Meghan Markle: Citizenship and Religious Conversion

[American Observer7]

Originally Posted by AdmirerUS

If no one has posted this, here it is and we all should read it. Basically, Meghan must retain dual citizenship for 3 years and she can be double taxed as long as she has that status. Meaning both the US and UK can tax her earnings. Which would include gifts of value. Also, the US can demand spousal records of those with dual citizenship and joint accounts. No Bueno from the perspective of the BRF. This is a sincere reason for her to renounce US citizenship after that 3 year period. I'd consider it and I love my country deeply. But double dipping is just crummy!

Apparently Eritrea is the only other country that does this tax thing with those with dual citizenship. Everyone else just allows taxes where you reside.

Even odder, for state taxes, I am taxed where my employer pays my state taxes and also in my state of residence, if that differs. It differs from state to state, but at a state level, I also saw this double dipping for years.

The article: https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/pr...-accounts.html. Tip of the hat to the Fun Girls for supplying the link and the info. https://www.gofugyourself.com/. Their weekly Royal Round up always has insightful nuggets like this to peruse, IMO.

Well, if this is true, I would renounce US citizenship too in her shoes! That is disgusting!

[AdmirerUS]

Originally Posted by Ish

Can you clarify a bit on this? Does Meghan have to retain her US citizenship for 3 years after becoming a UK citizen?

It is the second place I have read this, and yes. From the prior article I gathered that it is a 3 year process to become a UK citizen by marriage - and people in this thread have mentioned that too. So maybe I overspoke by saying she is dual for 3 years. The UK process takes 3 years overall. Heaven knows at what point in there she becomes dual! But it will be a tax mess for a while, however. Thank heaven for assigning gifts to the crown, because if some country gave her a bauble, she'd be taxed on it in both places. But even in cases where (for example as we have seen with other Royal ladies) a student designs a one off couture gown for Meghan to wear - that would be double taxed. Seems unfair, no? But then, life is unfair sometimes.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by AdmirerUS

It is the second place I have read this, and yes. From the prior article I gathered that it is a 3 year process to become a UK citizen by marriage - and people in this thread have mentioned that too. So maybe I overspoke by saying she is dual for 3 years. The UK process takes 3 years overall. Heaven knows at what point in there she becomes dual! But it will be a tax mess for a while, however. Thank heaven for assigning gifts to the crown, because if some country gave her a bauble, she'd be taxed on it in both places. But even in cases where (for example as we have seen with other Royal ladies) a student designs a one off couture gown for Meghan to wear - that would be double taxed. Seems unfair, no? But then, life is unfair sometimes.

Two things. I think someone mentioned yesterday that after 2012, the new rule is 5 years rather than 3. Second, if she's given a bauble by foreign national, it's not taxable. She'll have to disclose, which can create another set of problems.

[Somebody]

Meghan could give up US citizenship as soon as she's British. So, the actual dual citizenship period could be extremely short. The problem as has been mentioned before is that any children they might have in that period would be Americans at least until they turn 18 - as that is the earliest age they can renounce.

Originally Posted by jacqui24

Two things. I think someone mentioned yesterday that after 2012, the new rule is 5 years rather than 3. Second, if she's given a bauble by foreign national, it's not taxable. She'll have to disclose, which can create another set of problems.

According to the government website it is still 3 years.

Not sure whether they could interpret the final part (Harry working for the government) to waive the requirement for living in the UK for 3 years - I am sure this rule wasn't meant for these circumstance, so I don't think they would go that round but was just wondering whether that would be a way out.

On what passport would Meghan be traveling as Harry's wife (especially when representing the queen) while not yet a UK citizen? I believe the royal family travels on diplomatic passports but she can't be issued a UK diplomatic passport as an American citizen. Maybe the Americans are willing to give her a US diplomatic passport but that would be rather awkward too...

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Somebody

On what passport would Meghan be traveling as Harry's wife (especially when representing the queen) while not yet a UK citizen? I believe the royal family travels on diplomatic passports but she can't be issued a UK diplomatic passport as an American citizen. Maybe the Americans are willing to give her a US diplomatic passport but that would be rather awkward too...

That was my concern too. But I wasnt sure if they travel on diplomatic passport. She can’t be issues a US diplomatic passport. This whole thing is becoming dumber by the minute.

I get the whole thing about following the rules like a normal person. But the moment she says I do, she’s not and her life is not a normal life.

[Princess Squirrel]

Originally Posted by Ish

Can you clarify a bit on this? Does Meghan have to retain her US citizenship for 3 years after becoming a UK citizen?

No she doesn't. And it will take a minimum of FIVE years to get permanent residency, after which she can apply for naturalisation straight away. Not sure what THREE years has to do with anything.

Originally Posted by Somebody

According to the government website it is still 3 years.

Not sure whether they could interpret the final part (Harry working for the government) to waive the requirement for living in the UK for 3 years - I am sure this rule wasn't meant for these circumstance, so I don't think they would go that round but was just wondering whether that would be a way out.

If you read bullet point five on the link you quoted, it says you must have Indefinite Leave to Remain to apply for citizenship as the spouse of a UK citizen. It takes five years to get ILR. So unless anyone can think of a quicker way to get the permanent residency (I can't unless they fast track Meghan), it's five years. As soon as she gets ILR so can naturalised. That's the difference between the spouse visa and a work visa. With a work visa you need to have held ILR for a year before you can apply to naturalise.

Hope this clears up the whole 3 years thing.

[loonytick]

Is there really no way for a minor to renounce US citizenship?

That just surprises me because my father, who was born with dual citizenship, was naturalized to be simply a US citizen at 12 or 13. Of course, it was the 60s and the citizenship he was getting rid of was not the American one, but I never imagined that option wouldn’ have been available to families in this kind of situation.

In his case, he was born to American parents in West Germany. They were going back to Germany for a few years and wanted to make sure that if the Cold War heated up while they were there was zero chance of him being drafted.

My mother was also born with dual citizenship (born and raised in South America, parents from the US). She has kept hers because there aren’t really any complicating factors for her.

But I should note that both of my parents feel similarly strong bonds to the nations of their birth, even though one renounced that citizenship and the other kept it. Legal status and heritage are two very different things. One is a matter of simple practicality. The other is about pride of place, culture, memories and connection. You can easily keep the second without holding on to the first.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by loonytick

Is there really no way for a minor to renounce US citizenship?

That just surprises me because my father, who was born with dual citizenship, was naturalized to be simply a US citizen at 12 or 13. Of course, it was the 60s and the citizenship he was getting rid of was not the American one, but I never imagined that option wouldn’ have been available to families in this kind of situation.

In his case, he was born to American parents in West Germany. They were going back to Germany for a few years and wanted to make sure that if the Cold War heated up while they were there was zero chance of him being drafted.

My mother was also born with dual citizenship (born and raised in South America, parents from the US). She has kept hers because there aren’t really any complicating factors for her.

But I should note that both of my parents feel similarly strong bonds to the nations of their birth, even though one renounced that citizenship and the other kept it. Legal status and heritage are two very different things. One is a matter of simple practicality. The other is about pride of place, culture, memories and connection. You can easily keep the second without holding on to the first.

Renouncing citizenship is determined by the country you are renouncing. In this case of Meghan and any potential children, US makes the rules on how they can and cannot renounce. And US is of age. When I renounced my Chinese citizenship, I didn't even have to renounce as it was automatically done the minute I became US citizen.

[Rudolph]

Various American magazines are reporting that Meghan is spending Christmas in the UK.

The BBC has an article a couple of days ago about citizenship and visa requirements. Apparently when you apply for a visa it takes 3 months and you’re not allowed back in the country until approved.

So if she does spend the holidays at Anmer either the rules are being bent or she hasn’t applied.

Does anyone have anymore information? Am I correct in my interpretation.

[Somebody]

She cannot apply for citizenship yet. She first needs to marry Harry (to be able to take the shorter route) and only after having lived in the UK for 3 years (and she even has to apply on a date that she truly was in the UK 3 years earlier), she can apply for citizenship.

It is possible that she is only now applying for her fiancee visa (in that way leaking wouldn't be an issue, and they would have the whole month of May to get married) and that she still was in the UK on a tourist visa the last two weeks.

The US is one of the countries with an expedited service for settlement visas. Premium applications can be done in 10-15 days.

[Winnie]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Prince Philip get an immediately fast-track UK citizenship by the then king the day prior to Queen Elizabeth and his wedding? Thought I heard a commentator remark on that in one of the many specials I have watched about this couple. I don't know how to look something like this up on the Internet but I know someone on this forum has the brain to accomplish. Just wondering.

[Ish]

Originally Posted by Rudolph

Various American magazines are reporting that Meghan is spending Christmas in the UK.



The BBC has an article a couple of days ago about citizenship and visa requirements. Apparently when you apply for a visa it takes 3 months and you’re not allowed back in the country until approved.



So if she does spend the holidays at Anmer either the rules are being bent or she hasn’t applied.



Does anyone have anymore information? Am I correct in my interpretation.

We don’t know if she has a visa yet or not - it could be that she applied for one before coming to London in November. Was she spotted in the UK in the 3 months before the engagement?

[Curryong]

Originally Posted by Winnie

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Prince Philip get an immediately fast-track UK citizenship by the then king the day prior to Queen Elizabeth and his wedding? Thought I heard a commentator remark on that in one of the many specials I have watched about this couple. I don't know how to look something like this up on the Internet but I know someone on this forum has the brain to accomplish. Just wondering.

I have the biography Young Prince Philip by Philip Eade. According to that Prince Philip's naturalisation was published in the London Gazette on the 18th March 1947.

Those were however very different times. Prince Philip put his application in through his Commanding Officer under a clause which fast tracked for citizenship those foreigners who had served in the British armed forces during the war.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Ish

We don’t know if she has a visa yet or not - it could be that she applied for one before coming to London in November. Was she spotted in the UK in the 3 months before the engagement?

You are not allowed into the UK while your application is being processed, and as H&M said that H proposed in London, she has been in the UK prior to at least her last sighting a week before the announcement - I don't think it has been a one way street for the months August - October with Harry flying out every single time.

And if she would have come on a fiancee visa since the start of November they have to get married at the latest the first few days of May. As I mentioned before, premium application (which is a possibility for US citizens) takes only 10-15 days, so the most likely option imo would be that she is using her current trip to LA to apply for the fiancee visa which could be processed in time for her to return to the UK for the Christmas lunch.

[Winnie]

Originally Posted by Curryong

I have Prince Philip's biography Young Prince Philip by Philip Eade. According to that Prince Philip's naturalisation was published in the London Gazette on the 18th March 1947.

Those were however very different times. Prince Philip put his application in through his Commanding Officer under a clause which fast tracked for British citizenship those foreigners who had served in the British armed services during the war.

Thank you. I appreciate you clearing up that fact for me.

[Iluvbertie]

As it turned out, of course, Philip was a British citizen from birth under the Sophia Naturalisation Act but no one realised that at the time. The British government wanted to reward foreign nationals who had fought for the UK in the war and so allowed the fast tracking of citizenship and Philip took advantage of that - nothing not available to 1000s of others in the same situation.

[Zaira]

Originally Posted by Somebody

You are not allowed into the UK while your application is being processed, and as H&M said that H proposed in London, she has been in the UK prior to at least her last sighting a week before the announcement - I don't think it has been a one way street for the months August - October with Harry flying out every single time.

And if she would have come on a fiancee visa since the start of November they have to get married at the latest the first few days of May. As I mentioned before, premium application (which is a possibility for US citizens) takes only 10-15 days, so the most likely option imo would be that she is using her current trip to LA to apply for the fiancee visa which could be processed in time for her to return to the UK for the Christmas lunch.

This makes sense and might be why she returned to the US.

Certainly a brave new world for the BRF! The days of royals getting special laws passed for them to be fast tracked to citizenship are gone, I suppose. Mary of Denmark had such a law passed for her when she was marrying Frederick I believe. I don’t think that will be allowed with Meghan especially given all of the Brexit unrest with EU spouses...

[Princess Squirrel]

Originally Posted by Somebody

She cannot apply for citizenship yet. She first needs to marry Harry (to be able to take the shorter route) and only after having lived in the UK for 3 years (and she even has to apply on a date that she truly was in the UK 3 years earlier), she can apply for citizenship.

It is possible that she is only now applying for her fiancee visa (in that way leaking wouldn't be an issue, and they would have the whole month of May to get married) and that she still was in the UK on a tourist visa the last two weeks.

The US is one of the countries with an expedited service for settlement visas. Premium applications can be done in 10-15 days.

This myth about citizenship in 3 years just won't die will it? Apparently a lot of people are going to get a surprise when she doesn't get it in 3 years.

ILR is a two step process. The first spouse visa (Limited Leave to Remain or LLR) is issued for 2.5 years. Then you have to apply again for another 2.5 years. Only then after a total of 5 years can you apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain.

I'm not making this up. My husband emigrated from the US to the UK in 1998. In those days you got ILR after one year if married to a Briton. Then they changed it to two years. In 2012 it was changed to five years. My husband naturalised as British in April 2016. I have kept up to date with the rules since he first came to the UK and was a member of a forum dealing with UK and US immigration.

But apparently from a quick read on the internet other people know better.

[Cocoasneeze]

Originally Posted by Somebody

You are not allowed into the UK while your application is being processed, and as H&M said that H proposed in London, she has been in the UK prior to at least her last sighting a week before the announcement - I don't think it has been a one way street for the months August - October with Harry flying out every single time.

And if she would have come on a fiancee visa since the start of November they have to get married at the latest the first few days of May. As I mentioned before, premium application (which is a possibility for US citizens) takes only 10-15 days, so the most likely option imo would be that she is using her current trip to LA to apply for the fiancee visa which could be processed in time for her to return to the UK for the Christmas lunch.

This makes the most sense. I'm also suspecting, that Harry joined her in LA, unless I've missed sightings of him in the UK.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Princess Squirrel

This myth about citizenship in 3 years just won't die will it? Apparently a lot of people are going to get a surprise when she doesn't get it in 3 years.

I wrote my previous post before reading your excellent explanation about IRL.

However, dismissing people because they check a government website (!) instead of believing someone who says 'nowadays it is 5 years' without any explanation (initially), isn't that helpful for the discussion either.