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  #741  
Old 12-17-2019, 11:22 AM
Ista's Avatar
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I think the larger point is that it is for the court to determine whether the actions of the named news outlets rise to the level of anything illegal, or if there was any kind of concerted effort to damage the Duchess. Until there is actually any movement on the court case, the rest is opinion, speculation and allegations.
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  #742  
Old 12-17-2019, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
I think it's a mistake for them to sue the media. Win or lose the media will remember and take it out on them for the rest of their lives. The stories printed about them weren't that bad. All the members of the royal family get picked on the media would have found a new target on their own.
Some of the stories, no-they were typical of other written about other members of the BRF at times.

However, there were some stories that were pretty dreadful.
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  #743  
Old 12-17-2019, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
Yes, there is no monolithic "they" for reporters, photographers, bloggers, other social media, etc. I think it's important to define exactly who is being referenced in these discussions. It's easy to paint with a broad brush, but not very useful if the objective is to encourage accurate discussion.
I agree but in this case the name of this thread should be changed. Harry and Meghan are suing a specific newspaper the Mail on Sunday. If we go down the line of yours and Muriel's argument, there should be no ill effect from other newspapers of the Sussex crusade against the mail on sunday...

I mean if the newspapers are competitors, they should be thrilled that one of them is getting sued as it means one of them is maybe going to get a big fined, will maybe loose some money over it.


After all, what does the Independent, itv news etc... care about a lawsuit about one of its competitors. Especially if it concerns illegal practices that they would never do such as publishing someone's letters without their consent. Maybe there are quite happy to see the mail on sunday and daily mail getting sued for something that other papers don't do and that brings tons of money to these two tabloids.
  #744  
Old 12-17-2019, 03:26 PM
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Why is it wrong for the Sussexes to take legal action when both Charles and William have done so as well? Why is it the Sussexes that are poisoning the well? It is my contention that that particular well has been well and truly poisoned for decades.

The media broke the law as regards Harry's phone messages and Meghan's letter. Saying her father is at fault for giving them said letter is splitting hairs. IMHO they paid for it and paid well. If he didn't sell the whole letter or if he did and they cherry-picked what to publish is irrelevant and that's on them.
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  #745  
Old 12-18-2019, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Well if we being technical her father didn't even release it to the public. He handed it to the newspaper who in turn did. Hence the lawsuit. They printed it. They published it. Thomas Markle provided it to them. So in that sense "released" is correct.
And I think in copyright cases, the big factor is if the copyrighted material was used for profit. It was reported, that Mr Markle didn't get paid for giving the letter to Mail on Sunday, whereas MOS definitely made profit publishing it.
  #746  
Old 12-24-2019, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaiSoSo View Post
I didn't say the media were a joined-up group that co-operated closely which each other (although the royal reporters do spend time on twitter hyping up each others stories). I said they (the media that we are discussing in the lawsuit) did everything they could to harm Meghan's reputation with the public. I don't know if it was done individually or jointly and frankly I don't care, it doesn't change the fact that they made up stories, blatantly lied and did other unethical and sometimes illegal things to harm Meghan (and Harry if you look at the bigger picture).

As for the letter....Meghan's father gave the letter to the DM that isn't illegal (that just makes him a horrible father). What is illegal is for the DM to publish the letter without Meghan's consent and that is being addressed in the lawsuit.
I am not sure how much you know about the British media but this, to a large extent, is how certain factions operate. The phone hacking is in the past and a number of years ago there was a huge review of despicable practices and a few papers folded and heads rolled. Among those named as victims of hacking were William, Harry and in particular Kate Middleton. This has been legally dealt with and I see no reason for Harry to raise it again. Are the gutter press nice to Meghan. No. Are they nice to anyone. No. Have Meghan and Harry dealt with them particularly well. Again no they haven't and they have inflamed them. Racism is everywhere. It just is. Tragically. But in large part the ism being used against Meghan Markle is cultural. Her central trouble is that she does not understand the British press or people. Perfectly sensible people I know watched their documentary and said what are they doing? Are they having a breakdown? And to intents in the British media Harry, before the sabbatical, looked like he was having one. This six week break was I warrant for some serious breathing space. ...But he was born to this. He should be a support for Meghan in navigating it but he is crumbling. You live with the media gremlins. You manage them, you dance with them, you understand the sympathico. They will be nice to you. They will eat you...and tomorrow no one will remember. I mean the things they have done. They are practically castrated now. Who will remember what they said about you but people will remember what you said yourself and that you released a tirade against them, not that any of it was untrue, and you went on national television looking more than a little fragile... I mean everyone remembers Diana and Panorama. No one remembers what the papers said about her over the years...and they were less then kind.

In large part the letter debacle was brought on by Meghan because her friends, with her consent no doubt, mentioned it in an American article in support of her. The media then duly went sniffing. I mean that is their job and her father obliged. I mean he was talking to the media anyway. Why did she write the letter? She doesn't know what she is dealing with. I mean has Kate ever sanctioned the media to interview her friends? This is two people floundering and I for one am not laughing at them but concerned for them. To survive Meghan needs to become like them. She cannot change anything but unfortunately for her that may be a bit like dying inside. So I have concerns for them both...
  #747  
Old 12-24-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Cocoasneeze View Post
And I think in copyright cases, the big factor is if the copyrighted material was used for profit. It was reported, that Mr Markle didn't get paid for giving the letter to Mail on Sunday, whereas MOS definitely made profit publishing it.
Copyright is tricky. You would need an expert and given it is British law. Case law. Most particularly the last few. How much was published? With whose consent? I actually don't think they will win this. Given her side mentioed the letter first. Where royals are on sure fire privacy cases is pictures taken on private property where the majority if not all their cases are taken.
  #748  
Old 12-24-2019, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
Copyright is tricky. You would need an expert and given it is British law. Case law. Most particularly the last few. How much was published? With whose consent? I actually don't think they will win this. Given her side mentioed the letter first. Where royals are on sure fire privacy cases is pictures taken on private property where the majority if not all their cases are taken.
Meghan is allowed to mention the letter. Her friends can mention the letter. Her father could've mentioned the letter. Dailymail could've mentioned the letter. None of this would've broken the copyright. Mail on Sunday published the letter for profit, and that's when the copyright was broken.
  #749  
Old 12-24-2019, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoasneeze View Post
Meghan is allowed to mention the letter. Her friends can mention the letter. Her father could've mentioned the letter. Dailymail could've mentioned the letter. None of this would've broken the copyright. Mail on Sunday published the letter for profit, and that's when the copyright was broken.
They can but I don't know. I just do not see this going their way. Given the mauling and overhaul of legal practices with the gutter press, I don't see them printing this without legal advice. They may have been just within the law. But the law is a complicated beast. I mean broadsheets would not publish anything without being watertight but we all know other members of the press are more suspect.
  #750  
Old 12-24-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
I am not sure how much you know about the British media but this, to a large extent, is how certain factions operate. The phone hacking is in the past and a number of years ago there was a huge review of despicable practices and a few papers folded and heads rolled. Among those named as victims of hacking were William, Harry and in particular Kate Middleton. This has been legally dealt with and I see no reason for Harry to raise it again. Are the gutter press nice to Meghan. No. Are they nice to anyone. No. Have Meghan and Harry dealt with them particularly well. Again no they haven't and they have inflamed them. Racism is everywhere. It just is. Tragically. But in large part the ism being used against Meghan Markle is cultural. Her central trouble is that she does not understand the British press or people. Perfectly sensible people I know watched their documentary and said what are they doing? Are they having a breakdown? And to intents in the British media Harry, before the sabbatical, looked like he was having one. This six week break was I warrant for some serious breathing space. ...But he was born to this. He should be a support for Meghan in navigating it but he is crumbling. You live with the media gremlins. You manage them, you dance with them, you understand the sympathico. They will be nice to you. They will eat you...and tomorrow no one will remember. I mean the things they have done. They are practically castrated now. Who will remember what they said about you but people will remember what you said yourself and that you released a tirade against them, not that any of it was untrue, and you went on national television looking more than a little fragile... I mean everyone remembers Diana and Panorama. No one remembers what the papers said about her over the years...and they were less then kind.

In large part the letter debacle was brought on by Meghan because her friends, with her consent no doubt, mentioned it in an American article in support of her. The media then duly went sniffing. I mean that is their job and her father obliged. I mean he was talking to the media anyway. Why did she write the letter? She doesn't know what she is dealing with. I mean has Kate ever sanctioned the media to interview her friends? This is two people floundering and I for one am not laughing at them but concerned for them. To survive Meghan needs to become like them. She cannot change anything but unfortunately for her that may be a bit like dying inside. So I have concerns for them both...
I think this is a very well written post, and I agree with a lot of issues raised.

I also think Meghan needs time to understand how life in Britain actually works, and the work that she will need to do if she is to succeed in her role as a supporting member of the BRF. I have often posted on how I think H&M have not approached their relationship with the media with a level of maturity that was needed, and that has led to the negative spiral one over the last 12 months or so. I hope they can address this soon.
  #751  
Old 12-24-2019, 10:15 AM
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What I’ve seen from Harry and Meghan is their dedication to their roles as President and Vice President of The Queen’s Commonwealth Trust and to their royal patronage’s. They’ve been working very hard behind the scenes - especially Meghan. That woman conducted two royal tours while pregnant, she worked on her charitable projects while pregnant and worked throughout her maternity leave after Archie’s birth.

I’m looking forward to 2020 with hope and with prayer that the Sussexes will be able to have a prosperous the new year. I also hope the British press will leave their silliness, pettiness, sexist, misogynistic and racist attitudes on the alter and approach 2020 with some sense and allow the Duchess of Sussex to carry on with her duties as a wife, mother and senior royal without launching a campaign to assassinate her character and work.
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  #752  
Old 12-24-2019, 10:39 AM
ACO ACO is online now
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The media did what they did and the law will settle it. Meghan doesnít have to deal with their vileness. They made the right decision.
  #753  
Old 12-24-2019, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
The media did what they did and the law will settle it. Meghan doesnít have to deal with their vileness and the recent coverage of Stomyz shows nothing has changed. They made the right decision.
Amen. Meghan donít have to put up with jack. The media stepped out of line and legal actions are being taken.
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  #754  
Old 12-24-2019, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
I am not sure how much you know about the British media but this, to a large extent, is how certain factions operate. The phone hacking is in the past and a number of years ago there was a huge review of despicable practices and a few papers folded and heads rolled. Among those named as victims of hacking were William, Harry and in particular Kate Middleton. This has been legally dealt with and I see no reason for Harry to raise it again. Are the gutter press nice to Meghan. No. Are they nice to anyone. No. Have Meghan and Harry dealt with them particularly well. Again no they haven't and they have inflamed them. Racism is everywhere. It just is. Tragically. But in large part the ism being used against Meghan Markle is cultural. Her central trouble is that she does not understand the British press or people. Perfectly sensible people I know watched their documentary and said what are they doing? Are they having a breakdown? And to intents in the British media Harry, before the sabbatical, looked like he was having one. This six week break was I warrant for some serious breathing space. ...But he was born to this. He should be a support for Meghan in navigating it but he is crumbling. You live with the media gremlins. You manage them, you dance with them, you understand the sympathico. They will be nice to you. They will eat you...and tomorrow no one will remember. I mean the things they have done. They are practically castrated now. Who will remember what they said about you but people will remember what you said yourself and that you released a tirade against them, not that any of it was untrue, and you went on national television looking more than a little fragile... I mean everyone remembers Diana and Panorama. No one remembers what the papers said about her over the years...and they were less then kind.

In large part the letter debacle was brought on by Meghan because her friends, with her consent no doubt, mentioned it in an American article in support of her. The media then duly went sniffing. I mean that is their job and her father obliged. I mean he was talking to the media anyway. Why did she write the letter? She doesn't know what she is dealing with. I mean has Kate ever sanctioned the media to interview her friends? This is two people floundering and I for one am not laughing at them but concerned for them. To survive Meghan needs to become like them. She cannot change anything but unfortunately for her that may be a bit like dying inside. So I have concerns for them both...
This is an excellent well thought out balanced post.
  #755  
Old 12-24-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Amen. Meghan donít have to put up with jack.
I think it depends on whether she sees her future as a supporting member of the BRF or not. As a member of the BRF, you do need to carry the media with you, and develop a working relationship. A confrontational approach rarely works in this regard, IMO.
  #756  
Old 12-24-2019, 11:08 AM
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DM just did a hit piece on the Sussex Christmas card. The rag is raising questions about the picture being photoshopped.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...as-e-card.html

And DM is wondering why it's being sued. No you don't take nonsense like this. To me DM is still sore about the lawsuit and sore about the support Meghan and Harry get in certain quarters.
  #757  
Old 12-24-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
DM just did a hit piece on the Sussex Christmas card. The rag is raising questions about the picture being photoshopped.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...as-e-card.html

And DM is wondering why it's being sued. No you don't take nonsense like this. To me DM is still sore about the lawsuit and sore about the support Meghan and Harry get in certain quarters.
Do you see anything in that article that is worth suing the DM for?

To me, this is a classic case of where what should be a symbiotic working relationship breaks down. Given the tactics adopted by H&M, the media is free to publish articles like this, as they only raise questions in the mind of the reader rather than being slanderous.
  #758  
Old 12-24-2019, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Do you see anything in that article that is worth suing the DM for?

To me, this is a classic case of where what should be a symbiotic working relationship breaks down. Given the tactics adopted by H&M, the media is free to publish articles like this, as they only raise questions in the mind of the reader rather than being slanderous.
Honestly, given that they appear to have photoshopped the picture of Meghan themselves, yeah, I'd wonder if they overstepped the copyright on the original photo.

In the photo on https://twitter.com/queenscomtrust/s...41848411303941, Meghan's face is not as in-focus as it is in the photo on the DM article.
  #759  
Old 12-24-2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Do you see anything in that article that is worth suing the DM for?

To me, this is a classic case of where what should be a symbiotic working relationship breaks down. Given the tactics adopted by H&M, the media is free to publish articles like this, as they only raise questions in the mind of the reader rather than being slanderous.
And, after reading what was actually written, what is being reported about is what others are saying on social media, and screenshots of some of those posts have been included.

There is absolutely no way to shut down negatively slanted coverage, so the best way to handle it is to avoid getting in a shoving match to begin with---too late for that, but at the minimum compounding the error can still be avoided.
  #760  
Old 12-24-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
DM just did a hit piece on the Sussex Christmas card. The rag is raising questions about the picture being photoshopped.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...as-e-card.html

And DM is wondering why it's being sued. No you don't take nonsense like this. To me DM is still sore about the lawsuit and sore about the support Meghan and Harry get in certain quarters.
This isn't a vendetta. This is who the Daily Mail are. For some laughs I would suggest you do some searches on the recent Matt Smith/ Lily James/Claire Foy debacle about who may have broken up, cheated, gotten together. They got about 500 useless articles about it in over 4 days and sent paps after them. Their response. Nothing.

This is who the Daily Mail are. I don't mean to dismiss what has been gutter journalism but Meghan and/or Harry are not singled out or special. They just provide stories. And unfortunately being a real life continuing family drama it is continuous. I mean I did laugh when they moaned because the papers said they had a brass bath and they hadn't. They say that stuff about everyone. Like I said my concern is for mental health, a marriage and a small child being raised in an emotionally chaotic environment. Which Harry undoubtedly was. I hope he doesn't make the same mistakes. There is shades of Diana there.
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