Meghan Markle: Citizenship and Religious Conversion

[Lady Nimue]

I think special conditions will apply for Meghan as a diplomatic courtesy. Makes sense to me. Between governments.

[jacqui24]

Something like this wouldn't likely be granted unless the UK government makes the request. Wouldn't this be seen as special treatment? At that point, just expedite the citizenship as they wouldn't have to ask a foreign government for a favor and would likely have to give something in return.

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

Something like this wouldn't likely be granted unless the UK government makes the request. Wouldn't this be seen as special treatment? At that point, just expedite the citizenship as they wouldn't have to ask a foreign government for a favor and would likely have to give something in return.

Of course it's special treatment. Why not? I recognize that there has been a running argument that Meghan should not have 'special treatment' (because the 'regular folk' will get angry about that) but I don't think the argument is valid. Royals have special treatment all the time and some of that special treatment is because they are high visibility and subject to considerable risk. Those who think Meghan needs to 'get in the queue like the rest of us' are exhibiting some hostility (imo) and failing to consider the overall scenario. If Meghan is joining the BRF (part of the UK governmental structure in effect) then she needs to be a UK citizen, full stop. She cannot have ties to a foreign state that could compromise her fully participating in her new affiliation.

If people want the BRF to have no perks, then do away with the BRF. That's the solution. But to expect these people to do without special protection ('perks') is unreasonable imo.

[Iluvbertie]

If Meghan genuinely wants UK citizenship and to be seen as following the normal procedures she will win a lot more fans and respect than if she uses who soon to be new position for her advantage.

If she is to be fast-tracked for citizenship it should also be on the clear understanding that she renounces her US citizenship - which won't go down that well in the US.

She is actually in a lose-lose position if she is fast-tracked but win-win if she follows the normal procedures.

The most important thing is that if she does take the longer route that she ensure that she and Harry's finances are totally transparent - along with Charles' and the Queen's as anything they give her, or have already given her, could be questioned by the IRS I believe.

[Osipi]

Right now, for all of 2017 and for part of 2018 up until her wedding date, the IRS is only interested in her personal income. She's filing with the IRS as a single person for 2017 so nothing related to the BRF comes into play and her advisors will direct her to what she needs to do as far as gifts and whatnot.

She could declare that she's living rent free in Nottingham Cottage (which she most likely is as she's living with Harry). She has not garnered any income in Britain that I know of but her income from Suits and any other personal investments that earned capital are to be claimed.

I'm sure Meghan has the benefit of having top notch financial advisors and international tax experts working on this for her. I'm by no means even close to being literate on taxes anywhere so this is just an uneducated guess for me.

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

If Meghan genuinely wants UK citizenship and to be seen as following the normal procedures she will win a lot more fans and respect than if she uses who soon to be new position for her advantage.

Nothing to do with what Meghan decides or wants imo. And to her advantage? This has to do with the BRF and the UK government, etc. Why put this on Meghan? It's not her call. She's going to be working for the UK within the BRF. That seems to be the pertinent aspect.

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

If she is to be fast-tracked for citizenship it should also be on the clear understanding that she renounces her US citizenship - which won't go down that well in the US.

Is that something you have decided she needs to do, Iluvbertie? Wondering where this 'understanding' arises.

She should be fast tracked for UK citizenship because she is marrying into the BRF and will be working for the UK. Makes sense to me.

As well where do you get the idea that what Meghan does with her US citizenship matters to anyone in the US? This is someone marrying into the BRF. She will do what she does. No one will care. Like they didn't care when Lisa Halliby married the Jordanian king, or Grace Kelly married Prince Rainier. No American will care. Why would they?

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

She is actually in a lose-lose position if she is fast-tracked but win-win if she follows the normal procedures.

I disagree. And it's not her, as in she making the decision. Why do you put it on her? I would think this is a larger issue than just what Meghan wants/decides. Sounds strange to have it phrased as though she is making these decisions. She may certainly have input but I think the issue is larger than just her personal wishes, and she would know that.

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

The most important thing is that if she does take the longer route that she ensure that she and Harry's finances are totally transparent - along with Charles' and the Queen's as anything they give her, or have already given her, could be questioned by the IRS I believe.

That may be a sticking point. However, though it has been floated as an issue, it may not actually be an issue. But again, you are putting this on Meghan, as though she is the one who carries the entire responsibility: that 'she ensures that she and Harry's finances are totally transparent - along with Charles' and the Queen's...' What? How is any of this Meghan's responsibility? She is a cog in a very complicated system that I assume has ways of monitoring this than Meghan 'making sure' of anything.

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by Osipi

I'm sure Meghan has the benefit of having top notch financial advisors and international tax experts working on this for her. I'm by no means even close to being literate on taxes anywhere so this is just an uneducated guess for me.

I do not see this as Meghan's responsibility. Buckingham Palace (can we say) as well as the PM and the appropriate government agency are likely handling all this. For sure Meghan has input and there is likely considerable on-going discussions, but this is not an area where Meghan can solely call the shots. She is not a solitary actor in this, she does not ultimately decide. JMO.

P.S. I am particularly flashing on the suggestion that it is Meghan who will decide this and either please UK citizens or not. I don't think this is in the scope of Meghan's powers and to suggest such sets her up to be someone who (as stated) takes advantage of her position (a no-no). I think there is an over-reaching taking place regarding Meghan's self governance in all this. JMO.

[Osipi]

My statement was for the tax period of 2017 and part of 2018 before her marriage. After she marries, then she will be under the Firm's umbrella as a member of the BRF. Until she marries, she still files taxes as a single, US citizen and the BRF is not pertinent to her finances unless she earned income from them. At least that's what makes sense to me. But then again, what do I know?

[PetticoatLane]

These tax issues suggest to me that it makes overwhelming sense for Meghan to renounce her US citizenship as thousands of people do every year when she becomes a UK citizen.

Why bother with all this hassle, as well as the expense not only in the tax she'll have to pay but in the no doubt very expensive lawyers and accountants she'll need to retain to try and deal with it? She'll likely end up with a diplomatic UK passport (I assume) which will surely allow her to visit the US as regularly as she wants to.

One thing I'm sure she won't do is accept any fast track UK citizenship even if it were offered to her, and I very much doubt it would be. Immigration is an enormously touchy subject in the UK, one need only see recent news headlines in the UK over the last few days. Giving an American princess special treatment in this regard would be a PR disaster of gargantuan proportions for the BRF and the government of the day. This may or may not be fair to Meghan personally but it is the reality here in the UK.

[Osipi]

I don't think anyone in the US will really care if she gives up her US citizenship at all and to be honest, I expect her to. Her public life from the wedding day forward will be working for and representing the British Royal Family and that's where her total loyalty should lie. She will always be American born, bred and buttered but citizenship is about where a person lives, works and raises a family and for Meghan, that's going to be the UK.

Most likely she never considered becoming a Canadian citizen as she was working and living temporarily in Toronto for the duration of her time with Suits. She well could have landed another role filming totally in Atlanta or NY or Alaska after her stint at Suits was over so she may have needed her US citizenship in the future. Now she knows she doesn't.

[PetticoatLane]

She can still be as American as she is now even without the citizenship. She can still have a Thanksgiving dinner, watch US sports, have a BBQ on the 4th of July, spend time with her American friends and relatives without the citizenship. Many people are citizens of countries they feel little or no attachment to.

Be in no doubt, rightly or wrongly, maintaining dual citizenship with be a thorny issue for a chunk of the public and the press. It will be interpreted as her not being fully committed to this country which is a problem if you're a member of the Royal Family and a recipient of taxpayer money.

Unfortunately the US tax system makes being an American who lives overseas prohibitively expensive for most expats which is a shame.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Osipi

My statement was for the tax period of 2017 and part of 2018 before her marriage. After she marries, then she will be under the Firm's umbrella as a member of the BRF. Until she marries, she still files taxes as a single, US citizen and the BRF is not pertinent to her finances unless she earned income from them. At least that's what makes sense to me. But then again, what do I know?

It only applies to 2017. You are treated as a married person for the entire year as long as you are married by the last day of the year. So she’ll be treated as married for the entirety of 2018.

And I agree with everyone that said Americans wouldn’t care much if she renounced. She will always be our American princess, but we fully understand that she’s marrying into the British Royal Family. It’s not as if the writing isn’t on the wall for that. I think things would become very difficult for her in UK if she doesn’t renounce once she has UK citizenship. The interesting thing here remains to be any potential children they might have, which are likely to be before she gets UK citizenship and renounces US citizenship. Just like Crown Princess Mary renounced her Australia citizenship, but my understanding is that Aussies have a lot of goodwill towards this Australian born and raised princess.

[Osipi]

Thanks jacqui for the clarification on 2018. Makes sense. Its been so long since I've gone from single status to married status that these tidbits of information have gone the way of the dinosaur.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by PetticoatLane

These tax issues suggest to me that it makes overwhelming sense for Meghan to renounce her US citizenship as thousands of people do every year when she becomes a UK citizen.

Why bother with all this hassle, as well as the expense not only in the tax she'll have to pay but in the no doubt very expensive lawyers and accountants she'll need to retain to try and deal with it? She'll likely end up with a diplomatic UK passport (I assume) which will surely allow her to visit the US as regularly as she wants to.

One thing I'm sure she won't do is accept any fast track UK citizenship even if it were offered to her, and I very much doubt it would be. Immigration is an enormously touchy subject in the UK, one need only see recent news headlines in the UK over the last few days. Giving an American princess special treatment in this regard would be a PR disaster of gargantuan proportions for the BRF and the government of the day. This may or may not be fair to Meghan personally but it is the reality here in the UK.

She will be bothering with all the hassle in the next 5 years if she is not being fast-tracked... And any children will have issues at least until they are 18.

So, I don't see how things can be arranged in an effective way -i.e., without compromising the BRF's finances-, without giving her a special treatment one way or another.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Somebody

She will be bothering with all the hassle in the next 5 years if she is not being fast-tracked... And any children will have issues at least until they are 18.

So, I don't see how things can be arranged in an effective way -i.e., without compromising the BRF's finances-, without giving her a special treatment one way or another.

Well, if there are children born into this marriage in the next five years and a trust fund is set up for them. They can always do so in US to avoid the pain of filing two tax returns and then FBAR disclosure. But of course, I imagine this will cause a bit of an upset in UK if it ever came out. Although, I’d expect reasonable people to understand give the precarious situation they are in.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

Well, if there are children born into this marriage in the next five years and a trust fund is set up for them. They can always do so in US to avoid the pain of filing two tax returns and then FBAR disclosure. But of course, I imagine this will cause a bit of an upset in UK if it ever came out. Although, I’d expect reasonable people to understand give the precarious situation they are in.

However, if all these measures need to be taken while they can be easily avoided by fast-tracking her citizenship, why not go the most logical route - as has been done in other royal families as it is absurd to have a foreigner represent your country...

But I believe that's the solution you are favoring as well.

[tihkon2]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

If she is to be fast-tracked for citizenship it should also be on the clear understanding that she renounces her US citizenship - which won't go down that well in the US.

.

I think most people that even know who she is here in the USA will not care at all if she keeps or doesn't keep her US citizenship. It's really only discussed here on the Royal Forums.

[Pranter]

Folks do it often enough..why would anyone care about it anyway? It certainly makes me no difference ...I can understand why she would considering her situation.


LaRae

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

If Meghan genuinely wants UK citizenship and to be seen as following the normal procedures she will win a lot more fans and respect than if she uses who soon to be new position for her advantage.

If she is to be fast-tracked for citizenship it should also be on the clear understanding that she renounces her US citizenship - which won't go down that well in the US.

She is actually in a lose-lose position if she is fast-tracked but win-win if she follows the normal procedures.

The most important thing is that if she does take the longer route that she ensure that she and Harry's finances are totally transparent - along with Charles' and the Queen's as anything they give her, or have already given her, could be questioned by the IRS I believe.

Maxima and Mary Donaldson have been both fast-tracked respectively for Dutch and Danish citizenship. It is only in the UK that fast-tracking Meghan for British ciitizenship has become a controversial issue.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Somebody

However, if all these measures need to be taken while they can be easily avoided by fast-tracking her citizenship, why not go the most logical route - as has been done in other royal families as it is absurd to have a foreigner represent your country...

But I believe that's the solution you are favoring as well.

It is. I'm just suggesting alternatives as things stand now. I do think it's dumb to have someone conduct foreign tours at the request of the British Foreign Office on behalf of HMQ when they are not British, but hey that's just me. And let's be real, of course they aren't the same as everybody else. Would any other foreigner to asked to represent the Queen on foreign tours?