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  #4641  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:32 PM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
If they use the same liturgy as William and Catherine, the giving away is part of the ceremony, so I'm curious to see whether this liturgy is used. I would hope that Doria can be the one to give away - in Catherine's case it was her father who put her hand in William's.
Nothing prevents Doria from giving her away. As it has been mentioned here, Queen Victoria gave away Princess Beatrice.

And now that it is confirmed that Tom Sr cannot attend because he is undergoing heart surgery tomorrow, Doria has a reasonable excuse to replace him. It looks to me that the matter is settled now unless Meghan asks to postpone the wedding.
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  #4642  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
If they were close, she would have introduced her future husband to her dad.
Each person to their own. I'm not going to guess what I don't know could've happened or not. What I know has happened is that this woman had the rug pulled out from under her days before one of the most important days of her life in front of the world, and she's thinking of her father and his well being despite the fact that she's the innocent one getting hurt the most here. If that's not love, I don't know what is.
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  #4643  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
... is that even before this weekís issues, no plan had been made for someone (ideally his diplomat brother) to accompany Mr. Markle on his trip and to provide companionship and support during his stay in the U.K.

Are we to assume that an elderly man with a very low-key lifestyle was going to fly alone on a 12 hour flight, not including home to airport and pre flight time, and then to spend several days in a hotel or other place without any companionship other than the few minutes his daughter could spare?

Sounds cruel and unusual to me. I donít believe he ever intended/was intended to come.
Why do you assume there was no plan? I'm quite sure that at least for the UK part everything was worked out; and maybe it was even arranged that one of his grandchildren would travel with him or someone else. KP surely must have intended for him to come. They wouldn't send out a press release stating that he would walk his daughter down the aisle if they knew beforehand it would have to be someone else.
  #4644  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Each person to their own. I'm not going to guess what I don't know could've happened or not. What I know has happened is that this woman had the rug pulled out from under her days before one of the most important days of her life in front of the world, and she's thinking of her father and his well being. If that's not love, I don't know what is.

The official "version" will be that Tom Sr. wanted to be there for Meghan, but could not because he had a heart attack and had to undergo surgery. That version casts her father in a much more positive light than originally thought and gives a credible way out for the RF to save the wedding by replacing Tom Sr, with someone else more reliable without looking like that they are breaching protocol.

Meghan doesn't have to be close to his biological father to be concerned about his health, especially when he is experiencing a life-threatening condition.
  #4645  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Each person to their own. I'm not going to guess what I don't know could've happened or not. What I know has happened is that this woman had the rug pulled out from under her days before one of the most important days of her life in front of the world, and she's thinking of her father and his well being despite the fact that she's the innocent one getting hurt the most here. If that's not love, I don't know what is.
She clearly cares about him but being close and caring about and loving each other are two different things. It's not that the only alternative to being close is being compketely indifferent. It's still her father and she his daughter. He is just less important and close to Meghan than others - for example, she is far closer to her mom and some of her friends.
  #4646  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Each person to their own. I'm not going to guess what I don't know could've happened or not. What I know has happened is that this woman had the rug pulled out from under her days before one of the most important days of her life in front of the world, and she's thinking of her father and his well being. If that's not love, I don't know what is.
I agree.

I think it's really easy to assume that the way things are done in your own family--how you show love, how often family members see each other, or talk--is the one and only "correct" way, and that if someone else doesn't do things that way then there is something wrong with the relationship. That just isn't true. People vary, and it's pointless to assume that there is some universally accepted standard for how often family members talk, see each other, spend holidays together, etc.

Meghan has said she loves and is close to her dad, and she is the authority on her own feelings. I'll take her at her word, even if it wouldn't be the way things would work in my own family.
  #4647  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The official "version" will be that Tom Sr. wanted to be there for Meghan, but could not because he had a heart attack and had to undergo surgery. That version casts her father in a much more positive light than originally thought and gives a credible way out for the RF to save the wedding by replacing Tom Sr, with someone else more reliable without looking like that they are breaching protocol.

Meghan doesn't have to be close to his biological father to be concerned about his health, especially when he is experiencing a life-threatening condition.
There is no office version from the Palace. They released that statement without knowing what the plans will be. They had no idea the initial TMZ report was coming, which was reported by multiple royal correspondents in describing the reaction when they ring the Palace. And honestly, the Palace is not going to let Tom Markle go to TMZ to announce this if they knew ahead of time. And have you considered what if he does have a heart surgery? I find comments like that quite mean and uncomfortable if the man really is that sick.

Somehow you are saying that Meghan isn't close to him, but concerned enough for him even though she's working with a palace to conspire on how to kick him out of her wedding. If I'm kicking you out of my wedding, I don't give a damn about your health at that point and I'm certainly not going to ask anyone to respect or understand you.
  #4648  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:55 PM
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IF and a big IF this man needs surgery...yesterday it was because of Samantha, today itís because of his sonís letter...how about itís because of cheeseburgers and other bad choices Mr. Markle Sr alone made. Itís never ending..I wish ill-health on no one. No sympathy here
  #4649  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:57 PM
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She clearly cares about him but being close and caring about and loving each other are two different things. It's not that the only alternative to being close is being compketely indifferent. It's still her father and she his daughter. He is just less important and close to Meghan than others - for example, she is far closer to her mom and some of her friends.
Look, family relationships are complex. Saying she's closer to her mother because they get along better or share more things in common is different than people flat out saying she's not close to her father, which is what's happening here.

So if any of us here is closer to one parent than another, doesn't that mean we aren't close to the other parent? That's just not how it works. Evaluate Meghan's relationship with her mother based on that relationship, and evaluate her relationship with her father based on that relationship.
  #4650  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Well, at least that settles the issue and provides an excuse to Mr Markle to save face. I wish him all the best in his surgery and that he makes a full recovery.

Meanwhile, Meghan can move on with the wedding plans. I think her mother will give her away,
Most likely his health issues are stress induced. However, blaming his son for his supposed heart attack (he apparently claims that he got it because jr wrote a public letter to discourage Harry from marrying Harry) is another weird move. I just hope he gets his act back together both physically and mentally.
  #4651  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:59 PM
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First, Mr. Markle was announced he will be there. Second, he is no longer able to go due to several factors. Third, he wants to go and probably will go. Fourth, he finally won't go due to surgery. Damn, what a mess...So much drama and confusion...Poor Meghan, I hope she doesn't suffer much from this and wish her the best day for her wedding. I'm rooting for her and for Harry, and I'm sure most people are!
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  #4652  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
There is no office version from the Palace. They released that statement without knowing what the plans will be. They had no idea the initial TMZ report was coming, which was reported by multiple royal correspondents in describing the reaction when they ring the Palace. And honestly, the Palace is not going to let Tom Markle go to TMZ to announce this if they knew ahead of time. And have you considered what if he does have a heart surgery? I find comments like that quite mean and uncomfortable if the man really is that sick.

Somehow you are saying that Meghan isn't close to him, but concerned enough for him even though she's working with a palace to conspire on how to kick him out of her wedding. If I'm kicking you out of my wedding, I don't give a damn about your health at that point and I'm certainly not going to ask anyone to respect or understand you.
Having seen my father have heart surgery when I was still a teen, I fully know what it entails. In fact, nowadays, if done properly by a competent team , it is a procedure that is highly likely to be successful. As I said, I wish him the best and I expect Mr Markle to make a full recovery. I dont think there is anything insensitive about the Palace officially acknowledging that Mr Markle won't be at the wedding because of his condition. The alternative would be to postpone the wedding, which, as I said, is unlikely.
  #4653  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:02 PM
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Most likely his health issues are stress induced. However, blaming his son for his supposed heart attack (he apparently claims that he got it because jr wrote a public letter to discourage Harry from marrying Harry) is another weird move. I just hope he gets his act back together both physically and mentally.
This family Somebody is The House of Pinocchio
  #4654  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:03 PM
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Did you notice the last part of the newest article from TMZ, confirming the heart surgery? "Thomas also says he believes the open letter his son, Thomas Jr., wrote to Prince Harry discouraging him from marrying Meghan is what triggered his heart attack.".

Jr and Sr doesn't seem to be on speaking terms...
  #4655  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:07 PM
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Oh good GOD! This man has no shame. IF he really has to undergo heart surgery tomorrow, LET KP ANNOUNCE IT!

His continued use of TMZ raises nothing but red flags. I also find it extremely suspect with all of the media staked outside his house no one got any pictures of him or an ambulence going to the hospital? The DM has several reporters on the ground in MX and LA and nothing??

Nothing makes sense with this man.
  #4656  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Having seen my father have heart surgery when I was still a teen, I fully know what it entails. In fact, nowadays, if done properly by a competent team , it is a procedure that is highly likely to be successful. As I said, I wish him the best and I expect Mr Markle to make a full recovery. I dont think there is anything insensitive about the Palace officially acknowledging that Mr Markle won't be at the wedding because of his condition. The alternative would be to postpone the wedding, which, as I said, is unlikely.
Yes, my point is that you have to have personal experience to really know the details of what heart surgery entails. I never said anything about insensitivity, in fact I was saying that they should just release a statement saying he wouldn't be coming due to illness and change the plans before this came out. My point was that somehow this makes him seem more sympathetic worthy if this was just a cover up. I'm not so quick to jump onto that bandwagon. It's a difficult situation, and if someone happens to fall this sick without people to support them, some do act out. It's unfortunate, and it's still wrong, but at least I'm not going to be as harsh as I was.
  #4657  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Look, family relationships are complex. Saying she's closer to her mother because they get along better or share more things in common is different than people flat out saying she's not close to her father, which is what's happening here.

So if any of us here is closer to one parent than another, doesn't that mean we aren't close to the other parent? That's just not how it works. Evaluate Meghan's relationship with her mother based on that relationship, and evaluate her relationship with her father based on that relationship.
That's what people have been doing. Of course someone can be close to both parents but it also a real option that someone is not that close but still cares about that family member.

Fact: she did not introduce Harry in person to her dad - while Harry for example made sure to introduce Meghan in person to his aunts. So, those are the actions on which the evaluation of Meghan's not so close relationship with her father are based. Talking to the tabloids instead of your own daughter confirms these inklings.

I guess the main issue is about definitions. In yours the category 'close' seems to range from sharing most details of your life with someone to being in touch once in a while and fine with the other not getting to know your future husband. In my definition that second one falls in a different category; I'd probably even have a category in between: close (Meghan and her mom) - good - fine/ok (Meghan and her dad, hopefully) - not so good/troubled - non-existent (Meghan and her siblings).
  #4658  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:13 PM
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I'm not trying to say he is totally innocent for releasing through TMZ and the confusion it has called, but what if Mr. Markle just doesn't know the protocol. I mean he doesn't seem very connected to all the inter-workings in London so maybe he thought he should go about releasing info like a celebrity would, through a high-profile outlet. Just throwing out ideas.
  #4659  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:14 PM
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Did you notice the last part of the newest article from TMZ, confirming the heart surgery? "Thomas also says he believes the open letter his son, Thomas Jr., wrote to Prince Harry discouraging him from marrying Meghan is what triggered his heart attack.".

Jr and Sr doesn't seem to be on speaking terms...
They aren't. I believe someone from the family has already confirmed that. They've had issues for years. The reason given was Tom Jr.'s substance abuse problems.
  #4660  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:14 PM
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There is no doubt in my mind that the antics of his older children and the stress of everything leading up to the wedding has caused a lot of stress on Mr. Markle and in turn, affected his heart and his health. Of course, the Happy Meals and KFC that he seems to enjoy didn't help matters either.

One of the blessings of all this is that Mr. Markle is exactly where he needs to be to get the problem taken care of. In the long run, it may have even saved his life if he had continued on and ignoring the warning signs.

From what I know of this type of surgery, its very commonplace, easily done and he'll soon be on the road to recovery. He'll definitely not be in any shape or form able to travel to the UK for the wedding. Its just not possible.
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