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  #341  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:20 PM
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Another way to look at this from the Queen's viewpoint. If HM approved Parliament's passing the amendment to the Act of Succession in 2013 that not only allows the first born child to become heir to the throne regardless of gender but also allows for those in the line of succession to marry a Roman Catholic should they wish to, why would the Queen then be adamant that her grandson *only* marry a woman that has been baptized and confirmed in the Church of England. It just doesn't make sense.

The Queen's approval for Harry to marry has absolutely nothing to do with religion. It has to do with HM's role as monarch. He may have had some problems getting consent if he came asking to marry the sister of Bashar Hafez al-Assad, for example. He could have asked and gotten consent to marry Meghan if she was a practicing Buddhist, or be an atheist or whatever spiritual path she chooses to follow. As has been stated, the Church of England itself finds no reason why these two should not marry. The Queen has given her consent as Harry's monarch and obviously the families on both sides are overjoyed with the engagement.

Whatever Meghan does or doesn't do as far as her joining the Church of England is her own decision. No one else has any impact on that.
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  #342  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:24 PM
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Except I didn’t say most Britons. I said eyebrows would be raised and they would.

If Meghan said I want a big church wedding, say my vows before God but you know what, I don’t want to be baptised or confirmed. I’m sure The Queen would give her the side eye.

So for me either Meghan Markle has had some religious epiphany and now wants to be baptised or people have had a word. I know what I believe.
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  #343  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Except I didnít say most Britons. I said eyebrows would be raised and they would.

If Meghan said I want a big church wedding, say my vows before God but you know what, I donít want to be baptised or confirmed. Iím sure The Queen would give her the side eye.

So for me either Meghan Markle has had some religious epiphany and now wants to be baptised or people have had a word. I know what I believe.
We can assume the Queen gives the side eye as much as we want. That's still far way off from they CAN'T. The truth is there is nothing preventing it. If whoever officiates feels comfortable, I doubt the Queen is going to pipe up and put a stop to it.
  #344  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Except I didnít say most Britons. I said eyebrows would be raised and they would.

So for me either Meghan Markle has had some religious epiphany and now wants to be baptised or people have had a word. I know what I believe.
Your original post said:

Quote:
How many eyebrows would have been raised not least by The Queen if Meghan didnít get baptised.

This is a royal wedding. I know times are changing but they havenít changed that much.
My post was intended to demonstrate that times have indeed changed that much. Religion in the UK is very different today than it was just twenty years ago and if Meghan had said she had wanted a big church wedding without baptism or confirmation it would not only have been possible but the vast majority wouldn't have thought twice about it. The Queen, perhaps. But I don't presume to know what the Queen thinks.
  #345  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
If Meghan said I want a big church wedding, say my vows before God but you know what, I donít want to be baptised or confirmed. Iím sure The Queen would give her the side eye.
I disagree. We could take your sentence and add into it that not only does she not wish to be baptized and confirmed but also add in that she was converting to the Roman Catholic church and the marriage *still* would have gotten the Queen's approval and blessing and the Church of England allow the marriage to take place in whichever CoE church they wanted it to be in.
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  #346  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:43 PM
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Harry doesn’t need the approval of the ‘vast majority’ , he needs the approval of his deeply religious grandmother.

People can scoff and no doubt they do but The Queen takes it seriously.
  #347  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
.....

So for me either Meghan Markle has had some religious epiphany and now wants to be baptised or people have had a word. I know what I believe.
Many of us who had given little thought to religion prior to committing to marriage and future parenthood did have a bit of an epiphany when we gave consideration to our future. We saw the connection between G-dís love for us and our love for the future we and our family would share.

And Meghan is 36 years old. Women that age donít need Ďpeople to have a wordí with us in order to make a serious decision.
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  #348  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:50 PM
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Presumably Meghan was serious about her first marriage. She didn’t need religion then but along comes Prince Harry who’s grandmother is Supreme Governor of the Church of England and voila, Meghan is getting baptised and confirmed.

As they would say on Seinfeld, that’s a big coincidence. And like I said, I know what I believe.
  #349  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:53 PM
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The Queen seems to take the stance to live and let live with her family. If Meghan simply identifies as Christian and didn’t feel the need to join the COE why would it matter if she had a big church wedding? As it were, it’s all moot since she is having a big church wedding and is getting confirmed. Further, she seems to have a strong background in faith given her education and her charitable commitments so this is hardly coming out of nowhere. Even if she isn’t a pious practicing Christian (and given that no one else in the family seems to be besides the Queen and Charles supposedly), why care about if she is or is not confirmed? How is that a marker of her spiritual sincereity?In America, denominations are much more fluid as others have mentioned and folks move around a lot over the course of their lives between different traditions and confirmed or re baptized or never baptized but still take faith seriously. Meghan being confirmed in the COE literally doesn’t bat most people’s eyes.

I feel like some posters on here are trying to insinuate a negative out of her decision to be confirmed or insinuate she isn’t really committed and only doing it to save face. Maybe that is true but maybe it isn’t. Regardless, many people get confirmed for cultural reasons versus spiritual. Not sure why this is being so dragged out...
  #350  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:56 PM
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there was a man Henry de Navarra who said: Paris is worth a mass .... -
  #351  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:58 PM
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It amazes me that people who have never met someone can decide how sincere they are in their religious convictions. Very strange.
  #352  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
there was a man Henry de Navarra who said: Paris is worth a mass .... -
And getting married to a Prince is worth a baptism
  #353  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
And getting married to a Prince is worth a baptism

The Prince of Wales is known to attend services in the Orthodox tradition. The Duchess of Kent and Princess Michael are practicing Roman Catholics. I have never seen any evidence to suggest that Prince Harry attends church on a weekly basis. I think if the Queen demanded absolutely unswerving loyalty to the Church of England as Henry VIII once did, weíd have seen consequences of it by now. Unless you know something about Her Majestyís rigid religious scruples we donít.
  #354  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
And getting married to a Prince is worth a baptism
And no one is saying it isn't if it's what is wanted. We are just disputing the she needs to do this in order to be a member of BRF or marry in church. She doesn't.
  #355  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:18 PM
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Meghan knows perfectly well that she is marrying into the BRF whose head is also the head of the Church of England. So, it might be said that this decision is completely hers but that ignores the fact that context matters. Her choice isn't made in a vacuum.

Had Harry NOT been a prominent member of the BRF, she might have made a different decision: for example, a church wedding because of Harry's Anglican background without necessarily Meghan being baptized and confirmed as well. Or they might have considered that they would like future children to be baptized and that's why they decide that it would be best if Meghan also becomes an official church member (before or after marriage).

All in all, imo it is Meghan's decision - as I don't think she would do it against her will - but her decision is influenced by the unique circumstances she is in.
  #356  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Meghan knows perfectly well that she is marrying into the BRF whose head is also the head of the Church of England. So, it might be said that this decision is completely hers but that ignores the fact that context matters. Her choice isn't made in a vacuum.

Had Harry NOT been a prominent member of the BRF, she might have made a different decision: for example, a church wedding because of Harry's Anglican background without necessarily Meghan being baptized and confirmed as well. Or they might have considered that they would like future children to be baptized and that's why they decide that it would be best if Meghan also becomes an official church member (before or after marriage).

All in all, imo it is Meghan's decision - as I don't think she would do it against her will - but her decision is influenced by the unique circumstances she is in.
I absolutely agree that she's made certain decision based on the fact that Harry is who he is and she's going to have a prominent public role as his wife. However, she still had a choice. She could've taken a different route and it still would work. Does her decision on this make certain things easier in terms of managing public reaction? Yes, but not the only way. But some earlier posts made it seem like the Queen made her list of demands in order to give permission for a church wedding is simply ludicrous. It fact, it was flat out stated by some that Meghan didn't have a choice but to do so.
  #357  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:27 PM
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Had she chose not to get baptised The Queen would may have still granted permission on the condition it was a civil ceremony. No point having a big religious ceremony if she wasn’t willing to get baptised. I think she made that clear when she granted permission. That’s my opinion
  #358  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Had she chose not to get baptised The Queen would may have still granted permission on the condition it was a civil ceremony. No point having a big religious ceremony if she wasnít willing to get baptised. I think she made that clear when she granted permission. Thatís my opinion


This simply isnít true. Youíre entitled to your opinion but it doesnít change the fact that Meghan does not need baptism or confirmation to marry in an Anglican Church.
  #359  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Had she chose not to get baptised The Queen would may have still granted permission on the condition it was a civil ceremony. No point having a big religious ceremony if she wasnít willing to get baptised. I think she made that clear when she granted permission. Thatís my opinion
Tell me, do you think our Queen also blackmailed Sophie and Autumn? Mike Tindall? All had church weddings, not civil.
  #360  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Gaudete View Post
This simply isnít true. Youíre entitled to your opinion but it doesnít change the fact that Meghan does not need baptism or confirmation to marry in an Anglican Church.
The Queen can set it as a condition for Harry. He needs her permission before the marriage can take place in the first place

If Harry was Joe Bloggs it wouldnít matter but The Queen has standards.
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