The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #2041  
Old 02-11-2021, 12:30 PM
HighGoalHighDreams's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Unspecified, United States
Posts: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Good for Meghan for winning. A lot of people thought she should have given up but I'm glad she stuck with her guns. This victory is not mentioned in the Mail (no surprise).
The article was in the Mail within a half hour, I believe, of the ruling, as the headline piece.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #2042  
Old 02-11-2021, 12:31 PM
eya eya is offline
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 19,119
The reaction of Meghan:


https://twitter.com/emynash/status/1...012481/photo/1
__________________

__________________
#ΜΕΝΟΥΜΕ ΑΣΦΑΛΕΙΣ! #StaySafe! and the 2021!!
Reply With Quote
  #2043  
Old 02-11-2021, 12:32 PM
ACO ACO is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
I think she will drop it now. This could potentially be very embarassing.
Drop what? Embarrassing? How? The MoS are the ones likely to push forward for a trial and based on the Judge’s own words, it is very much in Meghan’s favor.

It’s not officially official but she won.
Reply With Quote
  #2044  
Old 02-11-2021, 12:46 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Torrance, United States
Posts: 5,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
I think she will drop it now. This could potentially be very embarassing.
I agree that she's going to choose to drop it and would like to avoid a trial altogether.



Not surprised by the privacy ruling though and she must definitely feel some relief now.
Reply With Quote
  #2045  
Old 02-11-2021, 12:52 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,498
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighGoalHighDreams View Post
Shocked to hear it and frankly, beggars belief. I cannot believe for one second that a single word of that letter was written without every intention of its being published in full: in perfect, flowing calligraphy; with a second, also picture-perfect copy made; with extensive external input and advice (what private letter, unintended to be read by anyone else, would need it?); shared extensively to and fro, first with friends, then with book authors; and the all-telling slip on air with Omid, now admitted to having spoken with her, that she wrote it with the intent of sharing it.

I have some oceanfront property in Arizona that might interest the right honorable sir.

Regardless, the rule of law has spoken resoundingly in her favor and I cannot predict that the remaining issue will go to trial, nor that an appeal will be launched.

The judge did not make any conclusion one way or the other as to whether the claimant intended the letter to be published. But, citing recent developments in privacy law, he ruled that even if it could be proven at trial that the claimant intended to publish the letter, the defendant would fail to defend the claim on that basis (paragraphs 87 to 93 of the judgment).

He compared it to a case in which a celebrity couple's claim to breach of privacy regarding their wedding photographs was upheld, despite the fact that the couple had already authorized a magazine to publish photographs from the same wedding. (Note: I erroneously stated earlier that they were the same photographs.)


87. A separate line of argument, which came to the fore in the submissions of Counsel, involves reliance on the claimant’s alleged intention to publicise the Letter. [...]

88. [...] It is public knowledge, reported by the defendant itself, that the claimant is trained and expert in calligraphy. There is nothing very unusual in keeping a copy of an important letter. The defendant’s case, that the “only good” reason for sharing and discussing the Letter with the communications team before it was sent would be to use it to enhance the claimant’s image, is not easy to accept. A desire to receive public relations guidance and/or to guard against the risk of adverse publicity, if Mr Markle disclosed the letter, seem at least as plausible as explanations. [...] It is not possible to conclude with certainty that the disputed factual contentions could not be made good at a trial, or to say that the inferences relied on are unimaginable. But nor is it necessary for these disputes of fact to be resolved, because I am satisfied that this line of defence has no sound basis in law.

91. [...] Toulson & Phipps (above) at [4-027]-[4-035] states the modern position in the law of confidentiality: “It is … now settled that an intention to publish is not inconsistent with maintaining a right of confidentiality until the intended publication takes place.” See also The Law of Privacy and the Media at 11.50 – 11.52. [...]

93. One of the central features of Douglas was that authorised wedding photographs were due to appear shortly in OK! magazine. The claims of the celebrity couple were upheld at all stages, despite that fact. Douglas does indicate that an intention to publish may be “very relevant” to damages, but the Court held that “the fact that authorised photographs can be published will not provide a defence…”: [107]. [...]
Reply With Quote
  #2046  
Old 02-11-2021, 03:01 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 830
I wouldn't celebrate too soon. The paper is going to appeal.
Reply With Quote
  #2047  
Old 02-11-2021, 03:17 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: tacoma, United States
Posts: 639
Her sister Samantha wrote a book too, don't know if it is out yet?. Her father wants to write a tell all about her too. So maybe we can read about lawsuit #7 and #8, the story continue. It is really getting to be a bore. There are way more important things one should pay attention to, not this mess.(....)
Reply With Quote
  #2048  
Old 02-11-2021, 03:46 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Drop what? Embarrassing? How? The MoS are the ones likely to push forward for a trial and based on the Judge’s own words, it is very much in Meghan’s favor.

It’s not officially official but she won.
The copyright issue over sole authorship. That could be quite the media hoo ha if the Kensington staff are asked to give evidence and it goes to trial.
Reply With Quote
  #2049  
Old 02-11-2021, 04:13 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,137
I am extremely glad for Meghan's sake that Justice Warby decided in her favour. An appeal is not likely to succeed as there is no way that publishing the letter to her father can be justified as being in the public interest, which formed the bulk of the newspaper group's supposed reason for publishing. Meghan and Harry are probably enormously relieved this has gone her way.
Reply With Quote
  #2050  
Old 02-11-2021, 04:52 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 830
On a side note I'm embarrassed to admit that when I saw the name Justice Warby I thought "How convenient the judge's first name is "Justice" "
Reply With Quote
  #2051  
Old 02-11-2021, 05:15 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,498
Quote:
Originally Posted by eya View Post
I'm unclear on what she meant by "the courts for holding Associated Newspapers and The Mail on Sunday to account for their illegal and dehumanizing practices" and "misinformation". As far as I can discern from the full judgment, the one-off action for which Associated Newspapers and The Mail on Sunday were held to account in this judgment was their publication of her letter to her father without her consent, and neither she nor the judge claimed that they misinformed their readers regarding the letter.
Reply With Quote
  #2052  
Old 02-11-2021, 05:26 PM
MaiaMia_53's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 1,918
There seems to be some confusion about the ruling. Meghan won on privacy and copyright claims. The March hearing is set to determine next steps re the awarding of damages in regard to the issue of copyright ownership, which is the 'shadowy fanciful' defense put forward by the Fail.

The judge instructed the Fail to inform the 4 palace individuals whom the Fail asserted have rights to ownership to make a claim if they so choose. Legal experts have been tweeting they doubt any claims will be made by the 4 former KP staffers in question. Plus the Fail, simply put, has lost. The judge allowed the Fail a lot of rope in this case even to them getting away with making money off of writing about the case in the early going, and making OTT discovery demands of Meghan and her team. None of that worked. The Fail is well and truly hung. If they wish to further tighten the noose they made for themselves by appealing the judgment, so be it.

The Fail and a number of other nefarious parties stared Meghan down with the gnarly discovery demands and constant negative articles and tactics. She never flinched. Neither did her husband.
Reply With Quote
  #2053  
Old 02-11-2021, 05:32 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,137
Justice Warby in another part of his judgement seems to regard any assistance given by Knauf or others at KP,in the composing of the letter as minor in the wider scheme of things as he put it. With this judgement IMO it would be difficult for this newspaper group to win on copyright issues.

'An electronic draft of the letter “would inevitably be held to be the product of intellectual creativity sufficient to render it original in the relevant sense and to confer copyright on its author or authors”.

He also found that the MoS’s articles “copied a large and important proportion of the work’s original literary content”.

The issue of whether Meghan was “the sole author”, or whether Jason Knauf, formerly communications secretary to the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, was a “co-author”, should be determined at a trial, despite being something “of minor significance in the overall context”, the judge said.
Reply With Quote
  #2054  
Old 02-11-2021, 05:44 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,498
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
The March hearing is set to determine next steps re the awarding of damages in regard to the issue of copyright ownership, which is the 'shadowy fanciful' defense put forward by the Fail.
Per the judgment, linked in eya's post, the issue of ownership is the one copyright issue which has not been adjudicated and will require a trial to settle.

Damages will certainly be awarded in regards to breach of privacy and infringement of copyright, the issues on which the claimant has been awarded summary judgment. A hypothetical ruling against the claimant on ownership would have the possible effect of "whittling down" the damages awarded (paragraph #167).


Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
The judge instructed the Fail to inform the 4 palace individuals whom the Fail asserted have rights to ownership to make a claim if they so choose.
No, the judge instructed the defendant, Associated Newspapers Limited, to inform anyone it "maintains is or might be entitled to copyright" on the letter that he or she is "entitled to apply to be joined as a claimant or defendant to these proceeding" (paragraph #171).


Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
The judge allowed the Fail a lot of rope in this case even to them getting away with making money off of writing about the case in the early going, and making OTT discovery demands of Meghan and her team.
I am not aware of any restrictions on making money off of writing about a legal case to which the writer is a party, nor did I see any mention in the judgment of "OTT discovery demands". Do you have a source for this?
Reply With Quote
  #2055  
Old 02-11-2021, 05:46 PM
MaiaMia_53's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 1,918
Reading the entire ruling might be helpful. The judge clearly stated that the Fail's decision to publish the letter and to go to 'excessive' lengths in analyzing Meghan's handwriting, etc., was illegal and not in the public interest.

Meghan won the case. The only matters that are outstanding: setting damages; determining whether the Fail is a glutton for punishment (or continue to feel they can make money off of prolonging the inevitable) by attempting to appeal; and clearing up whether anyone will come forward to join the copyright infringement claim.

It is my understanding that a trial would only take place to judge whether anyone else who decides to make a claim actually has a right to claim part ownership of the letter. If affirmative, any such persons would be entitled to a portion of the damages. But I don't think this case is going any further into that 'shadowy, fanciful' netherland.
Reply With Quote
  #2056  
Old 02-11-2021, 05:54 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I am not aware of any restrictions on making money off of writing about a legal case to which the writer is a party, nor did I see any mention in the judgment of "OTT discovery demands". Do you have a source for this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
Reading the entire ruling might be helpful. [...]
I did read the ruling, hence my statement about not seeing any mention of "OTT discovery demands" (or restrictions on writing about the case) in the judgment. If I have overlooked it, I would appreciate having it pointed out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
It is my understanding that a trial would only take place to judge whether anyone else who decides to make a claim actually has a right to claim part ownership of the letter. If affirmative, any such persons would be entitled to a portion of the damages. But I don't think this case is going into that 'shadowy, fanciful' netherland.
The judge ruled that the defendant's arguments on ownership "occupy the
shadowland between improbability and unreality" (166) but "cannot be described as fanciful" (167). As noted in the judgment (13), an entirely "fanciful" case should and would not be permitted to go forward to trial.
Reply With Quote
  #2057  
Old 02-11-2021, 06:06 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,137
Whichever way it is sliced this judgement can't be regarded as anything other than a big win for Meghan and a big loss for the newspaper group. They should not have published any portion of Meghan's letter to her father. That's the crux of the matter.
Reply With Quote
  #2058  
Old 02-11-2021, 06:08 PM
ACO ACO is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
The copyright issue over sole authorship. That could be quite the media hoo ha if the Kensington staff are asked to give evidence and it goes to trial.
I don't see how when the Judge himself said it was a small matter in the grand scheme. He already basically ruled in her favor. It would not be a trial the way you think. Meghan wouldn't have to appear. It would be their lawyers just appearing much like it has been now. Also it more about the damages awards. If members of the KP staff claim copyright (and lets be real, they will not) then it will lower the damagers. That really is all that is left at this point.

The real meat of the case was the privacy and Meghan won on all counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenMathilde View Post
I wouldn't celebrate too soon. The paper is going to appeal.
They can appeal but the the likelihood of them winning it is very slim. The ruling called it unlawful and flat out stated that what they had already presented wasn't enough to convince the judge anything new would change his ruling.

I wouldn't rule out an appeal but my guess they will lick their wound and keep it moving.

Now it is about accessing the damages because apparently Meghan's lawyers are going after a percentage of profits the paper made from the stories about the letter. And since it was quite money this could end up being pricey.

So March 2 will be interesting.
Reply With Quote
  #2059  
Old 02-11-2021, 06:15 PM
MaiaMia_53's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 1,918
Regarding my 'rope' analogy, it's a matter of realizing that according to U.K. law, the copyright facts of the case were always straightforward in favor of Meghan. Therefore, some of the Fail's demands could have been disallowed. But the judge gave a lot of leeway. Some online theorists feel that as a result there's little ground now for any appeal, since practically everything requested by the Fail was allowed. In his ruling on behalf of Meghan for summary judgment, the judge's language in a number of instances is fairly harsh against the Fail.

Again, some people have questioned why the judge allowed some of the discovery demands, which seemed prying and excessive, but to which Meghan fully complied. In fact, the public learned factual information that actually supported Meghan in showing that she had made a number of attempts to help her father come to the wedding. Also that she and Harry had both made numerous attempts to reach her father by phone even after the photo set-up revelations. Those details that were revealed as a result of the Fail's discovery demands, completely contradicted assertions by Markle Sr, published by the Fail, and aired in TV interviews.
Reply With Quote
  #2060  
Old 02-11-2021, 06:29 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,498
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
Regarding my 'rope' analogy, it's a matter of realizing that according to U.K. law, the copyright facts of the case were always straightforward in favor of Meghan. Therefore, some of the Fail's demands could have been disallowed. But the judge gave a lot of leeway. Some online theorists feel that as a result there's little ground now for any appeal, since practically everything requested by the Fail was allowed. In his ruling on behalf of Meghan for summary judgment, the judge's language in a number of instances is fairly harsh against the Fail.
I concur with the assessment that the judge used fairly harsh language in a number of instances - although he never referred to the Mail on Sunday as "the Fail". For that reason, I would expect that he would have been critical of the Mail on Sunday's requests for information if they had been excessive as claimed by the online theorists you refer to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
They should not have published any portion of Meghan's letter to her father.
In practical terms that may be the case, but legally, the judge granted that "making allowance for editorial judgment I conclude that it was legitimate for this purpose to disclose paragraph [15]."
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
#royalrelatives #royalgenes abu dhabi american american history ancestry baby names britannia british british royal family british royals brownbitcoinqueen camilla's family camilla parker bowles carolin china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing clarence house cpr dresses duchess of sussex duke of sussex earl of snowdon edward vii emperor family tree general news thread george vi gradenigo hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume history hochberg house of windsor hypothetical monarchs imperial household jacobite jewellery jewelry kensington palace list of rulers luxembourg maxima monarchy mountbatten names nepal nepalese royal family pless princess alexia (2005 -) princess chulabhorn princess dita princess eugenie princess laurentien princess of orange princess ribha queen elizabeth ii queen victoria resusci anne royal jewels royalty of taiwan russian court dress spain stuart sussex swedish queen thai royal family tradition unfinished portrait united states united states of america welsh


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:04 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×