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  #1941  
Old 03-15-2020, 11:44 AM
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I'm still of the opinion that what we're going to see is basically going to be the half in, half out that was originally their intent with the difference being that the Sussexes will no longer be actively working for the "Firm".

I think they will hold true to their words and spend a considerable amount of time in the UK at Frogmore Cottage while not only visiting and being part of Harry's family, but also staying true to their British charities and incentives that they already have in place.

I also cannot place blame or point a finger at either Harry or Meghan in
instigating this abrupt change. I do believe it was a decision made jointly by the both of them together as a couple. Neither of them were "coerced" or "influenced" by the other to make these decisions on their lives going into the future. I do think their methods were overly rash and not well thought out and the outcome was not what the Sussexes hoped to accomplish but that is something that they'll just have to live with.

We still do not have any kind of a glimmer into what their future endeavors in North America will involve and probably will not until after the cut off date of March 31st. It will be interesting to watch and see what their plans are and how they hope to incorporate it and what they hope to accomplish. I do think that whatever they do decide to do will reflect the "values upheld by the Queen" as they've stated in their intention.

Makes for interesting times to watch, see what develops and follow this couple as they begin their new lives. I'm looking forward to it.
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  #1942  
Old 03-15-2020, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I'm still of the opinion that what we're going to see is basically going to be the half in, half out that was originally their intent with the difference being that the Sussexes will no longer be actively working for the "Firm".

I think they will hold true to their words and spend a considerable amount of time in the UK at Frogmore Cottage while not only visiting and being part of Harry's family, but also staying true to their British charities and incentives that they already have in place.

I

W
Makes for interesting times to watch, see what develops and follow this couple as they begin their new lives. I'm looking forward to it.
How are they going to make enough money to live and pay their own expenses if they spend half their time in the UK doing charity engagements. Is Meghan relaly going to want to stay here for long periods of time? what about Arhcie, as he grows older... how will this work with his education?
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  #1943  
Old 03-15-2020, 12:15 PM
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The answers to your questions and all the other questions we may have will be answered by one thing. Time.

We may see surprisingly different solutions than we've thought of. Thing is that right now *everything* is pure speculation and maybes. We just have to be patient and wait for some real concrete plans to be released into the public domain of what this couple's plans will entail.

Right now we're in a state of limbo where nothing factual is known.
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  #1944  
Old 03-15-2020, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Precisely. I think that Charles spoiled him.. and he always seemed to me to have a more "outrageous" side than his brother had. Both of them were spoiled - both of them were rather Hooray Henries in youth.. but WIll gradually grew into a steady relationship with Kate.. and marriage and royal life... (IMO Harry could be more unpleasant at times.. but I thought he improved in the army).
And he was free and able to do what he liked within reason for a longer time than Will who had married life, and the oncoming of Royal life to steady him.
I think Harry dreamed at times of "freedom"... He has no idea what life's like outside the RF.. and though he talked about being a park ranger, I suspect he would never have left.. but Meghan's unhappiness and/or her desire to get out to have a freeer life nd make money (it could be boht) pushed Harry to leave. But he's not going to be a park ranger.. He will probably follow M's lead on what they should do to make a living...
You’ve said Charles spoiled William and Harry three times in this thread, so clearly you seem to blame him for any flaws they may have with regards to behavior. Any parent who loses their spouse or co-parent has a very difficult job, and Charles’ was made harder by the fact that he was/is the heir. Generally speaking, the boys have grown into fine men - obviously not perfect, but no one is.

Harry seems to be naive in many ways - perhaps not unexpectedly as he grew up in a Royal fishbowl (or he might see it as a gilded cage). I suspect his expectations of what life will be like outside of the BRF are out of whack with reality as he’s never lived a “real” life. Actually, his life I imagine will be even less than expected due to the Coronavirus. If he’d planned to earn money and make a living out of giving speeches, we’ll thats gone out the window for now.

On another note, I wonder if the BRF might take a page out of the Amish book. There’s a term called Rumspringa (“hopping around”) that describes a kind of freedom that Amish teenagers have (around 16) - a period in which they decode whether to join the Church.

Maybe when the younger Royals destined to be Working Royals become older, say 18-20, they can be granted some sort of freedom to live a more freer life, to decide what if they want to make commitments to the working Royal life. However, it wouldn’t be all fun and games. They’d have to work somewhere, perhaps have an internship, for the period of time.

Quote:
purpose of Rumspringa

Contrary to belief, Amish parents do not “encourage” their youth to leave home and experiment with sinful behaviors—nor do they condone it. At the same time, there must be at least a semblance of free choice in the decision to become Amish. Amish parents may disapprove of their teens’ behaviors, but do not necessarily exercise authority to prevent some of those behaviors.



amish rumspringa youth group
Amish youth play volleyball at Sunday singings
Rumspringa, according to one Amishman who has studied numerous portrayals of the adolescent period, is a time when an Amish youth enters into a more formalized social world, interacting with others in his age group in a variety of settings.

Rather than an angst-filled period of existential choice, it is primarily “a time to find a marriage partner”. As opposed to a sinful exploration of the world, typical Rumspringa activities are much tamer. They may include attending church singings, participating in games and activities with one’s “buddy bunch” or “gang” and of course, dating.
  #1945  
Old 03-15-2020, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
I am not quite sure, contrary to the Crown, that Margaret suffered a great deal being the spare. The people who knew her have said the Crown got that wrong. She suffered because I think she was personality wise a bit unsuited for it. Very bohemian and would have liked a freer life. She was also grander than all the others. She was rather like her uncle in some respects. Andrew I think yes in recent years been a little petulant. Harry has always felt quite constrained by the royal life and he got married and that just did not work out really. It is a great shame because for all that had been said, some of it probably true, Meghan is apparently always professional, prepared and impressive when she does events. It could have been so different and as time stretches on I am struggling to see how the media could be the ones to drive them out. It seems short sighted and bolting like. They were incredibly popular on events. But you know there were also aspects of being bulls in China shops. Even beginning with announcing her pregnancy to the family at Eugenie's wedding...if true a total faux pas. The tiara. The constant speaking true sources and on and on. But it could, have been different because she was good at events. Briefed, informed, charismatic. Sad really.
I don’t think there was any issue w/ Meghan and her wedding tiara - there’s no credible source for that speculation IMO. Likewise the claims that she sought to overshadow Eugenie’s wedding, all of it utter click bait driven tabloid drivel, IMO.
My thoughts aren’t based on the series The Crown, as I haven’t actually watched it, rather, I have read a number of biographies about various members of the royal family. From what I read Margaret was very spoiled, especially by her father King George VI.
I know in British aristocratic circles the first born son is ‘different,’ they inherit the title & the estate, and that must be challenging to some siblings. It is the British way, but it seems so odd to me that by an accident of birth the first born son has a destiny mapped out for him and often the family fortune is his. The RF is different in that in aristocratic families the second son was expected to make his own way & had more freedom, whereas in the RF the second son is expected to forever play second fiddle to his elder brother, always give way to what big brother, the important one, wants, etc..
How successful the arrangement is seems to depend on the personalities involved, Princess Anne is a pragmatic sort and seems to do a magnificent job balancing her personal passion - horses, with supporting her mother and brother. But what would have happened if she had been told she couldn’t indulge her passion for horses & could only do Royal work? King George VI was shy and retiring and thus was happy to be a supporter to his brother David.
Prince Phillip struggled when the time came to give up his naval career & adjust to life supporting his wife so early, but he chose that role when he decided to marry then Princess Elizabeth. As I mentioned, Margaret & Andrew had their struggles.
Nevertheless, I wouldn’t be surprised to see some thawing of both Harry and William’s positions. Perhaps William will come to realize that yes, as future King, he gets the last word, but if he wants his brother to help ease his burden, he needs to bend a little. And perhaps Harry will realize that freedom has its’ price. We shall see.
  #1946  
Old 03-15-2020, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sndral View Post
I don’t think there was any issue w/ Meghan and her wedding tiara - there’s no credible source for that speculation IMO. Likewise the claims that she sought to overshadow Eugenie’s wedding, all of it utter click bait driven tabloid drivel, IMO.
My thoughts aren’t based on the series The Crown, as I haven’t actually watched it, rather, I have read a number of biographies about various members of the royal family. From what I read Margaret was very spoiled, especially by her father King George VI.
I know in British aristocratic circles the first born son is ‘different,’ they inherit the title & the estate, and that must be challenging to some siblings. It is the British way, but it seems so odd to me that by an accident of birth the first born son has a destiny mapped out for him and often the family fortune is his. The RF is different in that in aristocratic families the second son was expected to make his own way & had more freedom, whereas in the RF the second son is expected to forever play second fiddle to his elder brother, always give way to what big brother, the important one, wants, etc..
How successful the arrangement is seems to depend on the personalities involved, Princess Anne is a pragmatic sort and seems to do a magnificent job balancing her personal passion - horses, with supporting her mother and brother. But what would have happened if she had been told she couldn’t indulge her passion for horses & could only do Royal work? King George VI was shy and retiring and thus was happy to be a supporter to his brother David.
Prince Phillip struggled when the time came to give up his naval career & adjust to life supporting his wife so early, but he chose that role when he decided to marry then Princess Elizabeth. As I mentioned, Margaret & Andrew had their struggles.
Nevertheless, I wouldn’t be surprised to see some thawing of both Harry and William’s positions. Perhaps William will come to realize that yes, as future King, he gets the last word, but if he wants his brother to help ease his burden, he needs to bend a little. And perhaps Harry will realize that freedom has its’ price. We shall see.
Spoilt yes but she didn't want to be Queen but my goodness she loved the life.

We will see with Harry but I fear he is one of lives malcontents.
  #1947  
Old 03-15-2020, 02:13 PM
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Personally I don't think William and Harry were that different growing up. They were both spoiled, wild and obnoxiously privileged. We saw people who worked with them both in those years come out and say William was just as bad (maybe worse in some cases) but he was clearly more protected. And understandably so. Harry could be seen as a wreck. William could not be.

I also don't think they were nearly as close in recent years (and I mean pre Meghan) as people thought them to be. I feel it was mostly them putting on a show. They are brothers and they love each other but that doesn't mean they were thick as thieves.

That was the press and their interpretation because that sold. And they needed it to be. But the moment Harry was no longer the third wheel and had his own life.... funny how quick that brotherhood crumbled.

More like there was no longer a reason to fake it. That is how I see it anyways.

That all being said, these people are a family and those dynamics are complicated. Harry wanted out. He is gone. William could too but he also knows he doesn't have much of a choice and he accepted that a long time ago. Hard to know how things would be if the roles were reverse but that is what their accident of birth has dealt them.

Time heals and this current global crisis no doubt has put some other things in perspective.
  #1948  
Old 03-15-2020, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
You’ve said Charles spoiled William and Harry three times in this thread, so clearly you seem to blame him for any flaws they may have with regards to behavior. Any parent who loses their spouse or co-parent has a very difficult job, and Charles’ was made harder by the fact that he was/is the heir. Generally speaking, the boys have grown into fine men - obviously not perfect, but no one is.

Harry seems to be naive in many ways - perhaps not unexpectedly as he grew up in a Royal fishbowl (or he might see it as a gilded cage). I suspect his expectations of what life will be like outside of the BRF are out of whack with reality as he’s never lived a “real” life. Actually, his life I imagine will be even less than expected due to the Coronavirus. If he’d planned to earn money and make a living out of giving speeches, we’ll thats gone out the window for now.

On another note, I wonder if the BRF might take a page out of the Amish book. There’s a term called Rumspringa (“hopping around”) that describes a kind of freedom that Amish teenagers have (around 16) - a period in which they decode whether to join the Church.

Maybe when the younger Royals destined to be Working Royals become older, say 18-20, they can be granted some sort of freedom to live a more freer life, to decide what if they want to make commitments to the working Royal life. However, it wouldn’t be all fun and games. They’d have to work somewhere, perhaps have an internship, for the period of time.
Will and Harry have had gap years, Harry had 10 years in the army, Will had Univeristy and his time as a pilot where he had about 3 or 4 years of working in a service job which was not the army.. But their lives are never going to be the same as "normal people." The only way they can learn in depth is by reading and talking to "ordinary people" and that's not the same either.
I don't blame Charles for their flaws.. their faults are their own. I don't think that he was the wisest parent at times.. He no doubt felt guilty about the broken marriage, his own faults as a husband...and IMO he let them have their own way too much as teenagers and both of them became uncharmingly spoiled Hooray Henries. I think WIlliam matured because of his steady relationship with Kate, and her middle class family... and his doing a relatively ordinary few years in a job. Harry had the army.. but Im not sure it matured him a lot. I think now he is very much under M's influence... and he will probably find it hard to adjust to having to hustle and earn a living....
  #1949  
Old 03-15-2020, 02:58 PM
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Let’s move on from going back and forth about which members said Meghan would never return to the UK. That topic adds nothing to the discussion.

If you wish to continue discussing Charles’ relationship with William and Harry, or their relationship with the Queen, please take it to the BRF relationship thread. Any further off-topic discussions will be deleted.
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  #1950  
Old 03-15-2020, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Are you saying that is why they will come home, botht of them, on a regular basis? To remind everyone of their royal connextions?
I think certain royal events, such as Trooping the Colour, accompanying The Queen to church, etc, are high visibility, low commitment opportunities for the couple to remain visible as royals now that they’re not working members of the royal family.

I don’t think Harry is completely estranged from his family so I do think he’ll come back to see everyone, and to keep Archie in contact with the family, and that Meghan will accompany him at least some of the time. But it’s possible to kill two birds with one stone - there’s no reason they can’t mix family time with self promotion.
  #1951  
Old 03-15-2020, 05:05 PM
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Everybody is talking about how much time the family will spend in the uk. Could I put something in the mix.....90 days...... Inland Revenue.....
  #1952  
Old 03-15-2020, 07:11 PM
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Charlie Van Straubenzee and wife Daisy Jenks welcomed a baby girl named Clover Kitty on February 26th, 2020.
Rumor is that Harry will be godfather.
https://www.marieclaire.co.uk/news/c...r-again-688975
  #1953  
Old 03-15-2020, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I think certain royal events, such as Trooping the Colour, accompanying The Queen to church, etc, are high visibility, low commitment opportunities for the couple to remain visible as royals now that they’re not working members of the royal family.

I don’t think Harry is completely estranged from his family so I do think he’ll come back to see everyone, and to keep Archie in contact with the family, and that Meghan will accompany him at least some of the time. But it’s possible to kill two birds with one stone - there’s no reason they can’t mix family time with self promotion.
Apparently he's going to spend time at Balmoral and also with his father in Scotland.....of course, I'm sure that's a fluid situation given the virus. Generally, though, I agree with you - Trooping the Colour and such are perfect events for Harry and Meghan to return for.
  #1954  
Old 03-15-2020, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Will and Harry have had gap years, Harry had 10 years in the army, Will had Univeristy and his time as a pilot where he had about 3 or 4 years of working in a service job which was not the army.. But their lives are never going to be the same as "normal people." The only way they can learn in depth is by reading and talking to "ordinary people" and that's not the same either.
I don't blame Charles for their flaws.. their faults are their own. I don't think that he was the wisest parent at times.. He no doubt felt guilty about the broken marriage, his own faults as a husband...and IMO he let them have their own way too much as teenagers and both of them became uncharmingly spoiled Hooray Henries. I think WIlliam matured because of his steady relationship with Kate, and her middle class family... and his doing a relatively ordinary few years in a job. Harry had the army.. but Im not sure it matured him a lot. I think now he is very much under M's influence... and he will probably find it hard to adjust to having to hustle and earn a living....
I think the thing that will affect him the most is the loss of the automatic deference and protection he gets as an HRH. People holding doors for him, royal motor pool cars complete with RPO drivers, the bob of a head when he meets someone, the BP smooth staffing of Royal day-to-day. He may not even realize the deference until it is gone. His whole life has been sheltered from the grit. The grit is worrying about money and interviewing potential staffers yourself and discerning if they are Sun reporters undercover. The grit is not knowing that your next "inclusivity" engagement has Sacha Baron Cohen in the room, undercover. The grit is not having between 8 and 12 personal staff to attend to your clothing and laundry and doctor appointments. The grit is having your prestige slightly diminish with every commercial venture.

When Diana lost her RPOs, she endured a lot of heckling and rude comments from the paps who wanted reaction photos. I sense that Harry may be subjecting himself and his family to some rough times.
  #1955  
Old 03-16-2020, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
I

When Diana lost her RPOs, she endured a lot of heckling and rude comments from the paps who wanted reaction photos. I sense that Harry may be subjecting himself and his family to some rough times.
Diana didn't lose her RPOs'. She chose to be without them. Harry will still have RPOs... at least for a time. He will have to get used to something more like normal life.. his choice to take it.
  #1956  
Old 03-16-2020, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
I think the thing that will affect him the most is the loss of the automatic deference and protection he gets as an HRH. People holding doors for him, royal motor pool cars complete with RPO drivers, the bob of a head when he meets someone, the BP smooth staffing of Royal day-to-day. He may not even realize the deference until it is gone. His whole life has been sheltered from the grit. The grit is worrying about money and interviewing potential staffers yourself and discerning if they are Sun reporters undercover. The grit is not knowing that your next "inclusivity" engagement has Sacha Baron Cohen in the room, undercover. The grit is not having between 8 and 12 personal staff to attend to your clothing and laundry and doctor appointments. The grit is having your prestige slightly diminish with every commercial venture.

When Diana lost her RPOs, she endured a lot of heckling and rude comments from the paps who wanted reaction photos. I sense that Harry may be subjecting himself and his family to some rough times.

Harry has never given any sign he cares a pin for all the 'deferences' He has not been sheltered from the grit his whole life. The man was in the military 10 years, he spent time in the theater of war..I think he's used to doing for himself when it comes to opening/shutting doors and the general hum drum of life and since when did he have 8 to 12 ppl attending his laundry and appointments? Really?

Diana chose not to have RPO's unless the boys were with her (they had their own that came along).

Most transitions do have rough edges to them. I think he will most likely do just fine in the end.



LaRae
  #1957  
Old 03-16-2020, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Harry has never given any sign he cares a pin for all the 'deferences' He has not been sheltered from the grit his whole life. The man was in the military 10 years, he spent time in the theater of war..I think he's used to doing for himself when it comes to opening/shutting doors and the general hum drum of life and since when did he have 8 to 12 ppl attending his laundry and appointments? Really?

Diana chose not to have RPO's unless the boys were with her (they had their own that came along).

Most transitions do have rough edges to them. I think he will most likely do just fine in the end.



LaRae
She didn't have a choice about the boys. They were minors and it was required that their RPOs were with them. And if Harry's so easy going, why doesn't he renounce the HRH and the title altogether and be plain Harry Windsor..
  #1958  
Old 03-16-2020, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
She didn't have a choice about the boys. They were minors and it was required that their RPOs were with them. And if Harry's so easy going, why doesn't he renounce the HRH and the title altogether and be plain Harry Windsor..
Harry easy going? I agree he has never been easy going. Highly Strung thoroughbred more like. Nothing would have gone down the way it has if that was true.
  #1959  
Old 03-16-2020, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by poppy7 View Post
Harry easy going? I agree he has never been easy going. Highly Strung thoroughbred more like. Nothing would have gone down the way it has if that was true.
I meant in the sense of not caring about the niceties of titles and how he's addressed or requiring half a dozen staff to do things for him. (not that I would clal him a highly strung thoroughbred myself....)
  #1960  
Old 03-16-2020, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
She didn't have a choice about the boys. They were minors and it was required that their RPOs were with them. And if Harry's so easy going, why doesn't he renounce the HRH and the title altogether and be plain Harry Windsor..
That's what I said...the boys had their own RPO's.

You'd have to ask Harry that. Maybe he wanted to but his father asked him to not do it or to wait.


LaRae
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