Meghan Markle: Citizenship and Religious Conversion

[American Observer7]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

In the UK, after marriage, yes. That will be what she uses. She can even be called that all around the world--but not on her US passport and US legal documents.

It has nothing to do whatsoever with her US passport or her legal documents. She will still have that passport and documents after she's married and the title of HRH.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by American Observer7

It has nothing to do whatsoever with her US passport or her legal documents. She will still have that passport and documents after she's married and the title of HRH.

O-H-Anglophile was making a point that her HRH style won't be officially recognized in the US and, therefore, cannot be included in a US passport or any other US documents.

Titles on the other hand, including peerages, are routinely used in British passports.

[American Observer7]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

O-H-Anglophile was making a point that her HRH style won't be officially recognized in the US and, therefore, cannot be included in a US passport or any other US documents.

Titles on the other hand, including peerages, are routinely used in British passports.

Oh! I understand now.... True. Thank you.

[CyrilVladisla]

Does the Anglican Church of England stipulate that Meghan must have a confirmation sponsor when she is confirmed?

[MARG]

Well since she is being both baptised and confirmed I suspect she will not be on her own. Perhaps they will do it in chapel with her soon too be family during a Sunday service.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

Does the Anglican Church of England stipulate that Meghan must have a confirmation sponsor when she is confirmed?

What is a 'confirmation sponsor'?

I have never heard of such a thing. I was confirmed in the Church of England in 1972 and have been a regular attendee at CoE services ever since. I teach at a CoE school and we regularly have a number of students confirmed (about 5 - 6 every two to three years these days - was 50 or so in 1991 but now down to 5 - 6 every couple of years as fewer and fewer young people want to follow Christian teachings where I live).

[Osipi]

Perhaps its being confused with the Roman Catholic confirmation. When I was confirmed, we not only selected someone to be a sort of spiritual mentor as a sponsor (usually an aunt or uncle) but we also chose confirmation names usually a saint we'd like to emulate.

This, for me, was back in the 60s so things very well could have drastically changed by now.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Osipi

Perhaps its being confused with the Roman Catholic confirmation. When I was confirmed, we not only selected someone to be a sort of spiritual mentor as a sponsor (usually and aunt or uncle) but we also chose confirmation names usually a saint we'd like to emulate.

This, for me, was back in the 60s so things very well could have drastically changed by now.

I was confirmed in the 70s as RC and I don't remember anyne being a sponsor. its normal to take another name at confirmation, to add to one's baptismal names but I've never heard of a sponsor. That is at Baptism.. a sponsor or godparent is there to make promises on behalf of the child and to be (ideally) a mentor...

[Osipi]

Maybe its different in the parish I was in and it was also in the US. I remember asking my Aunt Irene to be my sponsor and she stood with me as I got slapped in the face by the presiding Cardinal.

We're getting off track on how all this pertains to Meghan. I imagine that when she is confirmed, it will be a small and private thing and not something that is announced to the public.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Osipi

MWe're getting off track on how all this pertains to Meghan. I imagine that when she is confirmed, it will be a small and private thing and not something that is announced to the public.

well its not likely to be a BIG public thing but I see no reason why it should not be announced. they have made it public that she's receiving instruction in the Anglican faith and that she's going to be received intot it.. so it is harldy a private matter.

[O-H Anglophile]

I was confirmed (RC) and my aunt was my sponsor. I was my niece's sponsor a little over 10 years ago. I don't know how it is in Anglican UK churches, so I don't know if Meghan will need a sponsor-if she does there are many to choose from. It may just be in the Catholic Church.

I know Kate was confirmed before she and William married, but I don't think they announced when it occurred. I don't see why Meghan's would be announced. We were told it would happen, I see no reason to doubt that.

[dgtns]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

What is a 'confirmation sponsor'?

I have never heard of such a thing. I was confirmed in the Church of England in 1972 and have been a regular attendee at CoE services ever since. I teach at a CoE school and we regularly have a number of students confirmed (about 5 - 6 every two to three years these days - was 50 or so in 1991 but now down to 5 - 6 every couple of years as fewer and fewer young people want to follow Christian teachings where I live).

A Confirmation Sponsor is an adult member of the Roman Catholic Church who stands behind.....i.e. "sponsors" the candidate for confirmation. They "vouch" that the candidate is ready to accept the responsibilities of an adult Catholic.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

I wI know Kate was confirmed before she and William married, but I don't think they announced when it occurred. I don't see why Meghan's would be announced. We were told it would happen, I see no reason to doubt that.

I believe that it was announced about kate, either that she was preparing for confirmation or that she'd been confirmed. Why shouldn't it? Its nothing that has to be kept secret.

[KittyAtlanta]

Originally Posted by American Observer7

It will take at least 5 years for Meghan to obtain UK citizenship. Her parents are American! I am sure they would object to her giving up her US citizenship, a place where she was born and raised! It is not right to expect that of her! Meghan says she's proud of who she is and where she comes from, well, the US is a part of that.

What's next? Her Mom and Daddy will now move to the UK, and stop celebrating American holidays etc. Part of what makes Meghan unique is that she is American Born.

Emily Andrews posted on Twitter, "Meghan will become dual citizen of the US and the UK."

And that is the way it should be.

As a dual citizen, all Megan will have to do is enter the U.S. on her American Passport and enter UK with her British Passport. I was a dual citizen and that's what I had to do.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Osipi

I agree. Upon marriage, the wife takes on the feminine form of the titles and styles of her husband. It has nothing to do with citizenship but with marriage.

Are you sure? I'd say there is a difference in what you use vs what you take/are. If for example a Dutch woman marries a British man, according to Dutch laws she would not change her surname if British law would prevail, she would change her surname, so, given that her nationality is Dutch, I would assume she will officially keep her family name while she might use her husband's surname in social life, if she would file for anything official it would be her maiden name she has to use.

So, applying this to Meghan, given that Meghan is not a British citizen she might be called HRH the duchess of X but legally she remains Rachel Meghan Markle (until she becomes a British citizen?).

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Are you sure? I'd say there is a difference in what you use vs what you take/are. If for example a Dutch woman marries a British man, according to Dutch laws she would not change her surname if British law would prevail, she would change her surname, so, given that her nationality is Dutch, I would assume she will officially keep her family name while she might use her husband's surname in social life, if she would file for anything official it would be her maiden name she has to use.

So, applying this to Meghan, given that Meghan is not a British citizen she might be called HRH the duchess of X but legally she remains Rachel Meghan Markle (until she becomes a British citizen?).

Harry isn't the Duke of Whatever under US law either, but he is addressed as such in social setting even in US. Her paperwork in Britain would reflect as British law recognizes titles.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

Harry isn't the Duke of Whatever under US law either, but he is addressed as such in social setting even in US. Her paperwork in Britain would reflect as British law recognizes titles.

No, but you are comparing apples and oranges: he is British (so his name and title depend on British law) and Meghan is not (she is American, so her name and title depend on American law). Harry doesn't have US paperwork; and Meghan doesn't have UK paperwork, so I still don't understand how she can BE the duchess; as British law is irrelevant for her as a non-British citizen. While Harry clearly can BE the duke of X (as he currently IS HRH prince Henry of Wales) if his grandmother makes him one.

What British paperwork would she have as a non-British citizen? The only thing I can think of is when her name is to be put on a marriage certificate (she better makes sure that it reflects her American papers) and a birth certificate (however, if she legally still is Rachel Meghan Markle it shouldn't read 'HRH Rachel Meghan Duchess of X'; as the only way she can be so is if she is married to the duke of X and if she is a British citizen; because she cannot change her name according to British law as long as she (only) is an American citizen). Or am I missing something?

Of course both can be called anything in social settings (either in the US or in the UK or elsewhere), I only question whether Meghan can formally BE a duchess as long as she isn't a British citizen.

[moby]

Consular officers would say, nope, she retains the name she has in her birth certificate in whatever situation until she marries in foreign country X that requires or allows her to change her last name/titles to that of her husband's. After marriage, she may use her husband's surname or titles and her marriage certificate, executed in X country, will be basis of that name change. This is regardless of her changing nationalities.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by dgtns

A Confirmation Sponsor is an adult member of the Roman Catholic Church who stands behind.....i.e. "sponsors" the candidate for confirmation. They "vouch" that the candidate is ready to accept the responsibilities of an adult Catholic.

The CoE does not have such a person. They ask the confirmees directly if they are prepared to make that step and follow on from there. No need for anyone else to make that comment as they are being asked to confirm the vows made for them at baptism and they need to be old enough to understand that concept and be able to make that commitment for themselves.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

The CoE does not have such a person. They ask the confirmees directly if they are prepared to make that step and follow on from there. No need for anyone else to make that comment as they are being asked to confirm the vows made for them at baptism and they need to be old enough to understand that concept and be able to make that commitment for themselves.

In the Catholic liturgy, the confirmee is also directly asked to confirm the baptism vows that were made for him/her as an infant. The role of the sponsor is actually to present the candidate to the bishop and to give the bishop the candidate's name before the anoiting with the Chrism. The sponsor doesn't really make any vow on behalf of the candidate, but he or she is supposed to be someone who will help the candidate to keep his/her vows after the confirmation and will continuously assist him/her in his/her spiritual life.

At least, that is what I remember from my confirmation, but I was 15 at the time and I confess that I don't remember all the details of the liturgy.