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  #1241  
Old 07-02-2020, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The way I see it Harry was having trouble coming into terms with his "new status" in the Family after William got married (on top of his previous issues from his troubled childhood and teenage years). Then Meghan came along (after Harry had already been rejected by other women who opted out of a possible royal life) and, instead of providing him with much needed stability (as many posters here expected) , she actually made things worse causing further strains with the Cambridges and perhaps even the PoW. Harry and Meghan plotted their exit then and didn't get the response they expected from the RF, the British government and the Canadians, and were not as succesful as they believed they would be in lauching their "brand", which, as of now, hasn't really taken off. That made them even more frustated and more likely to react in anger.
Do you mean they plotted their exit back during the first year or so of marriage? That there was tension with the Cambridges and perhaps with royal life as a whole going right back over teh past 2 years...
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  #1242  
Old 07-02-2020, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Now, correct me if I'm wrong but all this lawsuit over the copyright infringement came about just at the time things were heating up for Harry and Meghan and, at that time, they also decided to take a six week "break" and retreated to Canada for said break. At that time, they most likely were hatching their plan to go forward with the half and half measures they first presented. We all know what happened the following January.

This is just my opinion but I believe they would have been wiser to just forge ahead with their plans and let the cards fall where they may and scrap any lawsuits they were thinking of. If the plan was to forge a new life, new way of doing things and change things up completely, having these lawsuits over their heads and the convoluted mess its created, is totally detrimental to going forward. Its constantly keeping every little, ugly tidbit about "wrongs" and "biases" and "mistreatment" alive and well and some would say that now, its even growing bigger and badder and flashing neon lights on a whole lot of trivial things that have grown into mountains of wrongs.

How can one successfully and with conviction head into a bright future when they're dragging all the baggage that besieged them over the past three years with them? I think it may have been wiser to just go for the "new life" angle, make a clean break and forge ahead. No matter how adamant Meghan may feel that she has a good case in court, this lawsuit is amplifying those wrongs and instead of being vindicated, the couple are now exposed to everything and anything being served up all over again with special sauce to make it more palatable to the public to consume. Its not doing them any favors at all.

This lawsuit is just adding spices and gusto to something that cannot be changed. What happened, happened. To keep it alive and served up fresh and new with each report the press can latch onto, in a way, Meghan is fanning the flames for the exact same treatment that she thought going to court would put a stop to.

Sometimes people are their own worse enemies.
This. But also they could have just stuck to what the lawsuit is about and not try to tag on everything but the kitchen sink.
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  #1243  
Old 07-02-2020, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The way I see it Harry was having trouble coming into terms with his "new status" in the Family after William got married (on top of his previous issues from his troubled childhood and teenage years). Then Meghan came along (after Harry had already been rejected by other women who opted out of a possible royal life) and, instead of providing him with much needed stability (as many posters here expected) , she actually made things worse causing further strains with the Cambridges and perhaps even the PoW. Harry and Meghan plotted their exit then and didn't get the response they expected from the RF, the British government and the Canadians, and were not as succesful as they believed they would be in lauching their "brand", which, as of now, hasn't really taken off. That made them even more frustated and more likely to react in anger.
Sitting afar, any comments we may make our speculation, so with that caveat out of the way here is what think happened.

> I do not think Harry had an issue with the Cambridges till probably 2017.

> He was keen to settle down in his personal life and find a meaningful role in his professional life, especially after he left his army.

> He was clearly deeply in love with Meghan, who I think is an intelligent, articulate and driven individual.

> In addition to chasm caused when William is allegedly suggested to Harry to progress his relationship with Meghan cautiously, I think problems really started when Meghan began to see and feel the constraints of Palace life. H&M probably expected to be treated as equals with W&C, but the Firm, by its very construct, is hierarchical, and the sixth in line to throne has a lot less say. The combination of these two factors, to me, was the heart of the problem.

> The rest is probably as @Mbruno has suggested.
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  #1244  
Old 07-02-2020, 08:30 AM
muriel's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Sometimes people are their own worse enemies.
Truer words are seldom spoken!
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  #1245  
Old 07-02-2020, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I am not sure if their legal team's strategy of bringing up completely unrelated issues and facts into the court proceedings is the most effective one in terms of their prospect of success in the lawsuit. But maybe, at this point, a favorable decision from the court is less important to the Sussexes than making a statement and lashing out at certain people.
That is my take as well after reviewing this latest fiasco. I do not see how this is going to go down well for them. it just continues to prove how destructive they are to the BRF and themselves. The Queen and Prince Charles really need to get a handle on these two.
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  #1246  
Old 07-02-2020, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The way I see it Harry was having trouble coming into terms with his "new status" in the Family after William got married (on top of his previous issues from his troubled childhood and teenage years). Then Meghan came along (after Harry had already been rejected by other women who opted out of a possible royal life) and, instead of providing him with much needed stability (as many posters here expected) , she actually made things worse causing further strains with the Cambridges and perhaps even the PoW. Harry and Meghan plotted their exit then and didn't get the response they expected from the RF, the British government and the Canadians, and were not as succesful as they believed they would be in lauching their "brand", which, as of now, hasn't really taken off. That made them even more frustated and more likely to react in anger.
That's really well put Mbruno. I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

In a way I think Harry thought his popularity would translate into a lucrative career, flying around the world (with enough of the 'Royal' stardust, but without any of the restrictions) stopping off in countries to make passionate speeches and be lauded for it. (and paid handsomely) which isn't a terrible dream by any means, but i do think naive. And with his popularity taking a hit due to the ugly way in which he conducted himself during his 'divorce' from the RF (apart from on twitter of course, where his screeching fans reside), his resentment appears to have grown to proportions where he is now so blinded by his rage that he doesn't care about any collateral damage he causes in his quest to punish the tabloids for being big meanies. Such a sad situation, and i think will only continue to worsen as this case drags on.
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  #1247  
Old 07-02-2020, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Sitting afar, any comments we may make our speculation, so with that caveat out of the way here is what think happened.

> I do not think Harry had an issue with the Cambridges till probably 2017.

> He was keen to settle down in his personal life and find a meaningful role in his professional life, especially after he left his army.

> He was clearly deeply in love with Meghan, who I think is an intelligent, articulate and driven individual.

> In addition to chasm caused when William is allegedly suggested to Harry to progress his relationship with Meghan cautiously, I think problems really started when Meghan began to see and feel the constraints of Palace life. H&M probably expected to be treated as equals with W&C, but the Firm, by its very construct, is hierarchical, and the sixth in line to throne has a lot less say. The combination of these two factors, to me, was the heart of the problem.

> The rest is probably as @Mbruno has suggested.
Very well said! I think that both of you really hit the nail on the head.
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  #1248  
Old 07-02-2020, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
In recent years, in my view, Harry appears to not have displayed good judgement on a number of occassions. This is just another one of them, IMO.
Itís clear that Harry has chosen Meghan over his family....He will support her in everything she says and does, period, end of story.
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  #1249  
Old 07-02-2020, 10:48 AM
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Some great points on here by our posters.
I do not think Meghan or Harry entered the marriage with the intention of moving away to either USA or Canada. IMO things did not go the way Meghan thought they would, i.e. the protocol the pecking order. I do not intend that to be a nasty comment , just that she did not give herself time to find out about the way the system works. It has went on for 1000 years, and however slowly it has changed.
When you consider the courtship it was back and forward over the Atlantic, how much of the inside story did she have a chance to work out.
It must have came as a tremendous shock to her to discover the limitations that she had now been placed under.

I am not going to rehash old conversations and examples, that I think IMO were game changers, just that I am quite sad about the whole mess. There is a feeling of a red line that has now been crossed.
They appeared to have used the court case as a vehicle to make public their grievances.
IMO they will regret this, it is now affecting the Crown and her majesty will not stand by and allow this to happen.
They appear to be dependant on funding at the moment , how long will this last or what restrictions will be placed on them. You do not bite the hand that feeds you.

The only comment I will make re the cost of the wedding, if Meghan thinks everybody turned up to see her she is very much mistaken, it was Dianas sad little boy they wanted to see happy. That crowd would have turned out for any of his previous girlfriends.
She was not the draw.
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  #1250  
Old 07-02-2020, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
Some great points on here by our posters.
I do not think Meghan or Harry entered the marriage with the intention of moving away to either USA or Canada. IMO things did not go the way Meghan thought they would, i.e. the protocol the pecking order. I do not intend that to be a nasty comment , just that she did not give herself time to find out about the way the system works. It has went on for 1000 years, and however slowly it has changed.
When you consider the courtship it was back and forward over the Atlantic, how much of the inside story did she have a chance to work out.
It must have came as a tremendous shock to her to discover the limitations that she had now been placed under.

I am not going to rehash old conversations and examples, that I think IMO were game changers, just that I am quite sad about the whole mess. There is a feeling of a red line that has now been crossed.
They appeared to have used the court case as a vehicle to make public their grievances.
IMO they will regret this, it is now affecting the Crown and her majesty will not stand by and allow this to happen.
They appear to be dependant on funding at the moment , how long will this last or what restrictions will be placed on them. You do not bite the hand that feeds you.

The only comment I will make re the cost of the wedding, if Meghan thinks everybody turned up to see her she is very much mistaken, it was Dianas sad little boy they wanted to see happy. That crowd would have turned out for any of his previous girlfriends.
She was not the draw.
It was a royal wedding. A certain number of people would turn out for any royal who was moderately well known and tourists would come to London/Windsor.. regardless of who the bride was.. Or the bridegroom....
Royal weddings are not such a draw as they used to be, but they are still an entertainment...
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  #1251  
Old 07-02-2020, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Itís clear that Harry has chosen Meghan over his family....He will support her in everything she says and does, period, end of story.
It's good to be loyal to his family. Good luck to him for putting them first. Sadly, he sees this as a conflict with his loyalty to UK and the Commonwealth.
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  #1252  
Old 07-02-2020, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
It was a royal wedding. A certain number of people would turn out for any royal who was moderately well known and tourists would come to London/Windsor.. regardless of who the bride was.. Or the bridegroom....
Royal weddings are not such a draw as they used to be, but they are still an entertainment...
Royal Weddings are a huge draw. But mostly just the senior royals.

Loads of people have made great points.

I too do not think that Harry had an issue with the Cambridges pre Meghan. He was very much apart of their immediate family and they all adored him and he was very close to George. I think their noses were put out of joint when he met Meghan too. Not because of her but because it changes their world and Kate very much had a two for one deal on those boys.

He changed with Meghan, not because she controls him but because things change when you get married and or have children..

Harry was not always the joy the press portrayed him as. He always hated them. Neither is it healthy to be seen as Diana's 'sad boy.' Kate Beckinsale has often talked about this as her extremely famous father died when she was six and the media continued to refer to her until harly twenties as tragically Kate. It's more alarming that Harry himself would keep perpetuating this victim.story rather then moving past it for mental health.

He has changed now and not because he hates the press, or is a bit difficult. He always was but because he had turned his back on his life and chosen to seemingly wallow in events 22 years in the past and is stuck in a cycle. It is worrying. It is PTSD, and it is alarming for his mental health.
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  #1253  
Old 07-02-2020, 12:15 PM
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I agree that people change when they get married, their responsibilities their lifestyle, everything changes. So Harry 's relationship with W & K would change, I am not sure if I would agree that their nose would be out of joint.
But who knows.
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  #1254  
Old 07-02-2020, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
I agree that people change when they get married, their responsibilities their lifestyle, everything changes. So Harry 's relationship with W & K would change, I am not sure if I would agree that their nose would be out of joint.
But who knows.
Maybe not but they probably felt it. No one really likes change but for him hopefully he was always going to meet someone and move away from them. They probably wanted that for him too. Emotions are never straight forward.
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  #1255  
Old 07-02-2020, 12:20 PM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
I agree that people change when they get married, their responsibilities their lifestyle, everything changes. So Harry 's relationship with W & K would change, I am not sure if I would agree that their nose would be out of joint.
But who knows.
Why would their noses be out of joint? What for? Do they resent Harrys popularity? Because that has not lasted. The only difference was IMO that they did not take to Meghan...and that would be bound to affect their relationship with Harry....
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  #1256  
Old 07-02-2020, 12:21 PM
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I have really enjoyed this discussion today, we have all shared our views, didn't always agree.
I feel I have been having a socially distance chat with friends,

Thank you
We are still outside meetings only, no inside.
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  #1257  
Old 07-02-2020, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Why would their noses be out of joint? What for? Do they resent Harrys popularity? Because that has not lasted. The only difference was IMO that they did not take to Meghan...and that would be bound to affect their relationship with Harry....
That was me. I meant it more that when he got serious with Meghan it changed their dynamic. They were very personally and professionally close over those years and he was part of their nuclear family. They probably felt the loss.
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  #1258  
Old 07-02-2020, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
That was me. I meant it more that when he got serious with Meghan it changed their dynamic. They were very personally and professionally close over those years and he was part of their nuclear family. They probably felt the loss.
I have been thinking over what you said, I was in a situation when a divorced friend was never away from my home, it became her place to go, if I went anywhere I included her which I did willingly, made allowances made sure she she was never left out. She then met a new partner , and the dynamics changed, I see where you are coming from.
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  #1259  
Old 07-02-2020, 12:42 PM
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Well if you have already fueled up the bus and hit the accelerator to run over five friends, why not just floor it and run down the BRF?

Her legal case must be weakening by the minute for this PR initiative to be taking flight.
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  #1260  
Old 07-02-2020, 01:04 PM
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okay - since we are completely ignoring the topic of the thread. I present my little bit

I think I have the time line worked out and scenario and hope one day to find the truth - one way or the other.
1. Harry has always been insecure, but with Kate and William as a threesome group they worked happily. I think they didn't push rank and they worked well together. Whatever role he missed from the army was replaced with work. He was part of something. When the kids came - he was happy even with getting pushed down the line of succession.
2. Along comes Meghan and first problem. We get the wedding - when they are first approached with offers of documentaries, exclusive glossy magazines deals and photo exclusives. All of which Meghan is very eager to take - and she is told by the palace she cant. She feels that she works for this - not just the money but the publicity. And she has worked for this her whole life , long before she meet Harry why should she give that up.
3. When the %@# hit the fan - Pregnancy and Archie's birth. Things are going great - popularity soaring and after tour of Australia releases that she has more control then she realizes. She fires the royal doctors and gets her own. They get their own PR company and split from the Cambridge household. Then they say they will not announce birth and will have a private family event and not announce the god parents and such. Everyone is a bit confused as the press and in turn the British public have been frozen out of a royal birth. But there was more going on there - I am thinking there was an exclusive TV talk, possibly Gayle King and an exclusive photo shot. There was something rather large that the Palace vetoed before Archie's birth.
And that was when they decided to leave. Think about it they had been approached by many offers of money, access and freebees that they wanted to accept and they have been told they couldn't. Harry starts seeing the problem as well - they are the most popular why cant they benefit from their hard work and it is their life why cant they live it the way they want. So they draw up the plan to became part time royals - allowing for them to accept these offers and do the exciting projects with celebrities that they have been offered.
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