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  #381  
Old 10-06-2019, 01:00 PM
Zaira's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Well good luck to them. There’s an article in the Sunday Times today titled “Does Prince Harry want to tear down the monarchy? On his strange week of self-sabotage”

As there’s not much more to add to the conversation I’ll wait until the court action proceeds.

Oh the hyperbole continues! Was this Long's article? Not too long ago she wrote some highly speculative and unkind words about the state of another royal marriage. How the concern does change in a matter of months!

Given the other front page story is that Dear Boris is going to dare the Queen to remove him, safe to say that Harry's lawsuits are rather low on the concern pole of crisis for the monarchy.
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  #382  
Old 10-06-2019, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Well good luck to them. There’s an article in the Sunday Times today titled “Does Prince Harry want to tear down the monarchy? On his strange week of self-sabotage”

As there’s not much more to add to the conversation I’ll wait until the court action proceeds.
By Camilla Long of all people. Hard to take seriously. She has a right to her opinion but yeah...
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  #383  
Old 10-06-2019, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaira View Post
It is curious to me that more are not focusing on the fact that Harry isn't going this alone. He has joined a group claim:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...mpression=true



Harry joining adds a lot of power to the group claim, but there being a group claim shows the scale of the issue.
Very good point. I suspect more aren't focusing on this because it doesn't fit the narrative: it's Harry and Meghan who need to figure out a way to deal with the press. Just ignore the fact that the tabloids have been getting away with this for years. I was never a fan of Cherie Blair but she definitely had my sympathy when the tabloids constantly harassed her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Well good luck to them. There’s an article in the Sunday Times today titled “Does Prince Harry want to tear down the monarchy? On his strange week of self-sabotage”

As there’s not much more to add to the conversation I’ll wait until the court action proceeds.
Interesting that you consider Camilla Long a credible source but not Sean O'Grady or Omid Scobie.

EDITED to add the following:

Hmm... I must be missing something. I just read the article and it has a different title: "Maybe Prince Harry hates the monarchy. Why else wage war on its cheerleader, the press."

Not quite the same as "Does Prince Harry want to tear down the monarchy."

The article is relegated to page 25. Not exactly front page news.

Here are a few of Long's statements:
  • She calls the African tour as "a bit dismal and boring."
  • She dismisses the Mail's action as a "relatively minor issue of reprinting a private letter"
  • She claims "Meghan isn’t “bullied” by the press, unless you count legitimate criticism of her endless hypocrisy and a few articles about their petty refusal to reveal the name of, say, their new dog"
  • She also states "why any royal would sabotage his own hard work to this extent baffles me - they do so little of it."
It's definitely good for a giggle.
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  #384  
Old 10-06-2019, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Well good luck to them. There’s an article in the Sunday Times today titled “Does Prince Harry want to tear down the monarchy? On his strange week of self-sabotage”
That's a real concern, the issue over damage to the monarchy. I guess the Sussexes are doing what they believe is right for them. Good luck with that. I just hope it turns out well for them & the institution. I suspect that interest/sympathy will soon turn to boredom or indifference or irritation for lots of British people. Rich celebrities paying lots of money to lawyers because they can. Yet another milestone on the road to even more people seeing members of the royal family as just another type of celebrity. Going further down the rabbit hole.

Reading some comments, can i just add that the British public are no better & no worse than any other western public.
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  #385  
Old 10-06-2019, 01:36 PM
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If Harry's case is akin to a class action suit it has more weight and the tabloids can't beat up these other people without risking public backlash.

The Sussexes should not have to roll over for the British press and take it lying down. They have the right to fight and their position does not give the press the right to manufacture stories that would hurt them even physically.

And Harry destroying the monarchy .... and Andrew's mess won't?. Andrew's issue is a 1000 times worse and that won't go away. These commentators are scared the lawsuits will uncover some unsavory and maybe some illegal practices to get stories. I think they are counting on the queen and Charles to step in and get the Sussexes to drop their suits.
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  #386  
Old 10-06-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
How do you know that there is a lack of judgement, poor advised, not seeking or listening advice from the Prince of Wales, the Duke of Cambridge or Buckingham Palace? What is your backing for this allegation?

Note that in 2012 the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge took legal action against a French magazine. Six people were convicted and the publisher had to pay 100.000 Euro in damages.

In 1988 the Queen took legal action against The Sun for publishing a stolen family photo. This was a breach of copyright (!). The lawyers of The Sun agreed to an out-of-court settlement with an unknown financial arrangement.

In 1992 the Queen again took legal action against The Sun. Now for publishing the Christmas Adress two days before transmission. The lawyers of The Sun agreed to an out-of-court settlement. The publisher had to pay 200.000 Pound in damages.

In 1993 the Princess of Wales took legal action against The Mirror after they published photos of her exercising in the gym. The lawyers of The Mirror agreed to an out-of-court settlement with an unknown financial arrangement.

In 1995 the Prince of Wales took legal action against former housekeeper Wendy Berry, who published a "tell all book" in the United States. The Prince later obtained an injunction that entitled him to all profits from her book.

Were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, the Prince and Princess of Wales, the Queen herself also gambling with goodwill, have had poor judgement, or not seeking or listening to advice? They all won their legal cases. One by one. And with the severe infringements on their human rights (the right to respect for private life, family life, correspondence and home) the Duke and Duchess of Sussex are by no means without a fair chance on legal success.
I think this is disingenuous. You see the trend with your examples. They were made in good time to the breach and were targeting one specific event. If this was just the suit for the letter this would be comparable. However it is clearly not.

Harry not only sued the Mail on Sunday he is also suing the Sun and the Mirror for historic claims that are at least 10 years old. The Royals have known about the phone hacking since 2006. Why now? Because as per his letter, he is on a mission. And lets not forget the letter. None of those examples you cited came with something like that. This is a vendetta and likely a vendetta he has had since he was a boy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
Interesting that you consider Camilla Long a credible source but not Sean O'Grady or Omid Scobie.

EDITED to add the following:

Hmm... I must be missing something. I just read the article and it has a different title: "Maybe Prince Harry hates the monarchy. Why else wage war on its cheerleader, the press."

Not quite the same as "Does Prince Harry want to tear down the monarchy."

The article is relegated to page 25. Not exactly front page news.

Here are a few of Long's statements:
  • She calls the African tour as "a bit dismal and boring."
  • She dismisses the Mail's action as a "relatively minor issue of reprinting a private letter"
  • She claims "Meghan isn’t “bullied” by the press, unless you count legitimate criticism of her endless hypocrisy and a few articles about their petty refusal to reveal the name of, say, their new dog"
  • She also states "why any royal would sabotage his own hard work to this extent baffles me - they do so little of it."
It's definitely good for a giggle.
Camilla Long doesn't write articles, she writes a column. It will be about the same place in every Sunday Times.

Sounds like a Laineygossip write up of a Cambridge event! Long is paid to give her opinion. *shrug*
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  #387  
Old 10-06-2019, 01:42 PM
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no better & no worse than any other western public.
Indeed, and the same is true of the gutter press..
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  #388  
Old 10-06-2019, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
How do you know that there is a lack of judgement, poor advised, not seeking or listening advice from the Prince of Wales, the Duke of Cambridge or Buckingham Palace? What is your backing for this allegation?
I don't, which is why I said "not sure which of these is driving these actions"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Don’t fall for what the DM and others want its readers to fall for. They will fight back by trying to turn everything against the right thing Harry and Meghan are doing.

Also, The Queen is the boss. None of this is being done without being run by her first.
I am not falling for what the Press is saying. I just think that the press statement put out by Harry was ill thought through, and a serious error of judgement on his part. We can argue about the merits of the litigation separately, but my comments here are related just to Harry's press statement of last week.

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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
I'm sorry but I'm not always impressed with the British public.
Fantastic, 60 million people written off in one fail sweep!
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  #389  
Old 10-06-2019, 01:59 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mey View Post

Harry not only sued the Mail on Sunday he is also suing the Sun and the Mirror for historic claims that are at least 10 years old. The Royals have known about the phone hacking since 2006. Why now? Because as per his letter, he is on a mission. And lets not forget the letter. None of those examples you cited came with something like that. This is a vendetta and likely a vendetta he has had since he was a boy.
Yes, I think you're definitely right, this has been simmering for years.

As I've posted earlier it seems Harry sees this as a bigger issue than his own relationship with the press.

According to Alex Barker of the Financial Times: "People close to the Duke say he sees himself mounting a bigger campaign against a manipulative and deceitful press - the rot in Britain's civic life."

Omid Scobie has stated: "This industry of 'fast' news is incredibly toxic and I think Harry wants to change this, not just for himself and his wife, but for the entire royal family in general and the future members of the royal family like the Cambridge children and Archie," he said. "This is Harry feeling confident enough to take on what he sees as dark force."

Harry is right. The media definitely needs to be called to task. But as others have pointed out this is a very volatile situation and could blow up in Harry's face. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
I am not falling for what the Press is saying. I just think that the press statement put out by Harry was ill thought through, and a serious error of judgement on his part. We can argue about the merits of the litigation separately, but my comments here are related just to Harry's press statement of last week.



Fantastic, 60 million people written off in one fail sweep!

I apologize. I should have said "some members" of the British public. Please go back and read my post about the public's treatment of the Queen following Diana's death. It was IMO very unfair and (I think) lead by the media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Indeed, and the same is true of the gutter press..
Yes, you're right, we definitely have our own share of gutter press in the United States. But I think it's fair to say the tabloid press plays a much bigger role in British public life.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/gr...define-britain

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-phone-hacking
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  #390  
Old 10-06-2019, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mey View Post
I think this is disingenuous. You see the trend with your examples. They were made in good time to the breach and were targeting one specific event. If this was just the suit for the letter this would be comparable. However it is clearly not.

Harry not only sued the Mail on Sunday he is also suing the Sun and the Mirror for historic claims that are at least 10 years old. The Royals have known about the phone hacking since 2006. Why now? Because as per his letter, he is on a mission. And lets not forget the letter. None of those examples you cited came with something like that. This is a vendetta and likely a vendetta he has had since he was a boy.



Camilla Long doesn't write articles, she writes a column. It will be about the same place in every Sunday Times.

Sounds like a Laineygossip write up of a Cambridge event! Long is paid to give her opinion. *shrug*
The Duke and Duchess did not start juridical procedures about the phone hacking. They joined an already long existing procedure, started by numerous other victims of phone hacking. Compare it with former Prime Minister and Tory Grandee Sir John Major joining the procedure of Ms Gina Miller against the lenghty procreation of Parliament. And MP's joining the procedure of Joanna Cherry QC MP against the same procreation.
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  #391  
Old 10-06-2019, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
Yes, you're right, we definitely have our own share of gutter press in the United States. But I think it's fair to say the tabloid press plays a much bigger role in British public life.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/gr...define-britain

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-phone-hacking
I'm not sure they do to the same extent that they once did. That's a consequence of the ongoing revolution in how we get our news & entertainment. Things are a lot more fragmented now.

We are of course a small island (with getting on for 70 million of us on it!) so we don't have the plethora of newspapers that geographically large English speaking countries do despite having some very good regional papers like the London Standard or the Manchester Evening News as well as the Scottish papers. This means that a relatively small number of papers dominate the newspaper industry here.

How we regulate the press is a hot potato. Consensus on this issue is very challenging.

The Guardian of course has its own agenda when it comes to having a go at the oh so naughty red tops

Thank you for the link to the book, looks very interesting
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  #392  
Old 10-06-2019, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
True but Sean O’Grady writes for a republican newspaper and Omid is a ‘commentator’ for the American media who’s never said a critical word of the Sussexes in his life

The Sussexes are ‘British’ royals and need to figure out a way to deal with the British press.
They've figured out how to deal with the British press. They just won’t put up with their abuse and no one should want them to put up with it either.
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  #393  
Old 10-06-2019, 03:00 PM
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campaign against a manipulative and deceitful press - the rot in Britain's civic life."
For my part, I don't think its for an un-elected individual [whomsoever he may be] to 'campaign' for this, its for our elected representatives, who are paid to debate these matters, and make changes to the law as necessary - the BRF has NO such role [or mandate]

Of course, since he feels 'hard-done-by' he has chosen to take his grievance to law [as is his right], but on the wider issue of limits to the freedom of the Press, to me that isn't for him, but for others..
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  #394  
Old 10-06-2019, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
They've figured out how to deal with the British press. They just won’t put up with their abuse and no one should want them to put up with it either.



The British press need to find a way to do their jobs without breaking the law .
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  #395  
Old 10-06-2019, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
For my part, I don't think its for an un-elected individual [whomsoever he may be] to 'campaign' for this, its for our elected representatives, who are paid to debate these matters, and make changes to the law as necessary - the BRF has NO such role [or mandate]
..
Indeed it most certainly does not.

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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
They've figured out how to deal with the British press. They just won’t put up with their abuse and no one should want them to put up with it either.
If the press has broken the law then they will have to deal with the consequences. They will get little sympathy.

You are of course right that abuse is not on. At the same time any adult in public life is fair game for satire/criticism, sometimes cruel & in bad taste. The alternative would be to have such restrictive laws that we would no longer have a free press.
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  #396  
Old 10-06-2019, 03:52 PM
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You are right that people are fair game to satire/criticism even if cruel and in bad taste but the people making such comments have to be aware it could backfire. People have lost jobs over such kind of comments. So it is all a choice. Free press is free but it still has limitations.
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  #397  
Old 10-06-2019, 04:02 PM
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^ The recourse is [and should be] to the Courts.. its not for any one person to decide upon, but the duty of elected representatives..
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  #398  
Old 10-06-2019, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Indeed it most certainly does not.



If the press has broken the law then they will have to deal with the consequences. They will get little sympathy.

You are of course right that abuse is not on. At the same time any adult in public life is fair game for satire/criticism, sometimes cruel & in bad taste. The alternative would be to have such restrictive laws that we would no longer have a free press.
I'm all for a free press as long as there is some integrity that goes along with it. Satire/criticism is one thing but bullying, harassment and lies written as news and truth is another thing all together. People (public figures or not) shouldn't be forced to interact with those they don't want and shouldn't have to fear that they are going to publicly bashed on a regular basis.

I'm glad that Harry and Meghan are feeling strong enough to take this on and I wish them all the best.
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  #399  
Old 10-06-2019, 04:39 PM
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The one thing the royals are extremely familiar with and very much used to is criticism. Of course, no one likes to be criticized, but that’s the way of the world.

What Meghan has been put through isn’t normal criticism though. That’s the problem.

You know — I feel bad for Meghan, but I also feel bad for Harry. Despite the issues he have with the press over how they treated his mother when she was alive and in the aftermath of her death — Harry has been pretty kind to the media. He’s open up to many of the royal reporters and correspondents like no their royal before him. He’s given candid interviews to them on official tours and working trips. He always gave them the best shots and access and they have always found him very approachable. He’s the prince (now Duke) that everyone adore.

One thing Harry has been very candid about is his desire to find love and have kids of his own. For years, he had to sit back and watch his brother marry his university sweetheart and have children. Harry played the third wheel to his brother and sister-in-law for a long time. You could tell he lived a rather lonely life behind palace walls.

After all those lonely years, he’s finally found the happiness he craved for so long. He married the love of his life. She’s American born, former actress and she’s biracial. She’s a nice lady that make Harry very happy and 5 months ago she gave birth to their first child, Archie.

Harry is finally in a very good place in his life. You’d think the very people he’s been very open and nice to within the British press would be happy for him and respect what Harry has built for himself. Instead they have taken every opportunity to stomp and drag his wife through the mud...they’ve launched a smear campaign against her and used her personal family problems against her as well.

Hurting Meghan means you’re hurting Harry and their son. Harry is a nice guy and he carries himself very well as senior member of the royal family, but Harry is also tough and will fight back if you push him over the edge enough. I think those outside forces totally messed up with Harry and they’ve underestimated how much he would fight back to protect his family.

Harry and Meghan aren’t on the wrong side here. They’re not the bad guys. They’re not two senior royals that don’t know how to behave with the press.

This is the fault of the British press. They’ve crossed the line and the Sussexes are putting their foot down. They have to or else they won’t be able to properly do their job in representing The Queen, United Kingdom and Commonwealth now and in the many years to come.
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  #400  
Old 10-06-2019, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
^ The recourse is [and should be] to the Courts.. its not for any one person to decide upon, but the duty of elected representatives..
And Harry is resorting to the Courts--as it is illegal to tap people's phones to spy on them. Something already put into law by the duly elected representatives.

The tabloids were doing it for public voyeurism and sensationalism.
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