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  #161  
Old 10-03-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaira View Post
I think the counter to that, though, is that it gave the public an emotional connection to the issue. I've seen a LOT of people applauding Harry for sticking up for his wife with that statement.

I think we need to always be aware that there are those of us in the royal watcher bubble who see things in a certain way because we are so entrenched in this understanding, but that doesn't equal what may work with the general public. A lot of people feel the media in the UK, specifically, the tabloid press, have gotten out of control over all. And there is polling and anecdotal evidence to show that many in the general public in the UK felt Meghan's treatment by the press was wrong and unfair.

Harry's statement, timing being ill-advised as I think it may have been, put a very human face on the issue that a lot of people can connect with and I believe did. I perhaps would have changed some wording and such, but people also respect and respond to authentic emotion more too.

The press, of course, will run with their belief that the statement was "not the done thing" but well they have a clear agenda too.
Those are all excellent points, and I suspect you are correct. Personally, I'm not convinced about the value of invoking the public's emotional response, since the public tends to be pretty fickle overall, and Harry's last letter at the beginning of their relationship had exactly zero positive effect on tabloid coverage, but hope springs eternal, I guess. Public opinion is unlikely to have any effect at all on the court case, which will hopefully be judged on its merits.

While Harry's letter may have engaged some public sympathy, it also invited some commenters to go digging around in his psyche in a way that I also question the value of, and this is in reputable publications. I'm not sure that long term that's a good thing, either.
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  #162  
Old 10-03-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ista View Post
While Harry's letter may have engaged some public sympathy, it also invited some commenters to go digging around in his psyche in a way that I also question the value of, and this is in reputable publications. I'm not sure that long term that's a good thing, either.
I personally find it rather disturbing that some of the media are throwing out there that they question Harry's mental state because he wants to protect his family. It just proves his point all the more. They have their own agenda in this and it is to protect their bottom line. Insinuating that Harry might be "mentally fragile" is the angle they going. I also notice that almost all the shows and papers discussing this lays all the blame on Meghan. "She is manipulating him" literally came out someone's mouth. It is a bit rich when they are trying to deny they are bullying this family. Read the room.

Thomas Markle didn't break the law by showing MoS the letter. They made sure they say that they did not pay for the letter at the time. So Thomas made no profit from it in that regard. The mistake with them was publishing the letter. I don't think MoS even think they will win but dragging it out is beneficial in the short term for them. Who knows what it will mean for all involved in the long term.
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  #163  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:04 PM
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Well, Harry had to take a extremely serious tone in his statement. The outside forces think they can kick Meghan around for months on end and get away with it. Harry stepped in and made very clear...that ainít gonna happen. He wonít let it happen. They didnít get the point in the first statement, so it was a must for him to release another statement and it was done with the lawsuit. So those forces noses are out of joint because Harry knocked them that way.

Harry is just one step away from literally cussing a lot of folks out. Thatíll be in the third statement, if this craziness continues. Iím just giving everyone on the forums a heads up before it happens.
I think everyone got the point, but it's also a letter with lots of emotion, but no teeth. The current lawsuit is not about the press coverage of Meghan, it's about the press misuse of a specific letter to which she owns the copyright. The Sussexes winning that lawsuit does nothing except warn tabloids not to publish any other letters. Harry is unhappy with coverage of his family (understandably) so........what next? He's going to get angry? He's going to publish even more emotional and angry letters? What? If he had given specifics about what he was going to do, or legal recourses he might seek, then I can see media shaking in their boots. Right now it mostly boils down to he doesn't like the coverage, and there will be a lawsuit about a copyright violation. They are two totally different issues, but they are being conflated as though winning the copyright infringement case will magically make all the other stuff go away.
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  #164  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:17 PM
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I personally find it rather disturbing that some of the media are throwing out there that they question Harry's mental state because he wants to protect his family. It just proves his point all the more. They have their own agenda in this and it is to protect their bottom line. Insinuating that Harry might be "mentally fragile" is the angle they going. I also notice that almost all the shows and papers discussing this lays all the blame on Meghan. "She is manipulating him" literally came out someone's mouth. It is a bit rich when they are trying to deny they are bullying this family. Read the room.

Thomas Markle didn't break the law by showing MoS the letter. They made sure they say that they did not pay for the letter at the time. So Thomas made no profit from it in that regard. The mistake with them was publishing the letter. I don't think MoS even think they will win but dragging it out is beneficial in the short term for them. Who knows what it will mean for all involved in the long term.
I agree. The comments about the letter being "a rant" or "outburst" and somehow reflective of a mentally fragile man are disgusting and clear gaslighting.

The statement was strong, but it was hardly a rant. Harry made very clear, concise points. He is showing IMO strength by standing up for his wife and family after taking months (years now) of abuse and trying all other avenues for redress.

And while the tabloid press, especially the DM and Sun, lead a lot of the smears, the Times and Telegraph have done their fair bit. It has been disturbing to see how the Times coverage has changed over the past few years to a much more conservative and nativist tone.

Harry and Meghan tried to settle this quietly with the MoS, that didn't work. So now they are taking the next step.
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  #165  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
I don't want to shift gears here in the thread, but in my humble opinion, if it were not for the Sussexes, the media would still stick to the last Prince Andrew story... - which all of a sudden seems to be largely gone.

The poor Sussexes, the engagement of Princess Beatrice... - all this comes at a pleasant time. Lucky Prince Andrew!
The public's interest (for at least the time being) has waned in the Prince Andrew story. Nothing new was happening and they got bored, so the media is moving in to other things. It almost always happens.

I do not think there is anything nefarious about the timing, which seems to me to be the implication.

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Originally Posted by Eli123 View Post
Lawsuits are usually announced by St. James's Palace.
St. James is no longer William's or Harry's office and would not be involved in private legal actions. They only announced William & Catherine's lawsuit against the French magazine because William & Catherine's offices were still there at the time.

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Originally Posted by rob2008 View Post
I hope Harry has carefully assessed the likelehood of winning and the risks involved if not successful. Also there might be risks about appearing in court - this might incude Thomas Markle?
Doubtful, Tom Markle doesn't need to be involved--there isn't a question of where the MoS got the letter or if it was legitimate. The whole lawsuit is about the use of it by the MoS.

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Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I think everyone got the point, but it's also a letter with lots of emotion, but no teeth. The current lawsuit is not about the press coverage of Meghan, it's about the press misuse of a specific letter to which she owns the copyright. The Sussexes winning that lawsuit does nothing except warn tabloids not to publish any other letters. Harry is unhappy with coverage of his family (understandably) so........what next? He's going to get angry? He's going to publish even more emotional and angry letters? What? If he had given specifics about what he was going to do, or legal recourses he might seek, then I can see media shaking in their boots. Right now it mostly boils down to he doesn't like the coverage, and there will be a lawsuit about a copyright violation. They are two totally different issues, but they are being conflated as though winning the copyright infringement case will magically make all the other stuff go away.
Bold by me--exactly! Although Harry's frustration is tenuously related to the letter printed by the MoS, it is only one tiny element and the Sussexes winning won't stop other stories.
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  #166  
Old 10-04-2019, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I think everyone got the point, but it's also a letter with lots of emotion, but no teeth. The current lawsuit is not about the press coverage of Meghan, it's about the press misuse of a specific letter to which she owns the copyright. The Sussexes winning that lawsuit does nothing except warn tabloids not to publish any other letters. Harry is unhappy with coverage of his family (understandably) so........what next? He's going to get angry? He's going to publish even more emotional and angry letters? What? If he had given specifics about what he was going to do, or legal recourses he might seek, then I can see media shaking in their boots. Right now it mostly boils down to he doesn't like the coverage, and there will be a lawsuit about a copyright violation. They are two totally different issues, but they are being conflated as though winning the copyright infringement case will magically make all the other stuff go away.
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Bold by me--exactly! Although Harry's frustration is tenuously related to the letter printed by the MoS, it is only one tiny element and the Sussexes winning won't stop other stories.
I could not agree more. In my mind, there are two clear issues:

> The lawsuit pertaining to the publishing of Meghan's letter to her father, and whether it may have been edited to alter the meaning of some of the content.

> The statement issued by Harry. I appreciate Harry's frustration at the unrelenting nature of the press commentary Meghan and he have faced for the last year or so, and his clear desire to act to stem it. Was that statement really the best way to achieve his objective? And was reference to Diana really necessary? And the timing of the letter, given the positive coverage they had received for their work in Africa?

I really do think this statement was yet another error of judgement on Harry's part, as with several others that he, IMO, has made in the last year. All of which begs the obvious question: is he badly advised, or is he unwilling to listen to advice he may receive?

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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The outside forces think they can kick Meghan around for months on end and get away with it. Harry stepped in and made very clear...that ainít gonna happen. He wonít let it happen. They didnít get the point in the first statement, so it was a must for him to release another statement and it was done with the lawsuit.
But how is that statement going to help his cause? How will Harry "wonít let it happen"?

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Harry is just one step away from literally cussing a lot of folks out.
Not sure I understand what you mean by this. Please elucidate.
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  #167  
Old 10-04-2019, 09:02 AM
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Still my reflection about the timing of Harry's statement and where he is coming from

Beginning of September, we have the Vogue issue which Meghan was editor of.
The issues she focused on then women empowerment, education, the environment and conservation, climate change, and mental health among other things. What was the reaction of the press pack. She is "woke" (i put is word in quotation mark as it is used in a derogatory manner to dismiss a speaker) too political, yada yada yada.

Fast forward 2 weeks, SA tour, topic she covered. Oh surprise women empowerment, education, the environment and conservation, climate change, and mental health. Basically the same issues, but now the press pack praises her, and as if by magic the coverage is positive and the tour is a success. I am having trouble understanding how press pack can justify these two positions and reconciled them. This is an example of the double standard and hypocrisy Harry is talking about his statement. Like he said, she is the same woman
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  #168  
Old 10-04-2019, 09:31 AM
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I think you hit the double standard nail smack on the head. We don't know the reasons why they'd pull a flip flop act. Perks of going on a tour somewhere in the world over writing in a dog eat dog world to garner clicks? We'll most likely never know but the more that old double standard becomes apparent, the worse it looks. Its not criminal though to treat people in one's own self interest.

Will this legal action really have any impact even if they win? To be honest, I seriously doubt it other than an anti-bullying organization will have more funds to work with. Is taking a page from Harry and Meghan's life to use as a prime example of what legal steps can be taken to protect one's own intellectual property of any benefit? Yes. Is it a prime example of using their own experiences to get the conversation going more on bullying and tells the global world that even royals in high profile lives and that are seen as having "perks" up the wazoo can become victims of bullying just as anyone else can? Are they also showing that to stoop to a bully's level isn't how to resolve a matter but when and where one can, seek out help such as Harry and Meghan finding something tangible to use to fight back in a court of law? You betcha!!

This is all taking lemons being thrown at them and making lemonade and drawing people to see just what can be done with lemons. Perhaps this is even Harry and Meghan's end game in this whole thing. To turn adversity into something positive that will work for change.

Now I think I want a tall, iced glass of lemonade.


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  #169  
Old 10-04-2019, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by alvinking View Post
Still my reflection about the timing of Harry's statement and where he is coming from

Beginning of September, we have the Vogue issue which Meghan was editor of.
The issues she focused on then women empowerment, education, the environment and conservation, climate change, and mental health among other things. What was the reaction of the press pack. She is "woke" (i put is word in quotation mark as it is used in a derogatory manner to dismiss a speaker) too political, yada yada yada.

Fast forward 2 weeks, SA tour, topic she covered. Oh surprise women empowerment, education, the environment and conservation, climate change, and mental health. Basically the same issues, but now the press pack praises her, and as if by magic the coverage is positive and the tour is a success. I am having trouble understanding how press pack can justify these two positions and reconciled them. This is an example of the double standard and hypocrisy Harry is talking about his statement. Like he said, she is the same woman
Yup, your comment is a great example on what Harry highlighted in his official statement.
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  #170  
Old 10-04-2019, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by alvinking View Post
Still my reflection about the timing of Harry's statement and where he is coming from

Beginning of September, we have the Vogue issue which Meghan was editor of.
The issues she focused on then women empowerment, education, the environment and conservation, climate change, and mental health among other things. What was the reaction of the press pack. She is "woke" (i put is word in quotation mark as it is used in a derogatory manner to dismiss a speaker) too political, yada yada yada.

Fast forward 2 weeks, SA tour, topic she covered. Oh surprise women empowerment, education, the environment and conservation, climate change, and mental health. Basically the same issues, but now the press pack praises her, and as if by magic the coverage is positive and the tour is a success. I am having trouble understanding how press pack can justify these two positions and reconciled them. This is an example of the double standard and hypocrisy Harry is talking about his statement. Like he said, she is the same woman
All of this. I would also add a few days ago we saw many of these same media outlets writing about how amazing the Sussex team has been. They were *finally* taking the advice and doing the *right* thing aka letting them see their baby and granting a little access via interviews.

It is almost comical that now they are saying this very same team they praised all of three days ago no longer deserve the praise they gave them? So yeah your post is spot on. Meghan has literally did nothing different except in their mind they thought they *won* only to be blindsided.

I agree with most that this lawsuit won't change anything about how the press covers people. These are separate issues though connected in a way. I don't even think Harry expected that when he wrote that letter. It was just to highlight how awful the media typically is and when we are still very fresh with how they treated Ben Stokes and Garth Thomas it will resonate. The Sussexes did what they felt was right and I don't fault them with that.
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  #171  
Old 10-04-2019, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by alvinking View Post
Still my reflection about the timing of Harry's statement and where he is coming from

Beginning of September, we have the Vogue issue which Meghan was editor of.
The issues she focused on then women empowerment, education, the environment and conservation, climate change, and mental health among other things. What was the reaction of the press pack. She is "woke" (i put is word in quotation mark as it is used in a derogatory manner to dismiss a speaker) too political, yada yada yada.

Fast forward 2 weeks, SA tour, topic she covered. Oh surprise women empowerment, education, the environment and conservation, climate change, and mental health. Basically the same issues, but now the press pack praises her, and as if by magic the coverage is positive and the tour is a success. I am having trouble understanding how press pack can justify these two positions and reconciled them. This is an example of the double standard and hypocrisy Harry is talking about his statement. Like he said, she is the same woman
The only thing that comes to my mind is while in the UK the press pack feel they can control the narrative more and pretty much say/do whatever they want and most won't question them. However, on the tour there were global and host journalists in the mix as well so they didn't have as much power/control without being challenged.
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  #172  
Old 10-04-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Zaira View Post
And while the tabloid press, especially the DM and Sun, lead a lot of the smears, the Times and Telegraph have done their fair bit. It has been disturbing to see how the Times coverage has changed over the past few years to a much more conservative and nativist tone.

I fully agree. I used to read the MailOnline (mostly to see pics) and the Telegraph and Times for information, but now I only look at pics on MailOnline and read the Guardian! Because while you can be sure that the Guardian reviews events from a republican angle, they at least try to report the truth and are very often supportiveo Meghan & Harry's endeavours.
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  #173  
Old 10-04-2019, 10:29 AM
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I fully agree. I used to read the MailOnline (mostly to see pics) and the Telegraph and Times for information, but now I only look at pics on MailOnline and read the Guardian! Because while you can be sure that the Guardian reviews events from a republican angle, they at least try to report the truth and are very often supportiveo Meghan & Harry's endeavours.
I believe its all a part of an ever expanding global society that has perhaps created more and more "yellow" journalism. To compare this issue in my own life, growing up in the 50s and 60s, I basically had my choice of 3 or 4 TV channels to watch and news broadcasts were at 11pm for a 1/2 hour show. Now, not only do I have a satellite feed with over 200 channels to choose from, there's also streaming from Hulu, Netflix, Amazon Prime and probably a lot more vying for me to pay attention to their programming. News channels on TV and streaming "print" editions are 24/7 and have the time and the ways and means to promote their own "agenda" with the aim of drawing you into them like flies to honey.

I'll be totally honest here and sometimes I turn it all off and find me a good book to read. I feel that its not just being "for" something or "against" something that is the main focus. The main focus these days is getting *us* to pay attention to them by tuning in or responding to click bait.

Its a dog eat dog world and we're wearing Milk Bone underwear.
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  #174  
Old 10-04-2019, 10:48 AM
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The older royals (Charles, Phillip, Edward) seem to have learned the art of publicly supporting causes such as conservation and the environment without stepping on political mines (most of the time).

Maybe if the Sussexes framed their causes exclusively in the context of the Commonwealth---which sounds like it's their desired mission?---for a while that would help. Women's empowerment, the environment, conservation, mental health, human rights, all come into play. I'm no pr person but it seems like their efforts in the Commonwealth sector have been very well received.

Mods...I know I've strayed from the lawsuit topic a bit here but the press has and should maintain their right to be critical of everyone in public life or positions of power. Critical in the editorial pages and columns, that is. The public needs accurate reporting above all else. News coverage pretty much worldwide has blurred the lines between these two things so I'm interested to see how this plays out in the UK.
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  #175  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post

I really do think this statement was yet another error of judgement on Harry's part, as with several others that he, IMO, has made in the last year. All of which begs the obvious question: is he badly advised, or is he unwilling to listen to advice he may receive?

@Mueriel, You nailed it for me! They have been several huge errors in judgement in the past year including this letter & why bring Princess Diana into this? With so many errors in judgment - I wonder the same thing: is he receiving the right counsel or does he ignore his advisers?
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  #176  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:18 AM
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@Mueriel, You nailed it for me! They have been several huge errors in judgement in the past year including this letter & why bring Princess Diana into this? With so many errors in judgment - I wonder the same thing: is he receiving the right counsel or does he ignore his advisers?
Both brothers have reflected on the horrible treatment of their mother within their efforts to make sure their wives and family aren’t treated in the same manner. That’s their right to bring their mother into situations like this. She’s their mother.

Harry isn’t ignoring his advisors. That the outside forces twisted narrative that some people are buying.

I’m taken aback on how folks are offended by Harry standing up to the media over the completely unacceptable treatment of his wife. What they want him to do? stay silent and just let it happen for the sake of not getting on the bad side of the press? Allow the MoS to just do what they want with his wife’s private letter? I mean, really? What do people want from this couple?
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  #177  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:31 AM
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Iím taken aback on how folks are offended by Harry standing up to the media over the completely unacceptable treatment of his wife. What they want him to do? stay silent and just let it happen for the sake of not getting on the bad side of the press? Allow the MoS to just do what they want with his wifeís private letter? I mean, really? What do people want from this couple?

There are plenty of people accusing him of being a spineless fool, being under his wifeís thumb, etc. This would fit the narrative for them. No matter what choice he makes people will use it against him.
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  #178  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Both brothers have reflected on the horrible treatment of their mother within their efforts to make sure their wives and family arenít treated in the same manner. Thatís their right to bring their mother into situations like this. Sheís their mother.

Harry isnít ignoring his advisors. That the outside forces twisted narrative that some people are buying.

Iím taken aback on how folks are offended by Harry standing up to the media over the completely unacceptable treatment of his wife. What they want him to do? stay silent and just let it happen for the sake of not getting on the bad side of the press? Allow the MoS to just do what they want with his wifeís private letter? I mean, really? What do people want from this couple?
Thank you! Harry's first statement when they were dating should have been enough. But many in the media continued the attacks...They didn't stop,maybe a little more subtle but just as bad. We are not privy to the details of threats she/they have received. Harry is well within his rights to say what he said (these are real people after all, they may be royal but they are still people). Again there comes a time when never complain never explain just doesn't cut it. Exactly how much are they supposed to take and stay silent?
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  #179  
Old 10-04-2019, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tausi View Post
@Mueriel, You nailed it for me! They have been several huge errors in judgement in the past year including this letter & why bring Princess Diana into this? With so many errors in judgment - I wonder the same thing: is he receiving the right counsel or does he ignore his advisers?
I am not suggesting that the lawsuit not be pursued though I do have reservations about that as well, especially as Thomas Markle is likely to be complicit in handing the letter to the press.

My point is that the statement from Harry achieves precious little other than making clear that Harry is very distraught at the treatment of Meghan by the Press, and that he is effectively at war with the press at large. IMO, this is counter-productive because:

> You cannot club the Press as one collective group; there are a multitude of journalists and organisations, each with slightly different motivations. Surely some will not be as bad as the others!

> As a member of the BRF you really ought to use the Press to highlight some of the causes you support, rather than become the story yourself, which, in this case, Harry has become.

> Perhaps an old fashioned view, but but I think having a loud, emotional rant never solves anything once you are over five years old. A rationale, focused argument of when and where they have been wronged would have been preferred, if that was indeed the route they wanted to go down.
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  #180  
Old 10-04-2019, 12:17 PM
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I think Prince Harry's frustration is also likely with the system itself being ineffective. And inaccurate headlines get all this buzz while retractions get very little attention. In the last two years alone, they've won legal battles and apologies from the following media just off the top of my head, and some of them had to apologies for multiple stories:

-The Times
-The Telegraph
-The Mirror
-The Sun
-Mail Online
-Daily Mail
-Splash
-BBC

And that's not including those that repeated the story after the original publication reported it. And I do notice the tabloid media repeating each other's reporting within a day or the original story without fail. That's pretty wide range of British media that's all getting things wrong. And frankly, at this point, shows a systematic issue.

There was another story that ran apology after IPSO ruling earlier this week months after original publication. IPSO ruled that a front page headline that was wrong and purposely misleading only needs a second page apology, which most people who saw the original headline don't see. What is their incentive to behave responsibly in the future if a sensationalize headline leads to nothing more than an apology in the fine print that most don't read?

It also seems that it's not just one legal battle after another, but rather multiple battles against multiple stories at the same time at this point. Which makes me very sad for both the Sussexes, who have constant false information being reported about them, and the credibility of the media.
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