Meghan Markle: Coat of Arms Discussion - Page 9

jacqui24 · #**161** 05-23-2018, 12:31 PM

See the design for the wedding china.

Sky News had the Principal of Institute of Heraldic and Genealogical Studies on today, and he said it's uncommon to issue Coat of Arms to a non-British subject. But Meghan is a now a British subject via marriage.

So maybe announcement on her birthday?

Mbruno · #**162** 05-23-2018, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osipi

Perhaps its a wise step to not present The Duchess of Sussex's coat of arms until after she actually is The Duchess of Sussex.

This way, with it not being granted to "Meghan Markle", it quashes any possibility that other "Markles" could lay claim to using it.

It shouldn’t take long though for the Sussex LPs to be gazetted, should it ? I mean, how long did it take for the Duke of Cambridge ?

jacqui24 · #**163** 05-23-2018, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno

It shouldn’t take long though for the Sussex LPs to be gazetted, should it ? I mean, how long did it take for the Duke of Cambridge ?

What are LPs?

windsorgirl · #**164** 05-23-2018, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacqui24

What are LPs?

Letters patent, which are orders from The Queen as I understand it.

jacqui24 · #**165** 05-23-2018, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsorgirl

Letters patent, which are orders from The Queen as I understand it.

Making them Duke and Duchess I assume? Would it have their coats of arms on it?

Osipi · #**166** 05-23-2018, 12:53 PM

Actually, I think by looking at the Instrument of Consent for the marriage, we may be getting a general idea of what will be incorporated into Meghan's coat of arms and her conjoined one with Harry. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that Meghan's individual coat of arms will be released at the same time their conjoined coat of arms is. They are issued by the College of Arms with the Queen's permission so I don't see LPs being issued in regards to coat of arms.

For Harry and Meghan on the Instrument of Consent we have:

On the right side of the text, there’s a floral design directly referencing Meghan and Harry’s union. The sweet image features a rose, which is the national flower of the U.S., flanked by two golden poppies, the state flower of Meghan’s home state of California. Appearing between the two flowers, and directly under the rose, is the Welsh leek, which is paired together with Prince Harry’s label.

In one last touching detail, underneath the whole design are olive branches, which are featured in the Great Seal of the United States.

Its a good thing that the College of Arms and the Queen had decided *not* to issue a family coat of arms to Meghan's dad. Her half sister is already bleating to the press how *awful* it is that they've been snubbed out of a family coat of arms and feels that the Markles are just as good as the BRF. Go figure.

Mbruno · #**167** 05-23-2018, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacqui24

Making them Duke and Duchess I assume? Would it have their coats of arms on it?

No, those are two separate things. I was just replying to Osipi’s comment.

Gawin · #**168** 05-23-2018, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbruno

It shouldn’t take long though for the Sussex LPs to be gazetted, should it ? I mean, how long did it take for the Duke of Cambridge ?

William was created Duke of Cambridge on April 29, 2011. The Letters Patent were dated May 26, almost a month later.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/...798/page/10297

Madame Verseau · #**169** 05-23-2018, 06:54 PM

If Letters Patent were sent out for Wallis Simpson not to be HRH, I would think LPs would be sent for Meghan to get a C of A.

Osipi · #**170** 05-23-2018, 07:31 PM

The difference is that its the Queen's will and pleasure that is known by letters patent and I'm sure that one is going to be issued by HM, The Queen to officially state that Harry has been created the Duke of Sussex.

Its the College of Arms that grants heraldic coat of arms, of course with the Queen's permission, to those that apply, are deemed suitable for one and then draw up the coat of arms themselves with the heraldic features. No letters patent needed for these.

As it looks now, Meghan will only be deemed suited to have her own coat of arms solely because she is married to The Duke of Sussex. If she had applied for one as Meghan Markle, she most likely would have been refused. As it stands right now, her father, Thomas Markle, Sr. didn't even apply for a coat of arms and from what I've read, there's nothing in his background that actually could prove that he's eligible for one. The Queen granting Thomas Markle, Sr. or Meghan Markle a coat of arms isn't done. That is handled by the College of Arms.

The letters patent that dealt with Wallis Simpson solely dealt with her not having a HRH which is the prerogative of the monarch. Most likely, David as The Duke of Windsor had his own coat of arms and Wallis was entitled have a conjoined coat of arms with her husband. I have no clue if they did or didn't have a coat of arms but that's a question for a different thread methinks.

Tatiana Maria · #**171** 05-23-2018, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacqui24

Sky News had the Principal of Institute of Heraldic and Genealogical Studies on today, and he said it's uncommon to issue Coat of Arms to a non-British subject. But Meghan is a now a British subject via marriage.

He may have meant to say that Meghan is now a British royal via marriage. As neither British citizenship nor the status of British subject can be passed on via marriage since 1983, the Duchess of Sussex remains a US citizen for the moment.

https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-...sh-citizenship
https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-...ritish-subject

Nevertheless, as described by the College of Arms, US citizens may be granted honorary arms if they descend from a subject of the British crown.

FAQs: heraldry - College of Arms
Granting of Arms - College of Arms

Osipi · #**172** 05-23-2018, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvinking

And what about her royal Cypher (Monogram). How will it look like? Will she go with R for Rachel or M for Meghan with the coronet?

I think that Harry and Meghan's joint cypher is what was used on the goodie bags that were given out to wedding guest. In this link, there's a picture of the bags. Definitely used H&M.

Guests Selling Gift Bags After Prince Harry, Meghan Markle Wedding | PEOPLE.com

wbenson · #**173** 05-25-2018, 10:35 AM

https://www.royal.uk/her-royal-highn...ssex-coat-arms

A Coat of Arms has been created for The Duchess of Sussex. The design of the Arms was agreed and approved by Her Majesty The Queen and Mr. Thomas Woodcock (Garter King of Arms and Senior Herald in England), who is based at the College of Arms in London.

The blue background of the shield represents the Pacific Ocean off the California coast, while the two golden rays across the shield are symbolic of the sunshine of The Duchess's home state. The three quills represent communication and the power of words.

Beneath the shield on the grass sits a collection of golden poppies, California's state flower, and wintersweet, which grows at Kensington Palace.
It is customary for Supporters of the shield to be assigned to Members of the Royal Family, and for wives of Members of the Royal Family to have one of their husband’s Supporters and one relating to themselves. The Supporter relating to The Duchess of Sussex is a songbird with wings elevated as if flying and an open beak, which with the quill represents the power of communication.

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Image available here.

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It's a relief that we didn't have to wait a year or more.

Curbside · #**174** 05-25-2018, 10:42 AM

That's nice. Seems entirely appropriate. I like the quills representing communication. She isn't just a former actor, she has used her voice in print and speech to advocate for important causes.

Osipi · #**175** 05-25-2018, 10:56 AM

They did a fantastic job representing Meghan. Its totally descriptive of her. Not only where she comes from and adds in the sweet meaning of Nott Cott and their garden, but it also reflects Meghan as a person and her talent and ability to exert her influence in the world through words.

Very well done!

Cocoasneeze · #**176** 05-25-2018, 10:58 AM

I like all the symbolism. The quills for communication are especially nice. It's also great, that it's hers, not tied to any family member.

Curbside · #**177** 05-25-2018, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvinking

The Duchess of Sussex Royal Cyper (Monogram)
Picture in the link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeC9zSuWAAAwloA.jpg

Pretty! Only thing about the coat of arms...I'm worried about the bird. It appears to be strangled by the crown!

loonytick · #**178** 05-25-2018, 11:09 AM

That was surprisingly fast! Very nice.

alvinking · #**179** 05-25-2018, 11:11 AM

The duchess of Sussex Bio in her official webpage has been updated to include write-up about her acting career, after the first reveal there were criticisms about the page skipping over that part of her live

https://www.royal.uk/duchess-sussex

Cocoasneeze · #**180** 05-25-2018, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvinking

The duchess of Sussex Bio in her official webpage has been updated to include write-up about her acting career, after the first reveal there were criticisms about the page skipping over that part of her live

https://www.royal.uk/duchess-sussex

It was always there, the royal reporters criticizing didn't click to see her biography, they thought it was just one page.