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  #821  
Old 03-11-2018, 07:17 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Curbside View Post
A lot of people are believers and aren't terribly picky about the kind of church they join. Religion is manmade, and can have little to do with spirituality.
I think that depends on what faith one grew up in. My (limited) understanding is that, for those who follow more radical forms of Protestantism (which is the case, I believe, of most American Protestants), denominations are not that important, and they actually move from one church/denomination to another quite frequently. I suppose that has to do with specific Protestant beliefs on a direct relationship between God and a believer without the mediation of a priest or a church, on a memorialist view of sacraments purely as "ordinances", and on the lack of a central church authority and doctrine, as exemplified by congregationalist governance.

That may not be the case, however, in some of the historical Protestant churches in Europe, which still have official status in their respective countries like the CoE or the high Lutheran churches in the Scandinavian countries for example. And it is most certainly not the case when it comes to converting from Roman Catholicism to Protestantism, which is a big deal. Moving from an Eastern Orthodox church to the Roman Catholic church, as Queen Sofia of Spain did, is not such a big deal in comparison because, although the Eastern Orthodox churches and the Roman Catholic church are not in full communion, the Roman Catholic Church recognizes the validity of Eastern Orthodox ordination (and, accordingly, the administration of sacraments by Eastern Orthodox priests).
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  #822  
Old 03-11-2018, 09:12 AM
Majesty
 
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Almost everything Parliament requires of the monarch is based on religion. There’s still an Established Church in England and the Sovereign is sworn to protect it.


In front of parliament the new sovereign states: I [monarch's name] do solemnly and sincerely in the presence of God profess, testify and declare that I am a faithful Protestant, and that I will, according to the true intent of the enactments which secure the Protestant succession to the Throne of my Realm, uphold and maintain the said enactments to the best of my powers according to law

Parliament then requires the coronation oath. The sovereign promises to

(1)to govern the peoples of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the dominions etc belonging or pertaining to them according to their respective laws and customs;

(2) to cause law and justice in mercy to be executed in all judgments, to the monarch's power;

(3) to maintain the laws of god, the true profession of the Gospel, and the protestant reformed religion established by law, to the utmost of the Sovereign's power;

(4) to maintain and preserve inviolable the settlement of the Church of England, and its doctrine, worship, discipline and government as by law established in England; and

(5) to preserve unto the bishops and clergy of England, and to the Churches there committed to their charge, all such rights and privileges as by law do or shall appertain to them or any of them

The Queens family was brought from Germany for the expressed reason to uphold the Protestant reformed religion.

So to bring this all back to Meghan, she’s joining an institution that even in 2018, is intertwined with man made religion.

No one goes to church any more but Parliament makes sure it’s sovereign swears to uphold religion.
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  #823  
Old 03-11-2018, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Yes, it is. The Episcopalian church is the American branch of the Anglican Community. The Church of England is the English (and founding) branch of that same Anglican Community.

And the Anglicans are 'the least protestant' (i.e., closest to the Roman Catholic church) compared to other protestant denominations - as, for example, evidenced by their theology on Holy Communion/The Lord's Table/The Eucharist and the appointment of bisshops (most protestant churches are less hierarchical but instead use a Presbyterian or a Congregational model of governance).
Thank you so much for taking the time to inform me more on this process and connection. I was doing a little bit of research into Russian Orthodoxy and Catholicism and I got the impression that they had a lot in common and converting to one due to marriage wouldn't be that much of a culture shock. Again as an American who just considers herself Protestant I would not mind going to any church whether it be Presbyterian Episcopalian, Orthodox, or Catholic. If by any chance Meghan was raised Episcopalian then her baptism into Anglican isn't such a big deal.

BTW I didn't know COE was the most Catholic of the Protestant denominations; thanx for the info.
  #824  
Old 03-11-2018, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
I do remember that episode ha ha. Yep agree. The one thing we will never know is would she have done this if she wasn’t marrying Harry I doubt it
Others have already commented enlighteningly on your above post. I would just add that Meghan and Harry are in fact marrying. That's the reality. I do not see the point of speculating about anything that wouldn't have happened if they weren't marrying or if they'd never met. For one thing, we wouldn't be discussing anything to do with Meghan and Harry, if somehow they'd never met.
  #825  
Old 03-11-2018, 08:47 PM
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pr

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
... Imo and it’s only my opinion, Meghan would have converted to any religion if it meant becoming Princess Harry...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I think most feel that way about people marrying into royalty.
Interesting observation @ACO, but it could be just an assumption on your part unless there are reliable statistical surveys to back it up. Then again, going by popular literature and current tabloid imaginings there seems to exist all kinds of assumptions, myths and fantasies about royalty, down through the ages.

I usually try to check out veriable quotes and video interviews as much as possible. I am reminded of the Meghan and Harry engagement interview in which Harry remarked about the press thinking they know more about him than they actually do. And during that interview the public also learned interesting things about H&M's courtship that we could not possibly otherwise have known had they not decided to let us know. From their own comments and interaction, it seems clear that they are deeply in love and devoted not only to each other but also to making a difference through charitable service. That they apparently share a deep spiritual faith is hardly surprising.

In addition, there have been a number of comments quoted in the press by the Archbishop of Canterbury, (the most Rev Justin Welby) who will preside at H&M's wedding. Here's a video interview so we can hear Welby's words directly:
Harry and Meghan 'serious' about faith - Archbishop - BBC News

"I am very very sure after conversations with Prince Harry and Meghan Markle that they have not chosen a church wedding just as a tick-box exercise... they both have a profound sense of commitment and seriousness about their faith and about their lives together which is quite inspirational..."

I choose to not disbelieve the Archbishop.
  #826  
Old 03-11-2018, 09:11 PM
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I don’t disbelieve him but I mean what is he going say.

He can’t come out and say “well after talking with Meghan I think this whole thing is a sham and she’s getting baptised just for the optics”.
  #827  
Old 03-11-2018, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
I don’t disbelieve him but I mean what is he going say.

He can’t come out and say “well after talking with Meghan I think this whole thing is a sham and she’s getting baptised just for the optics”.
I think they would find a way to have postponed the baptism and confirmation if he had doubts and could not in good conscience baptize and confirm Meghan.
  #828  
Old 03-11-2018, 09:21 PM
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The Archbishop could of course chosen the refrain from offering his opinion other than the basic factual information. This reads like a glowing endorsement. It is a shame that his words are doubted given his stature just because he says something positive regarding Harry and Meghan.
  #829  
Old 03-11-2018, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
I don’t disbelieve him but I mean what is he going say.

He can’t come out and say “well after talking with Meghan I think this whole thing is a sham and she’s getting baptised just for the optics”.
Hmmm, did you actually watch the video and listen? You seem to be taking a very negative stance on something that seems quite straightforward.

Even the way you characterize what you feel the Archbishop 'can't come out and say,' is so unnecessarily negative. I'm sure the Archbishop would not be making the effort to say anything that he doesn't believe to be true.
  #830  
Old 03-11-2018, 09:39 PM
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Time to move on.
  #831  
Old 03-14-2018, 01:28 PM
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I remember people gave a hard time to Autumn as well because she converted to CofE from catholic. I will never forget her words: “After all, it is the same religion.” I thought that was quite refreshing in this world of division and skepticism.
  #832  
Old 03-14-2018, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Thank you so much for taking the time to inform me more on this process and connection. I was doing a little bit of research into Russian Orthodoxy and Catholicism and I got the impression that they had a lot in common and converting to one due to marriage wouldn't be that much of a culture shock. Again as an American who just considers herself Protestant I would not mind going to any church whether it be Presbyterian Episcopalian, Orthodox, or Catholic. If by any chance Meghan was raised Episcopalian then her baptism into Anglican isn't such a big deal.

BTW I didn't know COE was the most Catholic of the Protestant denominations; thanx for the info.
It is the Anglican church that is closest to the roman catholic church (orthodox churches are even closer to the roman catholic one but not protestant), not necessarily the CoE. There are various 'streams' within the Anglican church and those identifying as 'high church' easily move from Anglican to Roman Catholic as their beliefs and liturgy are very closely related.
  #833  
Old 03-14-2018, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatianacressida View Post
I remember people gave a hard time to Autumn as well because she converted to CofE from catholic. I will never forget her words: “After all, it is the same religion.” I thought that was quite refreshing in this world of division and skepticism.
There was no reason for Autumn to convert.. Peter is nowwhere near the throne and there are other RC's in the RF....
  #834  
Old 03-14-2018, 04:28 PM
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What remains is that what religion and doctrines a person chooses to follow is a personal decision. At the time of a marriage, a couple may decide that to present an unified front while raising a family, its easiest done with the family belonging to one church.
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  #835  
Old 03-14-2018, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatianacressida View Post
I remember people gave a hard time to Autumn as well because she converted to CofE from catholic. I will never forget her words: “After all, it is the same religion.” I thought that was quite refreshing in this world of division and skepticism.
I didn’t know she converted from catholism. Interesting. Imo Christ is a everywhere and it is only the prejudiced and deeply unpleasant type of ‘christian’ that would have an issue with welcoming a newcomer into a church of Christ.

Can’t remember the last time I set foot In a church, I am not religious but I have seen kinder unbelievers.
  #836  
Old 03-14-2018, 05:16 PM
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Up until the reign of George V, not only did the sovereign promise to be a faithful Protestant but also an anti-Catholic.

The anti-Catholic bit was done away with. Meghan probably thinks it’s easier being Anglican all things concerned.
  #837  
Old 03-14-2018, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Up until the reign of George V, not only did the sovereign promise to be a faithful Protestant but also an anti-Catholic.

The anti-Catholic bit was done away with. Meghan probably thinks it’s easier being Anglican all things concerned.
Just a bit of clarification needed here. They didn't profess to be anti-catholic but rather anti-Roman Catholic. There's a difference. The word "catholic" means universal and the word is still used in Protestant denominations in the Apostles' Creed today.
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  #838  
Old 03-14-2018, 05:30 PM
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Yup you’re right. Thanks for the correction.
  #839  
Old 03-16-2018, 08:07 AM
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Brief video with comments from Archbishop of Canterbury on Meghan's baptism and prepping for the royal wedding.

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/9...018452993?s=21
  #840  
Old 03-16-2018, 08:09 AM
ACO ACO is online now
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Nice words. Say it was a "special, beautiful, sincere privilege"

So all confirmed.
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