her down the aisle. He reached out to her, told her he loved her and why he just mentally and emotionally could not be there for her. It was awful and sad, but folks have stuff going on inside them sometimes. I can absolutely believe that in addition to the possible heart issues, Markle Sr has anxiety issues that would make such an event very hard for him.

All Tom Sr had to do was reach out and talk to his daughter. IMO, what has made this situation worse is the using the media as a way to communicate to his daughter. The photos were well-meaning, but dumb. The moves of a man who did not properly think through his actions although I have to believe they were done in love.

But what makes this situation so dastardly is the continued use of an outlet such as TMZ versus simply talking to his daughter and only his daughter and allowing her the ability to ensure this isn't disruptive to him or to the wedding, a national/global event. By this circus with TMZ he has not only made life hard on his daughter, but also for himself. One call to TMZ? OK, sure I guess I can see where in desperation he would take that call. But the 4-5 calls? At some point he is actively making decisions that are causing extreme pain to his daughter and has to be aware of the consequences of his actions.

There was a better path for him if the pressure was simply too much. He has thus far decided to not use it.
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