Harry and Chelsy: Relationship Musings

[Idriel]

And Chelsy Davy "independent"???? How many law school students are out there who can afford to fly back and forth to South Africa from the UK several times a year and for vacations or own a Mercedes?

South Africa is Chelsy's home, it's where her family lives. You'll find that most student go back home whenever their Uni schedule allows it.
If you are trying to paint Chelsy as some jet-setter that accusation has no credibility whatsoever imo considering she wouldn't have possibly got where she is if her life was one long holiday.
There is nothing particularly extravagant about her lifestyle so far. She's been living in run down student gigs and living a pretty ordinary student life.

Her parents are bankrolling her lifestyle. How someone going to law school ... at a less than stellar school ... makes them into this paragon of a struggling working woman is beyond me.

Struggling woman? Where did I say that? Why so melodramatic?
Yes, her parent support her for now because she is a student and most parents who can afford to help their child through Uni do so.
However, she set her sight and might on her own financially rewarding career, meaning that down the line she will have her own source of income.
That is what I meant, in part, by standing on her two feet, and yes, that's called independence. I was also referring to the way she handled her relationship with Harry.

I I'm just not going along with the deification of this girl simply because she's doing like millions of other recent graduates and trying to begin a caree

Deification?
My point is precisely the fact that, despite all of her millions, she chose to do like millions of contemporary women: build an education, a career, follow her goals, use her opportunities to make something of herself.
She is thoroughly modern, not an escapee from a Jane Austin novel waiting around for her man to pop the question.

I am not sorry that she will not be "Princess Harry" she didn´t seem suitable

I didn't think there was anything wrong with her per se but I could not see how she could be content with a position that require you to be little more than a trophy wife.

 

[Mermaid1962]

A trophy wife? Princesses in the UK either do a lot of public work or else get raked over the coals every day.

I didn't think there was anything wrong with her per se but I could not see how she could be content with a position that require you to be little more than a trophy wife.

 

[rmay286]

ABSOLUTELY AND WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE. But I must hold Harry to the same standard. All I can say is I hope both brothers, especially William, enjoy LONG healthy lives.

And Chelsy Davy "independent"???? How many law school students are out there who can afford to fly back and forth to South Africa from the UK several times a year and for vacations or own a Mercedes? Please. Her parents are bankrolling her lifestyle just like Kate Middleton. How someone going to law school ... at a less than stellar school ... makes them into this paragon of a struggling working woman is beyond me.

I'd still argue that Chelsy is on the road to independence, probably more so than Kate, because Kate is working for her parents whereas Chelsy is on the way to developing an independent career. Also, a school can be good even if it's "less than stellar." There are nearly or over 100 universities in Britain, from what I can find, so being ranked 11th isn't that bad. I saw it got a "total score" of 90.2 out of 100, and the lowest university on the list was 45.7, so Leeds is definitely on the top end of the scale.

I have a cousin getting her law degree (not from England, mind you!) and from what I hear, it's very hard work. And you do have to be quite intelligent to pursue a law career. Also, I agree with Idriel's point that Chelsy didn't have to pursue a career or move to London. She comes from a wealthy family; she could have easily chosen a much less challenging degree, maybe some general courses in the arts or humanities. Chelsy obviously has some personal ambition that goes beyond just settling for what's convenient or what people say she should do, and I appreciate that about her. I don't see her as a "paragon of a struggling working woman," but anyone who knows what they want from life and is willing to work hard and sacrifice to achieve it is admirable to me.

 

[Dierna23]

Harry's won her back - but she hates the idea of being a princess. So how long before the royals scare Chelsy off again?

Royal relationships are a Catch-22. Given the public scrutiny they will face, anyone prepared to go out with a member of the Royal Family invites suspicions of being insane or a sycophant.

And you’d only know that a girl wasn’t crazy (or a sycophant) when she said she didn’t want to measure out her days in photocalls and uptight functions.

It’s this unfortunate dynamic that drives the endlessly ricocheting, on-off-on relationship between Prince Harry and Chelsy Davy. The current status is that the couple are back together and don’t mind who knows it.

Read the article: Harry's won her back - but she hates the idea of being a princess. So how long before the royals scare Chelsy off again? | Mail Online

 

[Zonk]

Franky, the article (even though its from the Daily Mail) expressed some of my concerns.

If she loves Harry and decides to marry (with the Queen's permission of course) she needs to be afraid of the British press (who will dissect every aspect of her life, her parents and her brothers life..and you can thru in a grandmother, aunt or uncle or two for good measure).

The Royal Family will not scare Chelsy off. I think the title is deceiving. If she marries Harry she will be the wife to the third in line to the throne and will have royal responsibilities. She will not be able to work in her chosen field so let's not kid ourselves. And she will have to life a royal life in England. Frankly, I don't think she loves him enough to do it. Or perhaps she loves herself too much and that is not a bad thing. In my mind, its better to just end it.

Harry can't change who he is (he is a royal serving in the armed forces and will never live in any place but England) and the sooner she realizes that the better off they both will be.

 

[Dierna23]

But if she doesn't love him enough why would she give their relationship another chance? I mean, she's 24, not a Teenager anymore, so she must know what it means and where it could lead to.
I think as a pretty, wealthy girl she has enough options and contacts to meet someone else who's more suitable to her lifestyle. I'm not sure if I trust these articles too much. On the other hand, Chelsy is only 24 and maybe they take it from the easy side now.

However, I can't deny that I love them as a couple, so I wish them all the best and carefully considered decisions for the future.

 

[Zonk]

Who says they are giving the relationship another chance? The Daily Mail?

From what I have seen thru the Daily Mail and other articles is that they care deeply for each other and enjoy each other's company. Nothing to suggest that they are officially a boyfriend and girlfriend.

And yes, she is 24. And I like the fact that Chelsy is intelligent and independent but she is not right for Harry IMO. Because independence does not work in the Royal Family. And my comment to end it now is based on this....if they do love each other and Chelsy can not reconcile her life to be princess, a card carrying member of the BRF with all the negatives and positives, giving up her law career (of which it appears she has worked hard to obtain) and this is NEVER going to change after FIVE years of dating. Why continue?

 

[Dierna23]

Who says they are giving the relationship another chance? The Daily Mail?

I know that they're not officially a couple again, but to me it pretty looks like that. Just my opinion. Isn't it hard to stay friends if you have been "happily involved"?

And yes, she is 24. And I like the fact that Chelsy is intelligent and independent but she is not right for Harry IMO. Because independence does not work in the Royal Family. And my comment to end it now is based on this....if they do love each other and Chelsy can not reconcile her life to be princess, a card carrying member of the BRF with all the negatives and positives, giving up her law career (of which it appears she has worked hard to obtain) and this is NEVER going to change after FIVE years of dating. Why continue?

Time will tell. I see your points and agree with them. Once she has too decide between her own career and her love to Harry. No doubt. But at the moment it seems - in my humble opinion - as if they can't get away from each other really.

 

[Zonk]

Yes time will tell. Either way, I only wish happiness for all the parties involved.

Honestly I think one of the potential problems with Wiilam and Kate and Harry and Chelsy is the history of Charles and Camilla. Both sons are keenly aware that Charles and Camilla made a connection in their 20's and then lost their way. William and Harry IMO need to realize that just because it happened like that with their father it doesn't necessairly mean that Kate and Chelsy are their soulmates.

But another major problem is that its basically just hard to date when you are Princes of Wales in the millenium, Diana and Charles's sons (with all that baggage) and a rabid press. I mean, look what happened when Harry went out with that Caroline girl. Suddenly she was in the papers, giving the British public a look at her life (warts and all). They already have a small circle and who the heck wants to date with all that press.

It appears to me (cause I don't know) that both boys care for Chelsy and Kate but sometimes I wonder if they just continue to date them (not that they don't care for them) because it easier to do so than find someone new to date.

 

[SLV]

Harry could give up his Royal responsibilities. It would cause an enormous fuss and more, but he could do it.

When in a situation of loving each other dearly, why should it be the women that always have to give up everything?
It's not as if it would be the end of the Monarchy. The English Royal House has William, as well as Beatrice and Eugenie, and the PoW is still very fit too.

In the Dutch Royal Family, several members have actively removed themselves from the direct line of descent (Johan-Friso, and two of princess Margriet's sons). They married without permission from the Government. In the former case, they were forced to do so (because of Princess Mabel's past). In the latter case, they did it purposely and nobody made a fuss.

Now, Harry is third in line, so it would create havoc, but if he and Chelsy really love each other and it is obvious that she would be really unhappy living in England, I would applaud him for doing it.

*let the tomatoes come, I've got a shield*

 

[Zonk]

Well, I don't think that will happen.

No disrespect to the House of Orange (who is my 2nd favorite royal family after the Windsors) but you mentioned why it was easy for the three princes to do so.

Johan-Friso was the third son but at that time the other sons were already married and had at least one child each so the chances of him reaching the throne were slipping. And let's face it...Mabel dating and lying about an ex boyfriend to the government officials is a lot more serious than Chelsy not liking England and not wanting to be a princess.

And the two younger sons of Princess Margriet certainly had no chance to be King but when the line of sucession was an issue for the older two, they did ask permission.

Finally, I think Harry knows his duty. It has been taught to him by The Queen, the Duke of Edinburgh, and Charles and Diana. Most importantly, he is William's anchor and he would NEVER IMO leave William alone to shoulder his future role. Sure William will have his aunts, uncles and his cousins but there is nothing like have your sibiling have your back.

 

[Iluvbertie]

So he should give up his homeland and family etc to make her happy? What if that makes him unhappy - oh well he made her happy even if he was miserable in the process. Sounds like the arguements given for what his father should have done - make his mother happy but be miserable himself but that would be all right.

They have to find a way that makes both of them happy or not attempt it at all.

He can't simply walk away from his responsibilities to the Royal Family, his father, his brother and deny his children their birthright at the same time. At the moment his brother has no children so Harry is William's heir and if anything happened to William than Harry is IT. If Chelsy can't take that then she should walk away and not keep him dangling.

Each royal house has their own way of doing things and the Windsors are amongst the most traditional of all which is part of their strength.

If Chelsy loves him and wants to be his wife then she has to take on board who he is and accept that. If she can't then so be it.

It isn't always the woman by the way - if Dave Clark (Beatrice's boyfriend) is to marry Beatrice then he will have to give up a lot to be her husband, not as much maybe, but still a lot.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I don't think you can compare the dutch boys to Prince Harry. Every situation is different after all.
I think Chelsy with Harry by her side has the capabiltiy to do anything she wants.

 

[Westminster]

I too don't think Harry would leave William alone, but you never know what love will make with a person!!

 

[sophie25]

I get the impession that Harry really loves Africa and would have no problem living there. He also seems to get on with Chelsey's family. At the end of the day the young Royals were born HRH but I'm not sure if it means that much to many of them. In this day and age young people want a nice relaxed atmosphere in whch to live their lives and houses like Sandringham, for example, must seem like museums to some of them. I agree that Chelsey hasn't done all that studying for nothing and that she will return to Africa one day. Harry himself must be aware of this so the fact that he continues to be with her suggests to me that he isn't ruling out that his long term future may lie outside what he is doing and where he is living at present. Also,when you look at the rules that have already been broken in the Royal Family such as the heir to the throne getting divorced and then marrying his also divorced mistress (P.S. this isn't a cue for a Charles/Camilla right/wrong debate I'm only pointing it out as a huge thing that wouldn't have bee allowed to happen in the past) I think it may be fanciful to think that the younger generation will be any better at puting duty before personal happiness than the older one has been. If anything I think the opposite is bound to be true.

 

[Sereta]

They're young. Perhaps they're just biding their time until the right person comes along and they're ready to settle down. Who knows if they're even thinking of marriage right now. They might just enjoy each other's company for now. Same with William.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I still have an inkling that both of these princes have been put off marriage completely by what happened to their mother and wouldn't be a bit surprised if in 20 years we are still having this 'who will they marry' conversations?

 

[branchg]

Assuming The Queen and the Government would consent to a marriage of Chelsy and Harry (something I think is highly doubtful), she would have to be willing to accept her role as royal princess after she married. She's a highly independent, wealthy young lady who is smart and doing well in law school, so she may not want to give up her entire life for the royal family.

Royal marriages are not like a regular marriage and that's just the way it goes.

 

[Roslyn]

I'm not convinced that Harry wouldn't be prepared to relocate to Africa. It may not happen during his grandmother's lifetime, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a long-term relationship with Chelsy culminating in marriage when William is married with children and Charles is King. I could see him living in Africa most of the time and heading Africa-based charities and having a minor role in the RF.

The royal world, like the real world, is changing and can change even more if the people involved want it to.

 

[rmay286]

He can't simply walk away from his responsibilities to the Royal Family, his father, his brother and deny his children their birthright at the same time. At the moment his brother has no children so Harry is William's heir and if anything happened to William than Harry is IT. If Chelsy can't take that then she should walk away and not keep him dangling.

Each royal house has their own way of doing things and the Windsors are amongst the most traditional of all which is part of their strength.

If Chelsy loves him and wants to be his wife then she has to take on board who he is and accept that. If she can't then so be it.

It isn't always the woman by the way - if Dave Clark (Beatrice's boyfriend) is to marry Beatrice then he will have to give up a lot to be her husband, not as much maybe, but still a lot.

This is the age-old problem of royal romance--the conflict between love and duty. I find it kind of fascinating to see how each generation resolves the problem. I agree that walking away from one's royal duties is not the way to resolve the problem. Edward VIII did it and was basically alienated from his country and the rest of his family for the remainder of his life. On the other hand, choosing duty over love doesn't guarantee any kind of happy ending, either. Princess Margaret chose to reject Captain Townsend, but maybe at the expense of a happy ending--she ended up divorcing the man she did marry.

I think that if Chelsy knows she can't give up her freedom, then the kindest thing to do to Harry would be to break up with him permanently. But maybe they really care about each other and think they can "just date" indefinitely.

I was thinking about this, though, and I might be naive, but I think it's possible for even a very independent person to give up some of their freedom in order to marry into the royal family. I see that a little bit in two of the male consorts of the last two centuries, actually--Prince Albert and Prince Philip. I think they both had their own strong ideas and opinions, yet they managed to negotiate a balance between giving up some of their freedom and yet still managing to implement some of their ideas. But they were men...

But I think that it is possible to be royal and still preserve some independence. Charles, for example, voices his political views often enough. Someone who marries into the royal family just has to learn to when it's safe to express their own ideas or pursue their own interests, and when it's better to keep silent. I think this might be something that a slightly older royal bride might understand better than a younger person, who wants complete independence or nothing--rather than recognizing that maybe a balance can be negotiated. I've seen Sarah Ferguson express regret in a lot of her recent interviews that she was too young and wanted her independence too badly when she was royal; she didn't realize it was possible to "play by the rules" and still maintain her self-respect.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Harry and Chelsy in the next few years...

 

[muriel]

Despite the reationship between Harry and Chelsy being on for 5 years, I still think theyare both very young to make any serious decisions of their life together in the long run.

Harry is only 25, and is still largely pursuing his army career, which is still in its early stages. Chelsy is still training to be a lawyer, and if this is her chosen career, she has many years of hard slog ahead of her. Only a very small proportion of the trainees that magc circle law firms (like Allen & Overy) take on are still with the firm 10 years on. It may well be that in 4-5years she decides to that this is not necessarily her chosen career forward.

 

[Opal]

If it's not meant to be due to circumstances (his position and her family) then I hope they are at least mature enough to accept that and just keep the relationship on a "light" level and not get too deeply involved.

 

[iowabelle]

Well, if William decides to procreate, eventually Harry's presence will be required much less, although Chelsy might not want to hang around that long.

But I will say that I am amazed, favorably, that Harry has a rather accomplished young woman as his girlfriend and they have maintained the relationship for quite a long time.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I think Harry would relocate to Africa for Chelsy, I think he would do anything for her.
But I don't think he would leave the UK on his own accord, i don't think he would be the one to intiate the move. He does love the UK, or more specifically his family.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I think Harry would relocate to Africa for Chelsy, I think he would do anything for her.
But I don't think he would leave the UK on his own accord, i don't think he would be the one to intiate the move. He does love the UK, or more specifically his family.

I am not convinced that Harry loves anywhere.

He is the Prince that said that "I don't like England" so I do think that he would leave if he could but his family are there particularly his brother.

Cranmer: Prince Harry: ‘I generally don't like England that much’

 

[Dierna23]

Prince Harry, Chelsy Davy's '9-hour Christmas lovefest in London'

London: Prince Harry and his on-off girlfriend Chelsy Davy have reportedly shared a nine-hour long steamy night at her London pad. Friends have said that the couple is in "the first flush of love again" after deciding to give their troubled relationship another chance.

Read more: Prince Harry, Chelsy Davy's '9-hour Christmas lovefest in London' - dnaindia.com

 

[Patra]

I think Harry and Chelsy are good together, and I wish them happiness, and to follow their hearts first.

 

[Opal]

I like Harry and Chelsy too but Harry is a Prince of Great Britain and I hope he stays in England to fulfill his duties.

 

[Sereta]

Well, if William decides to procreate, eventually Harry's presence will be required much less, although Chelsy might not want to hang around that long.

But I will say that I am amazed, favorably, that Harry has a rather accomplished young woman as his girlfriend and they have maintained the relationship for quite a long time.

Even if William has children it will be awhile before they are old enough to perform royal duties so he needs his brother to help out until then. It's been said that Charles wants to narrow down the core royal family who have an HRH title and carry out duties so Harry will be much needed.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Even if William has children it will be awhile before they are old enough to perform royal duties so he needs his brother to help out until then. It's been said that Charles wants to narrow down the core royal family who have an HRH title and carry out duties so Harry will be much needed.

This was reported 10 or more years ago but it is not said how far he wants to go with stopping the HRH.

Currently there are:

HRH The Duke of Edinburgh - aged 88
HRH The Prince of Wales - aged 61
HRH The Duchess of Cornwall - aged 62/63
HRH Prince William of Wales - aged 27
HRH Prince Harry of Wales - aged 25
HRH The Duke of York - aged 49
HRH Princess Beatrice of York - aged 21
HRH Princess Eugenie of Yord - aged 19
HRH The Earl of Wessex - aged 45
HRH The Countess of Wessex - aged 44
HRH The Princess Royal - aged 59
HRH The Duke of Gloucester - aged 65
HRH The Duchess of Gloucester - aged 63
HRH The Duke of Kent - aged 74
HRH The Duchess of Kent - aged 76
HRH Prince Michael of Kent - aged 67
HRH Princess Michael of Kent - aged 64
HRH Princess Alexandra, The Honourable Lady Oglivy - aged 72 (will turn 73 on Christmas Day)

A total of 18 but of that 18 only 4 are currently under 30 and only another 3 under 50 with only 1 more under 60 so 8/18 are under 60 (with that to only last another 8 or so months).

Natural attrition will cut the number of HRHs over the next 20 years unless William and Harry have large families and I think that 2 is becoming the norm for the British main line royals - particularly in line with the current debate about climate change.

It is perfectly feasible that by the time William becomes King the only HRH's will be his brother, his children, Harry's children and Beatrice and Eugenie but if the HRH is restricted to say the children of the monarch and the grandchildren of the eldest son/child to strip it from Beatrice and Eugenie then Harry's children won't get it either.

I have deliberately not included Lady Louise and Viscount Severn, even though according to the 1917 LPs they are HRH, the advice from the Queen is that at the parent's request they are not using it and therefore I respect the Queen's advice and also do not do so or count them.