Meghan Markle: Citizenship and Religious Conversion

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

I have a question about this aspect of this situation.

Meghan has been out of the US for the past 18 months at least other than for the few days she was in New York. She also lived for the previous seven or so years prior to that in Canada for work.

Does she even qualify under this condition to pass on US citizenship? or is there something I am missing in all of this?

Yes. As long as she has fulfilled that time at any point in her life. It’s not the years immediately preceded the birth. And as she didn’t start filming in Canada until she was in her late 20s, I’m going to say it’s safe to assume she’s spent 5 years worthy of days, 2 after age 14, to meet the requirement.

The same language is used for naturalized citizen. When I went through that process, it said you must be physically present in the states for 5 years prior to become a citizen unless married to military personnel, then it’s 3. However, it doesn’t mean 5 years all at the same time right before. You just count the days to fulfill it as long as you didn’t violate the terms of permenant residency status(primarily you don’t continuously live in another country for more than a year at a time), which is not applicable in her case as she is already a US citizen.

If we are only talking about years immediately before the birth, no one would qualify unless they are in US while the baby is born in a foreign country. Which in the case of the mother, it’d be impossible. But the law doesn’t say that.

[O-H Anglophile]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

I have a question about this aspect of this situation.

Meghan has been out of the US for the past 18 months at least other than for the few days she was in New York. She also lived for the previous seven or so years prior to that in Canada for work.

Does she even qualify under this condition to pass on US citizenship? or is there something I am missing in all of this?

Meghan lived in the US all her life prior to working in Canada filming Suits. The rules say have lived in The U.S.for 5 years, at least 2 of those years after age 14. It does not say those years must be a certain time before the baby’s birth.

[ACO]

Meghan has lived majority of her life in the USA. Her citizenship isn't in question. The baby can be claimed as a US citizen if they report the birth to the US Embassy. Will they? I doubt it but I wouldn't be against it. This child will NOT perform royal duties. The Sussex children should have the option down the road especially as they will get farther down the line.

[BaiSoSo]

Originally Posted by Denville

who wants her as far as way as possible?

According to the Sunday Times and a couple of other British media outlets the 2nd 'future king' himself. BP didn't deny it either just saying that everything is speculative and no decisions have been made (not that it hadn't been discussed, not that William wasn't involved). Of course the media didn't realize how bad it would make him look so now they are trying to spin the story in five different directions.

[O-H Anglophile]

Originally Posted by BaiSoSo

According to the Sunday Times and a couple of other British media outlets the 2nd 'future king' himself. BP didn't deny it either just saying that everything is speculative and no decisions have been made (not that it hadn't been discussed, not that William wasn't involved). Of course the media didn't realize how bad it would make him look so now they are trying to spin the story in five different directions.

Neither William or KP has the power to send his brother anywhere. So BP is not going to issue a denial or anything else on that point. BP, and CH because of finances, have some power but the government and the RPOs might also have some say. And this line of discussion has nothing to do with Meghan’s citizenship.

[Fijiro]

Meghan better secure US Citizenship for their child(ren). They might need it during King William's reign.

[BaiSoSo]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

Neither William or KP has the power to send his brother anywhere. So BP is not going to issue a denial or anything else on that point. BP, and CH because of finances, have some power but the government and the RPOs might also have some say. And this line of discussion has nothing to do with Meghan’s citizenship.

I am fully aware of what the thread is about. I was responding to a question to me, my original message included that information to explain WHY I felt Meghan should keep her American citizenship.

As for William he doesn't have the outright power right now but as a future monarch (we are reminded of daily) he does have influence power.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Fijiro

Meghan better secure US Citizenship for their child(ren). They might need it during King William's reign.

Why would they need it? Are you suggesting that William would kick his niece/nephew out of the country? That seems completely unfounded.

(Btw he cannot do so if they only have UK citizenship )

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by ACO

Meghan has lived majority of her life in the USA. Her citizenship isn't in question. The baby can be claimed as a US citizen if they report the birth to the US Embassy. Will they? I doubt it but I wouldn't be against it. This child will NOT perform royal duties. The Sussex children should have the option down the road especially as they will get farther down the line.

Originally Posted by Fijiro

Meghan better secure US Citizenship for their child(ren). They might need it during King William's reign.

By law, the child automatically acquires the citizenship at birth, given that the statutory requirements are met. Reporting the child's birth to the US embassy is only necessary to claim documentation of the citizenship, which would be required if they desired to obtain the rights and benefits of citizenship (such as a US passport) for the child, according to the United States Department of State.

Birth of U.S. Citizens Abroad

Parents of a child born abroad to a U.S. citizen or citizens should apply for a CRBA [Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America] and/or a U.S. passport for the child as soon as possible. Failure to quickly document a child who meets the requirements for acquiring U.S. citizenship at birth may cause problems for the parents and the child when attempting to establish the child’s U.S. citizenship and eligibility for the rights and benefits of U.S. citizenship, including entry into the United States. By law, U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States.

Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship by a Child Born Abroad

Birth Abroad in Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen and an Alien

A person born abroad in wedlock to a U.S. citizen and an alien acquires U.S. citizenship at birth if the U.S. citizen parent has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions prior to the person’s birth for the period required by the statute in effect when the person was born (INA 301(g), formerly INA 301(a)(7).) For birth on or after November 14, 1986, the U.S. citizen parent must have been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for five years prior to the person’s birth, at least two of which were after the age of fourteen. [...]

Originally Posted by muriel

I think in the long term a dual UK - US citizenship would be inappropriate for a member of the BRF. If she is to represent the UK in even a supporting role, she should, IMO, be willing to commit to UK citizenship only. I would assume she would have agreed to this prior to the announcement of an engagement.

It appears no decision had been taken at the time of the engagement announcement.

Meghan Markle faces lengthy process to become a British citizen after marrying Prince Harry - Birmingham Live

Harry's communication's secretary Jason Knauf said Ms Markle, who has relocated to London from her home in Toronto, would be "compliant with immigration requirements at all times".

He added: "I can also say she intends to become a UK citizen and will go through the process of that, which some of you may know takes a number of years.

"She will retain her US citizenship through that process."

Mr Knauf would not comment on whether Ms Markle would retain her US citizenship and become a dual national in the future.

Originally Posted by jacqui24

Especially considering the BRF and government thought it’s ok for her child, who is actually in line to the throne, to be a dual citizen for at least 18 years of his or her life. I’d say that ship sailed long ago.

In the process of amending the laws of succession from 2011 to 2015, the British government even determined that it was appropriate for hundreds or thousands of foreign nationals without British citizenship to remain in line to the British throne, when they chose to retain all of the Protestant heirs of the body of the Princess Sophia of Hanover in the line of succession.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

By law, the child automatically acquires the citizenship at birth, given that the statutory requirements are met. Reporting the child's birth to the US embassy is only necessary to claim documentation of the citizenship, which would be required if they desired to obtain the rights and benefits of citizenship (such as a US passport) for the child, according to the United States Department of State.

Birth of U.S. Citizens Abroad

Parents of a child born abroad to a U.S. citizen or citizens should apply for a CRBA [Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America] and/or a U.S. passport for the child as soon as possible. Failure to quickly document a child who meets the requirements for acquiring U.S. citizenship at birth may cause problems for the parents and the child when attempting to establish the child’s U.S. citizenship and eligibility for the rights and benefits of U.S. citizenship, including entry into the United States. By law, U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States.

It seems the point that Alvinking has been trying to make is that citizenship is only 'established' once the parents apply for it. This is confirmed in your quote as parents are warned that not applying asap might cause problems later on if they (or the child) would try to claim their citizenship.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Somebody

It seems the point that Alvinking has been trying to make is that citizenship is only 'established' once the parents apply for it. This is confirmed in your quote as parents are warned that not applying asap might cause problems later on if they (or the child) would try to claim their citizenship.

Could you clarify what you mean by "established"? My understanding of the U.S. Department of State quotes is that according to American law, the citizenship itself is automatically established at birth, and only the documentation of it must be "claimed" by the parents.

[carlota]

Originally Posted by ACO

Meghan has lived majority of her life in the USA. Her citizenship isn't in question. The baby can be claimed as a US citizen if they report the birth to the US Embassy. Will they? I doubt it but I wouldn't be against it. This child will NOT perform royal duties. The Sussex children should have the option down the road especially as they will get farther down the line.

how are you so sure the child won't perform royal duties? i wouldn't assume so too quickly. charles' has 2 brothers and a sister, his 2 brothers decided their kids would have royal titles. out of their issue, beatrice and eugenie perform duties on behalf of the queen (even if they have their own careers in parallel), with zara/peter not being given titles or performing royal duties and edward's kids being too young yet to know if they will. however, in william and harry's generation there's only the two of them - H&M's kids may well have some degree of involvement in royal activities.

[alvinking]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Could you clarify what you mean by "established"? My understanding of the U.S. Department of State quotes is that according to American law, the citizenship itself is automatically established at birth, and only the documentation of it must be "claimed" by the parents.

It is indeed the documentation that establishes the recognition of citizenship in this case registering at the US embassy

Just like a birth certificate in the US is the document that establishes the right to citizenship. How can somebody truly born in the US but who doesn't have a birth certificate (documentation) as a proof of birth could establish his US citizenship (the only other option are sworn witnesses that can attest of the truthfulness of the event)

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Fijiro

Meghan better secure US Citizenship for their child(ren). They might need it during King William's reign.

Why ? It is not like King William is going to lock them in the Tower of London. We are not in the 14th century anymore .


It is really disturbing to see William turned into some kind of evil villain according to some posters here.

Originally Posted by alvinking

It is indeed the documentation that establishes the recognition of citizenship in this case registering at the US embassy

Just like a birth certificate in the US is the document that establishes the right to citizenship. How can somebody truly born in the US but who doesn't have a birth certificate (documentation) as a proof of birth could establish his US citizenship (the only other option are sworn witnesses that can attest of the truthfulness of the event)

Correct. Unless they register at a US embassy and/or apply for US identity documents for the baby, the baby's citizenship is not officially acknowledged by the United States as there will be no official record of it. Probably that is what is going to happen in Baby Sussex's case.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Correct. Unless they register at a US embassy and/or apply for US identity documents for the baby, the baby's citizenship is not officially acknowledged by the United States as there will be no official record of it. Probably that is what is going to happen in Baby Sussex's case.

Just because you don't register it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In fact, what's been posted above makes it very clear that the baby is dual citizen and it's only matter of paperwork. They can get in trouble for not doing so such as entering US with this child using British passport, whether the parents have applied for a US passport or not. Eventually this will have to be sorted out. Even if this child never enters US soil, he or she will eventually incur tax liabilities that will have to be addressed.

It does not say that a parent only has so long to claim citizenship or they forfeit. It just says it could create additional problems. And I imagine for normal people, there might also be the issue of documentation as time passes.

Originally Posted by alvinking

It is indeed the documentation that establishes the recognition of citizenship in this case registering at the US embassy

Just like a birth certificate in the US is the document that establishes the right to citizenship. How can somebody truly born in the US but who doesn't have a birth certificate (documentation) as a proof of birth could establish his US citizenship (the only other option are sworn witnesses that can attest of the truthfulness of the event)

That is not accurate. As mentioned above, it's not necessarily only by documentations, but also by eyewitness testimony. Claimed or not, this child is a US citizen by birth. And it can be claimed at any time. The child can claim by him or herself after he/she turns 18 as long as there is proof that he/she is eligible. It's only when the child is minor that parents would take care of the paperwork on their behalf. And the child would certainly have to renounce at 18 if he/she does not want it. That cannot be renounced by the parents while the child is a minor.

There is a difference between citizenship and proof of citizenship. Citizenship is there regardless if they applied for the proof of it or not. In fact, purposely ignoring it can lead to legal problems if certain things happen.

[alvinking]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

That is not accurate. As mentioned above, it's not necessarily only by documentations, but also by eyewitness testimony. Claimed or not, this child is a US citizen by birth. And it can be claimed at any time. The child can claim by him or herself after he/she turns 18 as long as there is proof that he/she is eligible. It's only when the child is minor that parents would take care of the paperwork on their behalf. And the child would certainly have to renounce at 18 if he/she does not want it. That cannot be renounced by the parents while the child is a minor.

There is a difference between citizenship and proof of citizenship. Citizenship is there regardless if they applied for the proof of it or not. In fact, purposely ignoring it can lead to legal problems if certain things happen.

Think what you want to think. Like i said earlier, I am French and my spouse is an US citizen. I was in the same situation for my son and we went through the process. I certainly know what I am talking about since i lived it. Citizenship is not a virtual concept, it is backed up by proof

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by alvinking

Think what you want to think. Like i said earlier, I am French and my spouse is an US citizen. I was in the same situation for my son and we went through the process. I certainly know what I am talking about since i lived it

You went through one way of obtaining documentation related to citizenship. It's not the only way, and it certainly isn't the citizenship that was established. The law is spelled out very clearly on this.

[JuliannaVictoria]

From personal experience, I don't think that Meghan should give up her U.S. citizenship. She can still work for the Crown and fulfilled her duties without putting all of her "eggs in one basket".

As for BabySussex, the child is automatically a U.S. citizen at birth whether the birth is registered or not. If the child wants to claim U.S. citizenship later in life, they would need their non U.S. birth certificate along with their U.S. parent's documents (i.e. Harry and Meghan's marriage licence and certificate Apostiled, Meghan's American birth certificate, and documentation proving that Meghan met the requirement of residency *5 years and 2 years after 14).

Again, the American system is a little more flexible that other places.

[loonytick]

If you’re a regular person born with dual citizenship and you choose not to claim that citizenship or obtai full documentation in one of the countries, you can probably get by your whole life without it ever being an issue. Some people do opt to do that. My mom, for instance, is technically a citizen of both the US and the South American nation where she grew up, but she’s spent her entire adulthood in the US and has no documentation from her birth nation beyond a birth certificate. But she’s very aware that if for any reason she were to end up in a police station in that country and they questioned the birthplace listed on her US passport there could be negative ramifications for her not traveling under that country’s passport, not paying taxes, never participating in an election (voting is mandatory there), etc. She’s not bothered because the risk is incredibly low. She’s gone back to visit only three times in the last 60 years, she speaks English, has no accent, presents as thoroughly American, etc. The chance of anyone noticing that she might be a dual is very low that she doesn’t seem it worth the red tape of either claiming that citizenship or revoking it.

But Baby Sussex is in a very different position. Literally the entire world knows that this kid is the child of a US citizen. Simply not registering the baby with the consulate and hoping no one notices isn’t an option. There may be some options available that aren’t as obvious at first glance, but there’s also a very good chance that the family will cross every t and dot every i to maintain his or her dual citizenship in good standing.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by JuliannaVictoria

From personal experience, I don't think that Meghan should give up her U.S. citizenship. She can still work for the Crown and fulfilled her duties without putting all of her "eggs in one basket".

As for BabySussex, the child is automatically a U.S. citizen at birth whether the birth is registered or not. If the child wants to claim U.S. citizenship later in life, they would need their non U.S. birth certificate along with their U.S. parent's documents (i.e. Harry and Meghan's marriage licence and certificate Apostiled, Meghan's American birth certificate, and documentation proving that Meghan met the requirement of residency *5 years and 2 years after 14).

Again, the American system is a little more flexible that other places.

Since the US citizenship is through the mother, there isn't even a need for their marriage license and certificate. That's only necessary if it's through the father as the child would have either be legitimate (the parents married) or established through DNA test.