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  #3381  
Old 11-15-2017, 02:59 PM
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Not to belabor the point but I think it is an important point to be made regarding how some posters react/receive (what they consider or interpret to be) opposing points of views. Most of us (I assume) come on here to post as a (secret) pleasure. To find oneself wincing before opening a thread because one has (dared to!) insert a pov contrary to a prevailing thread consensus is not worth the wincing or the time it takes to sign on to read the hectoring posts.

There are posters who just cease posting rather than post and receive the hectoring. I am puzzled why so many posters, who I have discovered are older women at the grandmother status, feel that their pov's should trump all dissension. What is going on? What happened to the playfulness of amiable discussion on issues that are really about as fluffy as they come? None of this is as important as some political events occurring in our current world. Just saying.

This may get deleted by a moderator but I really feel this needs to be said (by a poster, and not just by moderator interdiction), especially as so many have ceased posting because of the unpleasantness. Someone has suggested to me that there are royal sites that see far more savage posting behavior, and that is what people are used to. I would suggest that if that is what (some) posters are used to then they have been desensitized to normal, courteous discourse. They have done themselves a disservice in getting so desensitized. JMO. But I do appeal to posters to think about how they receive pov's and how they (possibly) want to see everyone marching in lock-step to the (to them) 'obvious' way of seeing things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
It's tiresome. Makes posting unpleasant. Why bother. I respect that there are many here who are convinced of their views. Okay. But other views should not then be hectored or laid open to 'laughing-out-loud' emojis. What is all that about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I think those of us who have seen this romance move from stage to stage, progressing quietly but becoming very serious, are rather mystified that you appear to feel that it hasn't progressed to that level.
That's fine, Curryong, but (as I stated): I respect that there are many here who are convinced of their views, but other views should not then be hectored or laid open to 'laughing-out-loud' emojis.

Please note that you subscribe to your self a superior stance ('those of us who have seen this romance move from stage to stage') and then posit (or imply) that any pov that doesn't conform to the 'more experienced' poster is spurious. (You make a large assumption regarding a poster's experience with the relationship's trajectory).

Would you agree that that hectoring of opposing pov's should not take place? BRF's members have charities that address bullying, and are lauded by so many here. It is ironic that the subtitles of bullying are not recognized on this site by (some) posters. Blind spot, I think. I actually don't think much of it (unless overtly grotesque) is intentionally mean. Not at all. I think its a blind spot. Because we cannot see the person with the twinkle in their eyes and the love in their tone we can only go by the words/text.

Hence text needs to be carefully considered. JMO.

To your point: you may be mystified but I would suggest you are mystified because you (perhaps) do not closely follow the reasoning. Quite a few have stated that the fact that Meghan and Harry have not had anything but a long-distance relationship, thinking the relationship is 'serious' (in the sense of 'imminent' marriage) is premature. The real test will be day-in-day-out living. It's hard to accept that they are at a point where marriage is a reasonable next step given the history of the relationship.

Maybe a long engagement? Okay. But in this I think the wedding should (for both their sakes) take place in 2019/20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Or again, earlier, on no evidence that I can see, that the couple aren't deeply in love and the relationship might be a fling or affair, nor is as serious as other people think it. Again, I've never been able to see how you could read those implications into it.
Okay, but does that then justify hectoring? Just wondering.

They are clearly in the red-hot blush of lust/love. Yes, I see that (They made sure I saw that, which in itself is curious to my mind). I also see that a great deal of effort is being funneled into making this relationship 'play in Peoria'. It's impressive. I have no doubt in my mind that Harry is determined to have this relationship result in marriage. More power to him. A man 'in love' is a force, and compelling if one is the focus of such. I just hope Meghan is up to the 'full court press' and what lies on the other side of that. Just an opinion, Curryong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suitor View Post
Would be great to see Prince Harry at the wedding. It reinforces the idea that they're equal partners...you travel for my good friend's wedding and I do the same for you. Especially since Meghan missed Serena's baby shower to appear at Harry's polo match.
Exactly so.

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Originally Posted by Suitor View Post
Still, if schedules don't allow it's not an indictment of their relationship.
That was not suggested. But if Harry moves heaven and earth to attend with Meghan that would signal (to me, but I am just one, after all) that there is a serious commitment. I would assume they are engaged (they just have not told the public).
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  #3382  
Old 11-15-2017, 03:29 PM
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By the way, is it 'required' that the engagement be a public announcement for Meghan to be able to live in the UK? Could there be a private engagement that is in place for months before a public announcement is made? Wondering.

It appears that once a public announcement is made the marriage trajectory is set in motion asap. This may not suit the needs of the couple in this instance.
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  #3383  
Old 11-15-2017, 03:35 PM
cepe's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
By the way, is it 'required' that the engagement be a public announcement for Meghan to be able to live in the UK? Could there be a private engagement that is in place for months before a public announcement is made? Wondering.

It appears that once a public announcement is made the marriage trajectory is set in motion asap. This may not suit the needs of the couple in this instance.
It's not a requirement IMO. I think that it is more likely that she comes and stays in the UK and give the relationship more time. By that I mean more time together (rather than the intensity that comes with a long distance relationship). And I don't think there would be an immediate announcement either.

But coming to the UK would obviously be an indication of the seriousness of the relationship.
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  #3384  
Old 11-15-2017, 03:49 PM
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Then there's the problem with the Visa again....


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  #3385  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Then there's the problem with the Visa again....LaRae
Yes, that would be my point. Could the couple indicate that they are engaged ('going steady' ) but there not be a public announcement, since that seems to engage the whole royal behemoth of marriage in short order.
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  #3386  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Yes, that would be my point. Could the couple indicate that they are engaged ('going steady' ) but there not be a public announcement, since that seems to engage the whole royal behemoth of marriage is short order.
My guess is no. There would have to be official paperwork started for a fiancé visa, which is only valid for 6 month anyway, and there is no way this would not get leaked.

She can however stay in the UK as a tourist for a few months, 3 if I’m not mistaken.
  #3387  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Larisa View Post
My guess is no. There would have to be official paperwork started for a fiancé visa, which is only valid for 6 month anyway, and there is no way this would not get leaked.

She can however stay in the UK as a tourist for a few months, 3 if I’m not mistaken.
So there is a possibility of residing in the UK without an official announcement. Can the tourist visa be easily renewed?

I would say that after 3-6 months of day-in-day-out living the couple should know the lay-of-the-land for sure and certain, though without 'something to do' Meghan might get bored, unless she was spending the time 'shopping' for a house/estate (what fun!) and decorating said house/estate, and looking at marriage venues, etc.
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  #3388  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:44 PM
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It sounds like US Vogue has exclusive rights to publish the wedding pics. I'm sure Serena-Alexis will be the focus, but given the A list crowd I imagine we'll get some shots of the wedding party and guests. If Meghan and Harry are there, I don't think we'll need a telephoto lens to tell.

http://www.google.com/amp/s/pagesix....g-wedding/amp/
  #3389  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:49 PM
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As far as making sure that the signs of love were out there for all to see, 'playing in Peoria', being 'curious', Harry long ago stated that he reads what has been said about him. Of course, the Internet is vast and nobody can read everything. Nevertheless I believe he and Meghan know exactly what's been going on and countered it.

I just want to explain about what I've read online since last year. There have been certain sites on Tumblr and elsewhere that have, since last October, made it their business to ferment hatred towards Meghan, make up stories about her and infer things.

Among those things were that this isn't a 'real' relationship, that Meghan got her hooks into Harry and is more or less blackmailing him for PR purposes. That she doesn't love him and is a publicity hound. There have even been suggestions that the couple have a 'business contract'.

That sort of ridiculous abuse which started immediately once news of the Harry/Meghan relationship broke, may well have been part of what Harry referred to in his November statement as coming from 'online trolls'.

These assertions were, in the eyes of these people, given 'legs' because of the privacy the couple were determined on when they visited each other, and the fact that they couldn't see each other that often.

IMO the VF interview and the IG public affection that followed, was to publicly counter the many many people who like Harry but were accessing those sites and believing what these people were putting out.

Therefore, IMO, the couple, having had enough of it, decided to surface and concluded that the IG was the ideal opportunity to show that they are in love, that this is the real deal, we are serious about each other, in order to shut these trolls up.

And make no mistake, as late as just before the IG, posters on another international Royal forum were making assertions that this was not a real romance and that the couple had in fact broken up in December.

I've no doubt whatsoever that was at least some of the motivation behind the couple coming out at the IG.

Harry and Meghan know the power the Internet has.

Harry tried very hard on that occasion, especially at the closing ceremony, to show that Meghan was his woman, that the romance was real and serious, and that he embraced Meghan's racial background by his obvious warm friendship with her mum Doria, seen at the closing ceremony.

It's very sad that he had to do that, but it's proved effective. At least one site peddling hatred of Meghan has gone dormant since the IG and the others have lost a great number of followers. The couple also of course came out into the open to give all their patient followers who wish them well a break!

Also, the love this couple have for each other is patent. It's not stronger on Harry's side than on Meghan's. Meghan wouldn't have shut down the Tig, more or less deserted social media, or made many trips to England to see Harry if she was not as serious about him as he is about her.

I'm still betting on an engagement this year and marriage next summer, and I believe Meghan will go to live in London on a fiancee visa. Any other visa IMO would be too difficult.
  #3390  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Then there's the problem with the Visa again....


LaRae
The Visa and the "what will she do"? A fiancee Visa has a 6 month time table on it and a no working clause. A work Visa requires that you, well, work. The only other option is continuing to come over on a visitors visa as she has been doing (and also, no working). But she'd have to leave and come back every 3 months I believe, and she couldn't really move her stuff.

There are really no perfect scenarios, but the one that protects Meghan best (who after all will be giving up the most) is not moving to the UK full time without an official engagement. Anything else, in my humble opinion, just leaves her at a distinct disadvantage and with no protection, or clearly defined role. I expect Meghan will be spending much more time in the UK, now that Suits is wrapped. But I would not expect any full scale move until there is an announcement of an engagement. And I'm honestly not seeing that until December or January. Anyway that's just my take.
  #3391  
Old 11-15-2017, 05:24 PM
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I'm leaning more toward Jan but of course I'd be happy to see an announcement sooner!

As far as tourist Visa's...I think I read *up to 6 months* seems like that would be a case by case basis IF accurate. Just don't see her moving without the ring..unless privately engaged.


LaRae
  #3392  
Old 11-15-2017, 05:59 PM
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In the papers they say she will be present at Serena Williams wedding.... if he could be with her it would be nice !
  #3393  
Old 11-15-2017, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
So there is a possibility of residing in the UK without an official announcement. Can the tourist visa be easily renewed?

I would say that after 3-6 months of day-in-day-out living the couple should know the lay-of-the-land for sure and certain, though without 'something to do' Meghan might get bored, unless she was spending the time 'shopping' for a house/estate (what fun!) and decorating said house/estate, and looking at marriage venues, etc.
I'm sorry but Meghan is house hunting for her and Harry and then decorating said house while waiting an arbitrary amount of time to get to know Harry better to see if she wants to marry him? I don't understand this.
  #3394  
Old 11-15-2017, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
So there is a possibility of residing in the UK without an official announcement. Can the tourist visa be easily renewed?

I would say that after 3-6 months of day-in-day-out living the couple should know the lay-of-the-land for sure and certain, though without 'something to do' Meghan might get bored, unless she was spending the time 'shopping' for a house/estate (what fun!) and decorating said house/estate, and looking at marriage venues, etc.
There is no tourist visa. For a US citizen, tourists don't need a visa.

The time limit for US tourists is actually 6 months not 3 months. And no, she would be required to prove she planned to leave in 6 months. Things like a return ticket, a job, a home, something in the US. She would not be permitted to move her things to the UK, though she could bring her dogs.

She would be required to leave after 6 months. The amount of time between leaving and coming back is up to border security. But if border security sees her travel and has reason she is returning too often for long term stays, she can face a long term ban on entering the country.

Quote:
Your visa may be cancelled and you may get a long-term ban on visiting if your travel history shows you’re repeatedly living in the UK for extended periods.
She would likely have to leave for about two to three months, from what most sites recommend, to not risk facing that ban. Now if she was say coming and going for work volunteering or home, that 6 months may be extended, as long as her actual weeks in the UK were no more then 6 months.

so basically

1. tourist visa
a. stay for six months and leave for two months
b. come and go, to extend the six months

2. fiancé visa: no engagement is actually required. Just have to actually be married in six months. If she comes December, would mean she would have to marry by June.

3. Work or volunteer visa: have to find a job or charity agency willing to hire her and sponsor her for a visa. But then she would face talk about landing a position based souly on who she was dating.
  #3395  
Old 11-15-2017, 06:15 PM
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Yes, here's hoping, rominet09. However the wedding may well be tomorrow (if rumours on social media are correct guests are already gathered) and if it is then it would be one almighty rush to get there. Meghan might well have a few extra things to do for Suits in Toronto even if filming has already finished and Harry had an engagement in London only a few hours ago.
  #3396  
Old 11-15-2017, 06:49 PM
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I'm not saying Serena and Pippa are on the same level; I'm talking about treatment by the press. If Harry and Meghan announce before Serena's wedding - or worse the day of the wedding therefore they can't come - who would get the lion's share of the press coverage?
  #3397  
Old 11-15-2017, 06:53 PM
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With all this talk of Visas, etc. I thought to myself that the immigration law in the UK is pretty old-fashioned and rigid. Many have advocated a period of "living together" for Harry and Meghan and it seems that is a legal impossibility. Six months and you are married or six months and you leave the country. A de facto relationship is not recognised as too are test drives.

IMO a period of shacking up together will prove nothing to either of them because, as Harry has said, it's all about finding a woman willing to accept him and his baggage. As a girlfriend or live-in lover, she would merely get prurient paparazzi sliming around but she would not be beside him at a formal engagement actually experiencing or living "his baggage".

An engagement ring takes care of that. And while an engagement usually ends in a marriage it is neither outrageous nor uncommon should one or the other find the notion of such a life untenable and terminates the engagement.
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  #3398  
Old 11-15-2017, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
I'm not saying Serena and Pippa are on the same level; I'm talking about treatment by the press. If Harry and Meghan announce before Serena's wedding - or worse the day of the wedding therefore they can't come - who would get the lion's share of the press coverage?
Serena's wedding is said to be tomorrow. I don't really expect a H&M engagement announcement tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post

IMO a period of shacking up together will prove nothing to either of them because, as Harry has said, it's all about finding a woman willing to accept him and his baggage. As a girlfriend or live-in lover, she would merely get prurient paparazzi sliming around but she would not be beside him at a formal engagement actually experiencing or living "his baggage".
This is exactly what I think. And with the Internet, Skype, smart phones, etc communication has advanced from the days of long distance courting by snail mail. They have been able to communicate while apart.
  #3399  
Old 11-15-2017, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
There is no tourist visa. For a US citizen, tourists don't need a visa.

The time limit for US tourists is actually 6 months not 3 months. And no, she would be required to prove she planned to leave in 6 months. Things like a return ticket, a job, a home, something in the US. She would not be permitted to move her things to the UK, though she could bring her dogs.

She would be required to leave after 6 months. The amount of time between leaving and coming back is up to border security. But if border security sees her travel and has reason she is returning too often for long term stays, she can face a long term ban on entering the country.



She would likely have to leave for about two to three months, from what most sites recommend, to not risk facing that ban. Now if she was say coming and going for work volunteering or home, that 6 months may be extended, as long as her actual weeks in the UK were no more then 6 months.

so basically

1. tourist visa
a. stay for six months and leave for two months
b. come and go, to extend the six months

2. fiancé visa: no engagement is actually required. Just have to actually be married in six months. If she comes December, would mean she would have to marry by June.

3. Work or volunteer visa: have to find a job or charity agency willing to hire her and sponsor her for a visa. But then she would face talk about landing a position based souly on who she was dating.
Good info. I didn't know that about the tourist Visa. Based on the information you provided I'd say that option would be completely out, as it would cause more trouble than it's worth. I'm not sure if she even still has her place in LA. She couldn't just stay in Toronto indefinitely if she is no longer on Suits, because she's in Canada on a work visa. I guess she could say she was living with her mom for the US address, but that would just look shady.

So there are really only 2 viable options. She comes to the UK on a fiancee visa, in which case they'd need to get the timing right to meet the 6 month deadline. Or she comes on a work visa, which, as already explained, has its own share of problems. I think it's a shame that any job she'd possibly get, mostly likely in the charity world, would be so scrutinized, and chalked up to special treatment, because I think she'd probably be more than qualified to work in that field on her own merits. But the press and the public would never see it that way, so she's best to steer clear of that. I know some people don't like it, but logically, I'm just not sure she has any other options.
  #3400  
Old 11-15-2017, 09:57 PM
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Citizens of some countries require a tourist visa to visit the U.K..
Citizens of the U.S. do not need a visa of any sort to visit the U.K.. They can stay for 6 months. So Meghan, just like any other US citizen, can grab her passport, hop on a plane to London and stay there 6 months, no further paperwork required.
Let's say 3 months into her visit she becomes engaged, she can then presumably apply for a fiancé visa which requires her to marry a citizen of the U.K. w/in 6 months of getting that visa.
Thus H&M have 12 months from her arrival in the U.K. to marry.
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