Meghan Markle: Coat of Arms Discussion

[Rudolph]

Originally Posted by Ceara09

Uhm. Hello! I'm really curious about Meghan's coat of arms that it's impaled with Harry's coat of arms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a wife's coat of arms is impaled if the arms is not hers personally rather it is her paternal coat of arms. If it is her personal coat of arms, it is shown as an inescutcheon. However, her father was not granted a coat of arms. Perhaps, the grant for her father's coat of arms is still pending? Or perhaps, she is not yet a British citizen?

You were right

[wyevale]

the College of Arms fudged it

Yes.. since this is ROYAL Heraldry 'they write the rules'..

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by wyevale

The symbolism is excellent, but [imo] it just isn't visually appealing.

Why are there no martlets, the heraldic bird of the county of Sussex?

Do they typically add elements of the county?

[Pranter]

Still wondering at the crown on the head vs crown around the neck...so far ISTM that all the men have the crown on the head ..all the ladies have crown around the neck...is it done that way to signify gender?


LaRae

[Ish]

Originally Posted by Pranter

Still wondering at the crown on the head vs crown around the neck...so far ISTM that all the men have the crown on the head ..all the ladies have crown around the neck...is it done that way to signify gender?


LaRae

I think you might be reading too much into this. If you look at the arms of men in the BRF, they have supporters with the Crown around their neck as well. Likewise, if you look at Beatrice, Eugenie, Anne, etc, they all have the lion with the Crown on its head.

[Jacknch]

Isn't the crown issue simple that the lion represents the Crown/royal family/monarchy being a "royal lion" and that the opposing supporter represents the non-royal symbol?

[cepe]

The Coat of Arms of the UK the supporter on the right is a unicorn with a crown around its neck. Nothing to do with gender.

It is taken from the original CoA of Scotland - again nothing to do with gender,

I agree with Ish - too much is being read into this.

I havent read everything in this thread so apologies if this is a repeat, but here is the page from the College of Arms which explains all the Coat of Arms for Cambridges. It helps explain whats going on with duchess of Sussex


Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - College of Arms

[Humbugged]

Originally Posted by cepe

The Coat of Arms of the UK the supporter on the right is a unicorn with a crown around its neck. Nothing to do with gender.

It is taken from the original CoA of Scotland - again nothing to do with gender,

I agree with Ish - too much is being read into this.

I havent read everything in this thread so apologies if this is a repeat, but here is the page from the College of Arms which explains all the Coat of Arms for Cambridges. It helps explain whats going on with duchess of Sussex


Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - College of Arms

And when north of the border the position of the lion and the unicorn switch along with the crown in the middle changing to the Crown of Scotland (the Duke of Hamilton's main job is to cart the thing about at the opening of Holyrood ) as well as the Unicorn wearing the crown on it s head as well as the coronet round its neck

[Madame Verseau]

I love Meghan's coat of arms and her cypher. It's so representative of her. I am surprised the supporter is not the bald eagle, the national bird of the US or a rose for America's national flower. . And no reference to the Markles, like Kate referenced her family. Sam ranted about this before the reveal and I'm surprised she and the rest of the Markles are silent now. Overall it's lovely.

[Curbside]

Originally Posted by Madame Verseau

I love Meghan's coat of arms and her cypher. It's so representative of her. I am surprised the supporter is not the bald eagle, the national bird of the US or a rose for America's national flower. . And no reference to the Markles, like Kate referenced her family. Sam ranted about this before the reveal and I'm surprised she and the rest of the Markles are silent now. Overall it's lovely.

I think an eagle would be too patriotic, given that we did declare war against the crown. I was hoping for a grizzly, but I think it might look kind of awkward in place of the songbird.

[Countessmeout]

What would she include to honor the Markles??? Kate's coat of arms includes her family because it isn't her coat of arms. It is the Middleton coat of arms, it was issued to her father and family. Her personal one, is the one of a daughter of the family. Meghan's is not a family coat of arms, it is her personal one. And as such it reflects her as a person.

I don't think the bald eagle or a bear were necessary. The bald eagle would be far too patriotic for a new British princess. And she has enough nods to California without including the bear.


I love the design. The blue and sun rays, the poppies all clear nods to California and her parents in a way. As an actress and now as a royal, communication is a key part of her world. The quils and the songbird are great. I love they included the flowers from Kensington for her new home.


As for the lion- as I understand its the Barbury lion. It is used to represent the English crown. The supporter on the other side, has the crown around its neck, as it doesn't represent the royal crown. In the Canadian coat of arms, the lion doesn't have a crown on the supported, though the unicorn has it around the neck.

[DuchessMia]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

What would she include to honor the Markles??? Kate's coat of arms includes her family because it isn't her coat of arms. It is the Middleton coat of arms, it was issued to her father and family. Her personal one, is the one of a daughter of the family. Meghan's is not a family coat of arms, it is her personal one. And as such it reflects her as a person.

I don't think the bald eagle or a bear were necessary. The bald eagle would be far too patriotic for a new British princess. And she has enough nods to California without including the bear.


I love the design. The blue and sun rays, the poppies all clear nods to California and her parents in a way. As an actress and now as a royal, communication is a key part of her world. The quils and the songbird are great. I love they included the flowers from Kensington for her new home.


As for the lion- as I understand its the Barbury lion. It is used to represent the English crown. The supporter on the other side, has the crown around its neck, as it doesn't represent the royal crown. In the Canadian coat of arms, the lion doesn't have a crown on the supported, though the unicorn has it around the neck.

Excellent post. I love it. It really is representative of Meghan.

[Ista]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

What would she include to honor the Markles??? Kate's coat of arms includes her family because it isn't her coat of arms. It is the Middleton coat of arms, it was issued to her father and family. Her personal one, is the one of a daughter of the family. Meghan's is not a family coat of arms, it is her personal one. And as such it reflects her as a person.

I don't think the bald eagle or a bear were necessary. The bald eagle would be far too patriotic for a new British princess. And she has enough nods to California without including the bear.


I love the design. The blue and sun rays, the poppies all clear nods to California and her parents in a way. As an actress and now as a royal, communication is a key part of her world. The quils and the songbird are great. I love they included the flowers from Kensington for her new home.


As for the lion- as I understand its the Barbury lion. It is used to represent the English crown. The supporter on the other side, has the crown around its neck, as it doesn't represent the royal crown. In the Canadian coat of arms, the lion doesn't have a crown on the supported, though the unicorn has it around the neck.

30 pieces of silver?

Agree with he rest of your post.

[Osipi]

I keep hearing that some are asking why not use the bald eagle or the grizzly bear. I think I've come up with the reason why. The bald eagle is representative of the United States and the grizzly bear is the official state animal for California. What was included in Meghan's coat of arms is nothing "official" or relating to the United States but rather reflective of her home environment hence keeping the coat of arms totally British.

Just thoughts.

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Osipi

I keep hearing that some are asking why not use the bald eagle or the grizzly bear. I think I've come up with the reason why. The bald eagle is representative of the United States and the grizzly bear is the official state animal for California. What was included in Meghan's coat of arms is nothing "official" or relating to the United States but rather reflective of her home environment hence keeping the coat of arms totally British.

Just thoughts.

Well except the golden poppy, which is the official state flower of California.

[elsegeblucas]

I believe that Meghan will be happy to be under her husbands coat of arms only. Their wedding was unusual as far as royalty goes as was their engagement. Both Meghan and Harry are quite philanthropic and this likeness cemented their relationship initially.A symbol that represents "giving"if any thing, might be within the artwork of an emblem of the coat of arms. I would think the universal plate, a round symbol representing that which is offered to humanity might well be part of the design if ever one is given.
It would also be quite in keeping with modernisation of the royals. The symbols must have meaning.

[Curryong]

But Meghan is not under her husband's Coat of Arms only. This is her personal Coat of Arms, approved by herself and the Queen, as was made clear by the Palace when it was released yesterday.

[ACO]

I am glad it was issued to her and her only.

[hel]

For anyone concerned that the bird looks a bit strangled around the eyes, it's important to remember that the picture that was released is one interpretation of the actual arms.

In heraldry, what's granted isn't a picture, it's the "blazon", which can then be drawn in any particular style you want. A blazon is the written description of the elements, in the very particular language of heraldry (a mix of French and English that has a very specific syntax).

So what was actually granted to Meghan is:

Azure, a Feather bendwise Argent quilled between two Bendlets Or all between two like Feathers Argent quilled Or;

They haven't published the blazon of the songbird yet (aka "the sinister supporter"). My best guess at it would be:

A Songbird Argent with wings addorsed and expanded/elevated speaking and unguled Or and gorged with a Coronet Or composed of crosses formy and fleurs-de-lys. (Note: there's something missing, but I can't figure out what would to use to describe the bird's foot holding on to the shield -- it may be that that's artistic license and not in the blazon)

So you could draw feathers that were fluffier and rounder, as long as they're white (Argent) with a gold shaft (quilled Or). And you could draw a songbird that had a less square beak, as long as the beak is yellow and open (speaking and unguled Or). All of those would be valid artistic interpretations of the blazon.

[King of the Jungle]

I like Meghans's Coat of Arms. The symbols are clear and attractive.
Could the crown around the neck also be a reference to Lord Hussey, supposedly her ancestor, being beheaded?