Harry and Meghan: Relationship Musings

[Lady Nimue]

Originally Posted by Zaira

[...], the present reality is that racism impacts the daily realities of people of color in very painful and visceral ways. Meghan, as a biracial black woman, has talked passionately about how racism has impacted her and her family. Her partner, Harry, had to release a statement condemning the racist coverage of Meghan, and comments all over the internet (and some I even heard in person while in the UK recently) show that her race will be an issue for a not insignificant amount of people no matter how much they protest that fact. So much of the "something isn't right about her" or the ridiculous double standards or critiques of her IMO come down to the unconscience racism that permeates both the United States and the UK.

As a black/biracial woman myself, it is monumental that a woman of color will be joining the BRF, the most visible representation of the UK to the world and one of the most prominent family's in the world. Race is a big deal; the US is arguably built on a racial democracy and the UK is still haunted by its colonial past and racial history as well. Meghan will face a triple slam of being foreign, a person of color and an older outspoken woman in a time when nationalism and anti-foreign/anti-POC sentiment is high in the West.

To ignore this aspect of her relationship and position, if she were to be married into the BRF, does a disservice to her own experiences and the experiences of people of color overall. We have come a long way, but there is still massive progress to be made.

Well summed up, Zaira. The weekend was all frivolity and I am always one to go with the flow but I was feeling something was 'off' to have such a quick announcement. Why? Because Meghan needs to fully scope out the scale of what she is taking on. It's not insignificant. I have no doubt in my mind that the BRF will welcome her and support her. It's beyond that. It's the public.

On YouTube one can view videos that show the television advertisement that prompted Meghan's first foray into activism as child (regarding how the woman was portrayed in the soap commercial). I look at that commercial and am aware she will be entering a position in which she will have to 'shut her mouth' and 'keep her head down'. I ask myself: how can this be good for such an intelligent, well-educated, forward-thinking woman?

It remains a conundrum for me.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

I am still on the, he hasn't proposed yet. I have never bought in to the he proposed in Africa and they have been hiding it for months thing. I could be wrong and about to be proven wrong on Tuesday by all reports, who knows.

I just always had the feeling they weren't just waiting until she was in the UK to make the announcement. But waiting till she was there, to take the next step. I don't see them proposing and living apart, not telling everyone. I still think a romantic proposal on a vacation on the anniversary of their first.

Well I will eat my words if wrong and we get announcement on Tuesday.

YES! I want them to go back to Norway under the Northern Lights after Christmas and I want him to propose!!!! Very romantic!

Ok you royal-handler folks who sneak around reading these boards...pass that along please!!

LaRae

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Cocoasneeze

I agree with you.

I do think they're already engaged, though, and the visa application has been a fiancé one.

There doesn't actually have to have been a proposal yet for a fiancé visa. As there is no legal paperwork to an engagement. It simply requires that they be married within six months. It is quite possible, in my mind likely, they simply have an understanding on a time line. A proposal over the holidays, would still give plenty of time to plan a wedding for end of May. Because if she is there on a fiancé visa, end of May is latest.

[Gretijean]

I’ve had some thoughts after taking a break from the frenzy.

1. Harry would like to have his grandparents there. The wedding will take place in 2018. No ones health is a guarantee but they fortunately have some longevity in their genes.

2. As both have stated, they would like to have a family. Meghan is older and getting closer to what drs call a geriatric pregnancy. The sooner the wedding, the sooner the babies.

3. The wedding will not occur during lent. This is one of the holiest times of the year. I am guessing May or July 2018.

4. I can see the wedding being at Westminster, like W&C, because of the logistics regarding transportation, security, media, etc.

5. There will be differences that show the personalities of H&M. Meghan is not a 19 year old innocent. Prince Harry is not heir to the heir, but he is liked/popular. This will be their wedding.

6. The announcement will take place before Christmas. Partly because of the media pressing for the story. I believe Meghan should have had some time to adjust to all of the changes happening: quitting job, packing up life in Toronto, moving to the UK, adjusting to living with boyfriend/fiancé, etc.

[Princess Larisa]

Originally Posted by Gretijean

Meghan is older and getting closer to what drs call a geriatric pregnancy.

She already is

In the medical world, a geriatric pregnancy is one that occurs anytime a woman is over the age of 35.

[Abbigail]

Originally Posted by Zaira

I just want to wade into the waters here about one thing: no matter the historical construct of race (and it is indeed a social construct) or the fact that we are all "one race", the present reality is that racism impacts the daily realities of people of color in very painful and visceral ways. Meghan, as a biracial black woman, has talked passionately about how racism has impacted her and her family. Her partner, Harry, had to release a statement condemning the racist coverage of Meghan, and comments all over the internet (and some I even heard in person while in the UK recently) show that her race will be an issue for a not insignificant amount of people no matter how much they protest that fact. So much of the "something isn't right about her" or the ridiculous double standards or critiques of her IMO come down to the unconscience racism that permeates both the United States and the UK.

As a black/biracial woman myself, it is monumental that a woman of color will be joining the BRF, the most visible representation of the UK to the world and one of the most prominent family's in the world. Race is a big deal; the US is arguably built on a racial democracy and the UK is still haunted by its colonial past and racial history as well. Meghan will face a triple slam of being foreign, a person of color and an older outspoken woman in a time when nationalism and anti-foreign/anti-POC sentiment is high in the West.

To ignore this aspect of her relationship and position, if she were to be married into the BRF, does a disservice to her own experiences and the experiences of people of color overall. We have come a long way, but there is still massive progress to be made. I see Meghan possibly joining The Firm as a positive move, the BRF representing the burgeoning diversity of the nation at long last.

Now, all of this engagement speculation is so all over the place, its dizzying. I personally think they are already engaged, but are just getting some ducks in order. I do not for one second believe Tominey's reporting about an engagement postponement. Why would KP do that? It only lengthens the media frenzy, plus it never made sense to announce it on Thanksgiving given Meghan's nation of origin and also the fact that the BRF still thrives on foreign media coverage as much as the UK and the US is a massive media market so why announce on a day that most outlets would be slow to respond?? Further, there is no way they would have everything lined up to go and then waste broadcaster time and money by pulling it at the last minute.

I hope Meghan is getting the proper time she needs to settle in a take a very deep breath. I expect that this past year has been quite the experience for her. Even though she is an actress, she never had this much scrutiny and attention and it would be discombobulating for anyone! I hope Harry is as a supportive a partner as I perceive him to be!

Well said! Couldn't agree more with every word.

I will add that I don't think we've talked much about Meghan (apparently) wasting no time moving to London. I know there was some talk of her waiting until after the holidays but that doesn't seem to be the case. And to me, that further supports the idea that they're already engaged. I'm just not seeing any reason they'd wait, not at this point.

[Alliec76]

Originally Posted by Zaira

I just want to wade into the waters here about one thing: no matter the historical construct of race (and it is indeed a social construct) or the fact that we are all "one race", the present reality is that racism impacts the daily realities of people of color in very painful and visceral ways. Meghan, as a biracial black woman, has talked passionately about how racism has impacted her and her family. Her partner, Harry, had to release a statement condemning the racist coverage of Meghan, and comments all over the internet (and some I even heard in person while in the UK recently) show that her race will be an issue for a not insignificant amount of people no matter how much they protest that fact. So much of the "something isn't right about her" or the ridiculous double standards or critiques of her IMO come down to the unconscience racism that permeates both the United States and the UK.

As a black/biracial woman myself, it is monumental that a woman of color will be joining the BRF, the most visible representation of the UK to the world and one of the most prominent family's in the world. Race is a big deal; the US is arguably built on a racial democracy and the UK is still haunted by its colonial past and racial history as well. Meghan will face a triple slam of being foreign, a person of color and an older outspoken woman in a time when nationalism and anti-foreign/anti-POC sentiment is high in the West.

To ignore this aspect of her relationship and position, if she were to be married into the BRF, does a disservice to her own experiences and the experiences of people of color overall. We have come a long way, but there is still massive progress to be made. I see Meghan possibly joining The Firm as a positive move, the BRF representing the burgeoning diversity of the nation at long last.

Now, all of this engagement speculation is so all over the place, its dizzying. I personally think they are already engaged, but are just getting some ducks in order. I do not for one second believe Tominey's reporting about an engagement postponement. Why would KP do that? It only lengthens the media frenzy, plus it never made sense to announce it on Thanksgiving given Meghan's nation of origin and also the fact that the BRF still thrives on foreign media coverage as much as the UK and the US is a massive media market so why announce on a day that most outlets would be slow to respond?? Further, there is no way they would have everything lined up to go and then waste broadcaster time and money by pulling it at the last minute.

I hope Meghan is getting the proper time she needs to settle in a take a very deep breath. I expect that this past year has been quite the experience for her. Even though she is an actress, she never had this much scrutiny and attention and it would be discombobulating for anyone! I hope Harry is as a supportive a partner as I perceive him to be!

Thank you. Thank you for saying what I've been feeling, but hadn't really been able to express. Racism is real. (And it's not all in your face either. A lot of it is much more sly now days. More veiled.) Neither the UK or the US has that great a history on the race front. And we are in perilous times right now. To think that Meghan is not going to bare the brunt of some of that, is naive in my opinion. I've read it and seen it myself online, even the places that are supposed to be more "nice". It is not just the Daily Mail.

Thankfully Harry and his office seemed to recognize what they would be dealing with early on. I give him tremendous credit for that. Honestly, my guess is Harry was more upset about it than Meghan was, because when you are a person of color, somethings, you just get used to. I know not much shocks me know days. Anyway, it is great that she has a partner that is willing to stand up for her.

Count me in the crew who think they are already engaged, but I do not think it happened in Africa. That's just my hunch. When will we hear? I'm still leaning new year, but all of December is fair game.

[Nice Nofret]

Thank you for your enlightening messages around beeing biracial; the only thing I don't get is why call her black? she is at best lightly coloured ... I would never identify her as 'black'. Or is this a languaged or cultural thing?

I'm Swiss and German; no one here would call her 'black'. I do have friends which have mixed heritaged, some of them have lived in GB and US; they say, that they do not feel put in a box here in Switzerland, like they felt in GB and US.

I don't know this ongoing conversation about 'colore'. We are talking about where people come from, where they have lived, what they have done and achieved, how they came to live here etc. Isn't that what is interesting about people?

My husband and I are the boring ones in our circle of friends - we live in the country we where born - most of our friends don't - it's most fascination to hear their stories.

No we do not live in a paradise (nearly so) People around here are also judgmental; but its not about 'race'. It's much more about non achievers. It's not about money eather.

[Alliec76]

Originally Posted by Nice Nofret

Thank you for your enlightening messages around beeing biracial; the only thing I don't get is why call her black? she is at best lightly coloured ... I would never identify her as 'black'. Or is this a languaged or cultural thing?

I'm Swiss and German; no one here would call her 'black'. I do have friends which have mixed heritaged, some of them have lived in GB and US; they say, that they do not feel put in a box here in Switzerland, like they felt in GB and US.

I don't know this ongoing conversation about 'colore'. We are talking about where people come from, where they have lived, what they have done and achieved, how they came to live here etc. Isn't that what is interesting about people?

My husband and I are the boring ones in our circle of friends - we live in the country we where born - most of our friends don't - it's most fascination to hear their stories.

No we do not live in a paradise (nearly so) People around here are also judgmental; but its not about 'race'. It's much more about non achievers. It's not about money eather.

We use black and African-American interchangeably in the US. It isn't about skin color, it's ethnicity. The race issue is super complicated in the US, and I don't even want to get into the "one drop rule" etc. This isn't the place for that discussion. So I'll just leave it at that.

[soapstar]

And with the official engagement announcement, this thread is now closed.