Meghan Markle: Citizenship and Religious Conversion

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Is that automatic or do you need to apply for American citizenship if one of your parents is a US citizen and you are born on foreign soil?

It's automatic, I'm pretty sure, given friends of mine.

P.S. There may be an age when one declares oneself, and it may also have to do with the country (Canada vs England, or France, or Germany, etc).

[wyevale]

Exquisitely put [as ever] Osipi.

[jacqui24]

I think once this dies down and things get into a routine, it'll likely be a quiet event by the time she actually gets her British citizenship. I still think eventually she'll renounce, but it might not be made a big deal by the palace. Can you imagine the optics of a working member of the royal family whose security is paid for by British taxpayer and lives on palace grounds rent free to be paying US tax? I think even the royalists would have a problem with it.

[Sunnystar]

I suspect that Meghan is much like my nieces and nephew who have all been exposed to Christian teachings, even attended Sunday School periodically, as children, and certainly have an awareness of what being a Christian means - ie taking Jesus Christ as your personal Savior. But none of them have taken that critical step of accepting Jesus Christ. I have cousins who were raised similarly and it was only when they married and started having kids that they accepted Jesus Christ. I have an aunt (same age as Prince Charles) who was drifted far from her religious upbringing in her twenties and then, when she decided she wanted kids, found her way back to Christ. I find it entirely plausible that Meghan has chosen to take this very personal step because she wants a more personal faith experience for her children than she has had to date. Maybe she wouldn't have chosen the Anglican Church if she wasn't marrying Harry. We know her dad is Episcopalian but I don't think we have yet heard what Protestant denomination her mom is, so maybe she would have chosen her mom's denomination instead. There is, IMO, at least a 33% chance she would have chosen Anglican/Episcopalian. I just can't get myself all worked up over this because, when it comes right down to it, I can't help but rejoice that Meghan had chosen to accept Jesus Christ into her life. (And we really don't have any idea how religious or non-religious Harry is, so again, who are we to judge?)

[Princess Squirrel]

Please no more talk of religion! Both my hubby and I are baptised but not confirmed. But were we joining the most high profile family in the country, we would probably get confirmed. It wouldn't make us better believers, just put us on a par with the rest of the family. Besides it's not very Christian in itself to judge others badly who are not 'bad' in any way!

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Lady Nimue

It's automatic, I'm pretty sure, given friends of mine.

P.S. There may be an age when one declares oneself, and it may also have to do with the country (Canada vs England, or France, or Germany, etc).

Thanks! Looked it up on a government website to learn more about the specifics and it seems that a child of Meghan and Harry would qualify as Meghan lived at least 5 years in the States:

Birth Abroad in Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen and an Alien

A person born abroad in wedlock to a U.S. citizen and an alien acquires U.S. citizenship at birth if the U.S. citizen parent has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions prior to the person’s birth for the period required by the statute in effect when the person was born (INA 301(g), formerly INA 301(a)(7).) For birth on or after November 14, 1986, the U.S. citizen parent must have been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for five years prior to the person’s birth, at least two of which were after the age of fourteen. (...) The U.S. citizen parent must be the genetic or the gestational parent and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the child’s birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.

Nonetheless, they could still decide not to apply for a US passport - they might not be able to renounce citizenship; that might be something that the child has to do for him/herself when becoming of age (if he/she wants to).

[Alliec76]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

I think once this dies down and things get into a routine, it'll likely be a quiet event by the time she actually gets her British citizenship. I still think eventually she'll renounce, but it might not be made a big deal by the palace. Can you imagine the optics of a working member of the royal family whose security is paid for by British taxpayer and lives on palace grounds rent free to be paying US tax? I think even the royalists would have a problem with it.

But that will be years down the road. They've been very clear she will be following normal protocol in applying for British citizenship. So it's 3 years at least. I just read an article explaining that she will be complying with US, Canadian and UK tax laws. I don't see them fast tracking her citizenship after they went out of their way to say she will be going about the process the same as anyone else. Now when she does get her UK citizenship she may very well give up her US citizenship. But for a few years at least she will be paying US taxes. There is no way around it.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Alliec76

But that will be years down the road. They've been very clear she will be following normal protocol in applying for British citizenship. So it's 3 years at least. I just read an article explaining that she will be complying with US, Canadian and UK tax laws. I don't see them fast tracking her citizenship after they went out of their way to say she will be going about the process the same as anyone else. Now when she does get her UK citizenship she may very well give up her US citizenship. But for a few years at least she will be paying US taxes. There is no way around it.

She has no obligation to Canadian tax law after this year. She is no longer working there and she is unlikely to be a legal resident. Probably just on work visa.

[Alliec76]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

She has no obligation to Canadian tax law after this year. She is no longer working there and she is unlikely to be a legal resident. Probably just on work visa.

True. I was just stating what they said in the article, but yes after this year, she wouldn't need to pay any taxes in Canada. Not sure why they included that. But she will have to pay US taxes for a few years at least.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Alliec76

True. I was just stating what they said in the article, but yes after this year, she wouldn't need to pay any taxes in Canada. Not sure why they included that. But she will have to pay US taxes for a few years at least.

What's worse is that she will have to file FBAR. It's a disclosure form that IRS requires US persons to disclose any financial interest they have in a foreign account. Their names doesn't even have to be on it, it's required if they have signing authority. That's in addition to the annual tax return filing.

[Alliec76]

Originally Posted by jacqui24

What's worse is that she will have to file FBAR. It's a disclosure form that IRS requires US persons to disclose any financial interest they have in a foreign account. Their names doesn't even have to be on it, it's required if they have signing authority. That's in addition to the annual tax return filing.

That certainly sounds like a headache. But I do think in the current climate, people will respect her for following the same laws and protocols as any other person seeking UK citizenship. They may not like her paying US taxes with their tax money (although my guess is she'll use her own money), but I think they'd like it less if she jumped the line, when the immigration issue is so hotly contested right now in the UK (and the US as well). The royal family can't be political, but they certainly have to be aware of the political climate they are operating in. And it is tense all over right now.

[Spheno]

"U.S. citizens are subject to U.S. tax obligations regardless of their country of residence," Peter Spiro, a Temple University law professor and the author of “At Home in Two Countries: The Past and Future of Dual Citizenship," wrote in an email to The Washington Post. "A member of the royal family would be treated just like anyone else."
[...]
For Prince Harry, the issue isn't that he will suddenly end up paying U.S. income tax, but rather that Markle's American citizenship could open up the secretive finances of the royal family to outside scrutiny. If she remains a U.S. citizen, Markle will have to file her taxes to the IRS every year.
This sharing of financial information with the U.S. government would probably be undesirable for the royal family, which has long preferred that its finances remain opaque.
[...]
Royal children would complicated matters even further. "Parents cannot elect to have a child lose his or her U.S. citizenship, so the children will be U.S. citizens (and therefore, U.S. taxpayers) unless they decide to give it up when they reach the age of majority," said Kristin Konschnik, a lawyer with London-based Butler Snow law firm.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.fb7af36902ac

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by Spheno

For Prince Harry, the issue isn't that he will suddenly end up paying U.S. income tax, but rather that Markle's American citizenship could open up the secretive finances of the royal family to outside scrutiny. If she remains a U.S. citizen, Markle will have to file her taxes to the IRS every year.
This sharing of financial information with the U.S. government would probably be undesirable for the royal family, which has long preferred that its finances remain opaque.

I do want to point out something here. The IRS keeps confidentiality on all taxpayers. The tax returns will not come out to the public. However, the concern is probably over US government having access to information on some of the BRF's finances.

[Zonk]

But as a working royal who is not working (for a paycheck), can't she just report zero income to the IRS?

[tihkon2]

Originally Posted by Zonk

But as a working royal who is not working (for a paycheck), can't she just report zero income to the IRS?

I think you're correct. Prince Harry receives money from The Duchy of Cornwall, not from taxpayers. So I guess when gowns and jewels are given to Meghan, they can be declared as gifts.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by tihkon2

I think you're correct. Prince Harry receives money from The Duchy of Cornwall, not from taxpayers. So I guess when gowns and jewels are given to Meghan, they can be declared as gifts.

Reimbursement for royal duties aren't considered income. Personal gifts from foreigners are not subject to US gift tax. Only gifts from any US individual over $14k are subject to tax, but the tax burden on the person giving the gift.

However, it is likely they have personal wealth that is accruing interest at this point. If any future children is set up with a trust, they'll have to file US tax returns as well. Just because they are underage, doesn't mean they don't have to file tax return. If investment income reach over a certain limit (and it is a very small limit, in thousands), they will have to file tax returns as well. They won't be able to renounce US citizenship until they reach the age of majority either whereas Meghan can renounce whenever she received British citizenship. This has a potential to be a big headache.

Originally Posted by Zonk

But as a working royal who is not working (for a paycheck), can't she just report zero income to the IRS?

It's not as simple as that. I would still expect her and Harry to have personal investment income. She won't have to report gifts from foreign individuals, however FBAR becomes an issues for financial assets. FBAR is based on asset, not just income. Not only does that include her assets, but if they have joint accounts, those would need to be declared as well. I think the concern here is that the members of British royal family will have to disclose their assets to US government that might make people uncomfortable.

[Zonk]

Well, one thing is for certain. She will have the best experts consulting her on what to do and what not to do.

[jacqui24]

Originally Posted by tihkon2

I think you're correct. Prince Harry receives money from The Duchy of Cornwall, not from taxpayers. So I guess when gowns and jewels are given to Meghan, they can be declared as gifts.

This is more like reimbursement of business expense if we think about it. It's not for her personal use, but use when she's conducting official business. It'd be a wash of income and expense.

[wyevale]

This entire 'can of worms' will be avoided if the Lady simply retains her US citizenship until her UK citizenship is granted, and then gives up her US passport.

I hear some howling 'but she IS American'... YES, the World knows this, and it will always know that that was where she was born, and brought up...

[loonytick]

Surely they can keep their finances separate after marriage until she's able to only be a UK citizen, can't they?