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  #501  
Old 08-03-2019, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I absolutely agree with this. While the causes they've chosen to champion are incredibly worthy and admirable, there's far too much of the "do as I say and not as I do" happening and it's a bad look. And, as with all things royal, the look and perception is everything. Championing environmental causes and reduction of carbon footprint is a wonderful thing. Following that up with private jet trips (whether paid for by the Sussexes/BRF or by a friend) smacks of hypocritical smugness. Wanting to connect with ordinary everyday people and, in particular, women is a fabulous thing. Doing a guest editorial stint with an elitist magazine like Vogue and choosing to feature mostly wealthy and well known women reeks of snobbishness, particularly if it's true that this didn't in any way benefit any charity as I've read in recent days. Often these things are much like the cookbook which directly benefited a charity in which the Duchess has been personally involved. However, it appears that no proceeds from the sale of this issue of Vogue are earmarked for charitable dispersion. Wanting to be seen as inclusive, friendly, down to earth, and forward thinking is a terrific thing. However, then making demands such as not being photographed in a public place, refusing to allow the public small things like the name of their dog or the names of their son's godparents or even where he was born then smack of an elitist entitlement. See where I'm going with this?

Overall it's not that the Sussexes are making bad choices with the causes they choose to champion, support, and interact with. They're making poor choices with regard to perception and have certainly often given off a "do as I say and not as I do" look and that's simply bad PR. What they will have to eventually realize is that as a member of the BRF, your public and private lives are blurred and that's just the nature of the beast. You don't get to put on your work persona of saving the planet, super woke, down to earth inclusiveness and then behave completely differently when you're "off duty" because it leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the public and when it boils right down to it, without the support of the public the BRF cease to exist.

It definitely will be interesting to see where things stand with the Sussexes in five or ten years and what kind of public perception is out there then. With any luck they'll have decided that maybe it's acceptable to walk that line between having a private life and still giving those happy little tidbits that keep the public satisfied while still managing to do lots of good work for good causes and following the paths that don't give them that "have my cake and eat it too" feel.
Excellent post.

I do admire Meghan for the various causes she has taken up, but for some reason everything seems to attract adverse publicity. The opposite to what she is trying to achieve. I am not sure if it is her or her staff but it becomes all about Meghan.

With both the cookbook, and smartworks, we have been told all about the secret visits, and although she was pregnant she was still working in the background for months. Meghan allowed herself to become the story, not the cause.

Secret visits should remain secret, that is the whole point of them.

The focus moves which is defeating the purpose, Meghan does not require promotion, it is the cause.

I accept that Meghan shining a light on a project will make a huge difference, but at the moment there appears to be a look at me tendency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
They won't, because it's never only about the cause, but also about them, and not in a royal, but in a celebrity way of doing things.

Charles uses private planes etc but his causes are about his causes and not about him, that's the royal way to do it.
The bread and butter jobs.
Not always the glitzy movie premieres, fashion stuff, surrounding yourself with the famous and important with celebrity attitude.
Somebody said, it's not the causes but the way they approach them. Exactly.
Very good post, it is the cause that is important not the royal. I feel there is an element of competition sneaking in, lets see who can do the best job, raise the most money, have the most followers. That is short term success.
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  #502  
Old 08-03-2019, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by CTchic View Post
Consider the source of this. This dude went on rant saying 'royals don't guest edit magazines' and this ear splitting tirade giving the game away. He knows nothing and is just blustering the usual fan fiction.



https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status...518383617?s=19


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  #503  
Old 08-03-2019, 04:43 AM
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I feel like at the moment at least, whatever Meghan does, she will be the story, not (just) the cause. Could they do things differently, sure but right now she could never confirm any secret visits she did and RRs and us here would take it as gospel and make her the story.
  #504  
Old 08-03-2019, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
I admit when all these snobby rich people get together to give speeches it doesn't necessarily inspire me. But I at least think what Harry is doing is better than Meghan using her name to get a guest spot at Vogue. As for the apparent spotlight on only rich women, I am not a woman's activist so I don't need to see any more spotlights on women especially rich ones.
Who are the only rich women Meghan highlighted? I saw a 16 year old environmental activist. I saw a short person, bringing attention to inclusiveness in the fashion industry. I saw two former refugees. All of these women have used their platforms to highlight good causes. To reduce them to "rich women", imho seems short sighted.

People did notice the project and highlighting Smart Works? And Luminary bakery?
  #505  
Old 08-03-2019, 05:47 AM
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Personally I think highlighting Smart Works - which aims to give women who can't afford it clothes for job interviews - is good, but doing it in Vogue next to glossy adverts for £££££ gowns and dresses is a bit off. I mean I'm sure these women would be happy for clothes from high street brands like M&S, Next, H&M etc. Yes I get some of the people who read Vogue will clearly be interested in clothes so have plenty to give away but the optics to me of the two together doesn't sit 100% comfortably. It feels at times like a way to justify (not just for M but other women) spending thousands on clothes because hey, look we can give them away after a while. Vogue is perceived by many, probably many who have never read it, as somewhat superficial, that clothing is all so important and almost looking down at those who don't have an interest in, or the money to spend on, the latest clothes. So somewhat at odds with a charity helping those who can't afford suits for interviews.

As others have said, nothing H&M promote is bad, they are all worthy causes but the way it is done seems to not quite hit the right mark each time. I mean in the case of Smart Works it may be that ordinary businesswomen reading about it in vogue, seeing Meghan turn up in £££££ clothing to visit it would think it really is only designer clothes they are after and take their less expensive but equally helpful clothing donations elsewhere.
  #506  
Old 08-03-2019, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Personally I think highlighting Smart Works - which aims to give women who can't afford it clothes for job interviews - is good, but doing it in Vogue next to glossy adverts for £££££ gowns and dresses is a bit off. I mean I'm sure these women would be happy for clothes from high street brands like M&S, Next, H&M etc. Yes I get some of the people who read Vogue will clearly be interested in clothes so have plenty to give away but the optics to me of the two together doesn't sit 100% comfortably. It feels at times like a way to justify (not just for M but other women) spending thousands on clothes because hey, look we can give them away after a while. Vogue is perciveed by many, probably many who have never read it, as somewhat superficial, that clothing is all so important and almost looking down at those who don't have an interest in, or the money to spend on, the latest clothes. So somewhat at odds with a charity helping those who can't afford suits for interviews.

As others have said, nothing H&M promote is bad, they are all worthy causes but the way it is done seems to not quite hit the right mark each time.

I agree, the cause is terrific but it all comes over sightly patronising.
It appear Vogue got just as much if not more from this exercise than Smartworks did.

There is also an element and I do not blame Meghan for this but she is being attributed with credit for stuff she didn't actually do. For example designing a line of clothing, no she didnt, she approached the companies ....producing a cookbook, no she promoted the cookbook.
It is the appearance of self promotion that is annoying the general public and taking away from the good stuff.
  #507  
Old 08-03-2019, 06:28 AM
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But Meghan never said that she wrote the cookbook. In fact at the launch she made it clear that it was the women of the Community Kitchens who were the driving force.

Same with the clothes line. It was made clear in the statement made afterwards what she had done, asked for a clothing line to be designed which would benefit SmartWorks.

In spite of this the story in the media was that it was Meghan's cookbook. And there are still outlets today who are promoting the idea that Meghan is starting a clothes line of her own. Twisting the facts and the narrative? I'll say!
  #508  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Personally I think highlighting Smart Works - which aims to give women who can't afford it clothes for job interviews - is good, but doing it in Vogue next to glossy adverts for £££££ gowns and dresses is a bit off. I mean I'm sure these women would be happy for clothes from high street brands like M&S, Next, H&M etc.
Smart Works does have clothes from High Street brands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I mean in the case of Smart Works it may be that ordinary businesswomen reading about it in vogue, seeing Meghan turn up in £££££ clothing to visit it would think it really is only designer clothes they are after and take their less expensive but equally helpful clothing donations elsewhere.
No the ordinary business woman wouldn't think that all because it's quite clear that they aren't only after designer clothes. For example, it states that Marks & Spencer, Jigsaw & John Lewis will be taking part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
I feel there is an element of competition sneaking in, lets see who can do the best job, raise the most money, have the most followers. That is short term success.
On what evidence do you base your feeling?
  #509  
Old 08-03-2019, 07:42 AM
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I agree that itís not always motivating to me when royalty / the wealthy / celebrities work with charities. There is an element of pay / wealth disparity that comes to mind. However, there are other things besides large monetary donations that are key to the success of charities and if their involvement inspires people to make any donation of money or other services or time then it was valuable. I also believe that they have to make a big splash in order to attract the big money donors who may want to be seen.

I think given a choice Harry and Meghan might prefer to live more quietly and still be involved in helping others. Since they cannot, I donít blame them for taking opportunities to highlight people and causes they believe in. At least theyíre doing something that actually might help people that want help. I understand there will never be consensus on methods but shouldnít we always give credit to those who are trying to help people?
  #510  
Old 08-03-2019, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
I agree, the cause is terrific but it all comes over sightly patronising.
It appear Vogue got just as much if not more from this exercise than Smartworks did.

There is also an element and I do not blame Meghan for this but she is being attributed with credit for stuff she didn't actually do. For example designing a line of clothing, no she didnt, she approached the companies ....producing a cookbook, no she promoted the cookbook.
It is the appearance of self promotion that is annoying the general public and taking away from the good stuff.

Meghan's background is totally about Me, Myself & I, the way Hollywood works, which was perfectly fine until she married a BRF prince. But this is not the royal way and they or whoever is advising them should shift focus or it will only get worse. The British people are not a Hollywood audience and royal duty is about the common man on the street first, or at least give the impression that it is.

Right now, they are not modernizing but celebritzing the monarchy, what will be its downfall in the very long run.
  #511  
Old 08-03-2019, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Meghan's background is totally about Me, Myself & I, the way Hollywood works, which was perfectly fine until she married a BRF prince. But this is not the royal way and they or whoever is advising them should shift focus or it will only get worse. The British people are not a Hollywood audience and royal duty is about the common man on the street first, or at least give the impression that it is.

Right now, they are not modernizing but celebritzing the monarchy, what will be its downfall in the very long run.
I've wondered for a long time about where the argument actually lies between the royals and the public anyway. No one is holding a gun to the royal family's head demanding that they be there. If they want privacy and find it all so awful I'm sure that no one in the country would insist that the whole thing continue. In this day and age it's all rather silly anyway to expect one single family to be shoehorned into a certain way of life without choice. I enjoy watching them like many other people but to look at a 6 year old child ie George and tell that child that he HAS to be the future head of state that is obviously unfair both to him and to other people in the country who would rather have a democratically elected one. I feel in the past the royal family didn't kick out at being who they were in the way the younger members do now. The Queen's generation and her parents, aunts and uncles accepted that they traded in certain aspects of their private lives in exchange for the enormous privilege they enjoyed. They didn't go around planting bushes and trees everywhere and hiding the name's of godparents etc because they knew that giving the public access to these things was part if what a royal family is. Now, I'm not criticising those who do these things but it has got to a point where anything the public gets to know about comes across as grudged so I would suggest that if the younger members really don't like it all that much then we should perhaps end the whole set up. They can then go on to have the lives they would prefer and all the constant drama can stop once and for all.
  #512  
Old 08-03-2019, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Meghan's background is totally about Me, Myself & I, the way Hollywood works, which was perfectly fine until she married a BRF prince. But this is not the royal way and they or whoever is advising them should shift focus or it will only get worse. The British people are not a Hollywood audience and royal duty is about the common man on the street first, or at least give the impression that it is.

Right now, they are not modernizing but celebritzing the monarchy, what will be its downfall in the very long run.
I think this is definitely a risk, and something to be concerned about in the long run. I don't agree that this has already happened, however.

I do think that the Sussex team need to get a grip on messaging and on the different social media accounts, and I also think that there needs to be serious consideration as to how each cause/initiative the Sussexes take on fits into their overall objectives. Right now we have some fumbling going on. The Vogue edition had an excellent premise--women making a difference, although we could quibble about the inclusion of people like Jane Fonda--but it's a glitzy, high end fashion magazine, so it ends up being a bit of a mixed message. It's great marketing for Vogue, but aside from that, who is the intended audience? It reads a little elitist.

Couple that with the still unconfirmed attendance at the so called summit, another elitist gathering, and we have a PR week that can best be described as messy. The intent to do good is there, but the messaging is all over the place, and if this is an example of Sara Latham's (sp?) work, I think they might want to give her a shove and hire someone who can see the big picture and stay on message. (Edited to add:) And then take that person's advice, as opposed to trying to cowboy this stuff on their own, which has been one of the criticisms leveled at the Sussexes, that they like to do things their own way and are a bit headstrong. Who knows if that is true, but the lack of cohesion certainly lends a bit of weight to that.
  #513  
Old 08-03-2019, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
But Meghan never said that she wrote the cookbook. In fact at the launch she made it clear that it was the women of the Community Kitchens who were the driving force.

Same with the clothes line. It was made clear in the statement made afterwards what she had done, asked for a clothing line to be designed which would benefit SmartWorks.

In spite of this the story in the media was that it was Meghan's cookbook. And there are still outlets today who are promoting the idea that Meghan is starting a clothes line of her own. Twisting the facts and the narrative? I'll say!
The twisted narrative is partly whatís driving this major backlash against her. Iím not going to get into what else is driving it, but I just wish everyone would just pay attention to the good work, Meghan, is doing and to the issues and causes sheís raising awareness for.

I canít wait for her maternity leave to be over and her official engagements starts back up. Letís just get back to some sanity, please!
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  #514  
Old 08-03-2019, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
I've wondered for a long time about where the argument actually lies between the royals and the public anyway. No one is holding a gun to the royal family's head demanding that they be there. If they want privacy and find it all so awful I'm sure that no one in the country would insist that the whole thing continue. In this day and age it's all rather silly anyway to expect one single family to be shoehorned into a certain way of life without choice. I enjoy watching them like many other people but to look at a 6 year old child ie George and tell that child that he HAS to be the future head of state that is obviously unfair both to him and to other people in the country who would rather have a democratically elected one. I feel in the past the royal family didn't kick out at being who they were in the way the younger members do now. The Queen's generation and her parents, aunts and uncles accepted that they traded in certain aspects of their private lives in exchange for the enormous privilege they enjoyed. They didn't go around planting bushes and trees everywhere and hiding the name's of godparents etc because they knew that giving the public access to these things was part if what a royal family is. Now, I'm not criticising those who do these things but it has got to a point where anything the public gets to know about comes across as grudged so I would suggest that if the younger members really don't like it all that much then we should perhaps end the whole set up. They can then go on to have the lives they would prefer and all the constant drama can stop once and for all.
I believe I am correct in saying that it was the late Queen Mother who said duty is the price we pay for privilege. It still stands today, it is possible to commit to duty and all that it involves and still have a reasonable private life.

You also used the word 'drama' which I put in a post a few weeks ago as every event always appears to turn into a drama. There are lots of good work and intentions but something just always seems to go wrong.
I am not going to rehash previous events but they do need to get a handle on the public face.
  #515  
Old 08-03-2019, 10:20 AM
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and yet another bath confusing messages sent out by the sussex household:

... harry advocating against climate change and meghan highlighting greta thunberg as one of her 'forces of good' yet harry arriving in the ultra exclusive google camp in a private jet, along with 100s of celebrities in private jets, to deliver a message about climate change.

... harry showcasing their concern about social media and mental health, meghan communicating she 'does not read social media' because of its effect, yet asking people who they should follow on their instagram as a 'force for good' and removing any current people they followed.

the double messaging that goes on for them is something out of this world.
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  #516  
Old 08-03-2019, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
I believe I am correct in saying that it was the late Queen Mother who said duty is the price we pay for privilege. It still stands today, it is possible to commit to duty and all that it involves and still have a reasonable private life.
Perfectly said, and yes, it still stands today.
They are there to serve others and not to promote themselves.
They have to do their duty to the public and in return people accept their enormous privileges such as wealth, influence, being role models etc etc
One will not go without the other.
Their duty includes to share important milestones of their private lives without the secrecy or drama that comes along with celebrities who will share as they like or don't like or gain from sharing or giving hints.
Royalty does not work that way, at least not in Britain.
  #517  
Old 08-03-2019, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
I agree, the cause is terrific but it all comes over sightly patronising.
It appear Vogue got just as much if not more from this exercise than Smartworks did.

There is also an element and I do not blame Meghan for this but she is being attributed with credit for stuff she didn't actually do. For example designing a line of clothing, no she didnt, she approached the companies ....producing a cookbook, no she promoted the cookbook.
It is the appearance of self promotion that is annoying the general public and taking away from the good stuff.
Vogue is a magazine that wants to sell their issues. Of course they'll want to profit from this guest edit as well.

Meghan never said, or it has never been implied, that she wrote the cook book, or that she's designing a clothing line. She has never self promoted anything of sort. I don't get where people get this idea from, tbh.
  #518  
Old 08-03-2019, 11:05 AM
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I think the resistance is also not wanting to change the concept of what a royal woman does. A female royal, from where I sit, is expected to smile, look pretty, wear fashionable clothes (but not too expensive, but come on), give a generic speech, cut a ribbon or unveil a plaque, and not to have an opinion. That may have been fine in the queen mother's day or how the more senior royal may operate, but they represent a specific demographic who are familiar with that approach. Times have changed and so has the role of women in society. Women are more active in various facets of life and for the monarchy to stay relevant that should be reflected in the royal house. Meghan, in my opinion, is expanding the traditional roles with taking initiative and using different ways to champion her causes. She is not lobbying members of Parliament to have legislation changed or abolished; nor is she trying to influence how people should vote on local or national affairs; for that would be going into the realm of the political. I like Meghan's approach because it is getting more buzz than it would in the more traditional way, although some level of the attention is unwarranted. But criticism, when fair, comes with the territory when you step outside the box.

I found this story in the Daily Mail a little odd. It's pulling from a Tatler article

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...wife-dead.html

Trophy wife comment aside, it seems like an acknowledgment of change of affluent womens' role in society and what they can do.
  #519  
Old 08-03-2019, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
I think the resistance is also not wanting to change the concept of what a royal woman does. A female royal, from where I sit, is expected to smile, look pretty, wear fashionable clothes (but not too expensive, but come on), give a generic speech, cut a ribbon or unveil a plaque, and not to have an opinion. That may have been fine in the queen mother's day or how the more senior royal may operate, but they represent a specific demographic who are familiar with that approach. Times have changed and so has the role of women in society. Women are more active in various facets of life and for the monarchy to stay relevant that should be reflected in the royal house. Meghan, in my opinion, is expanding the traditional roles with taking initiative and using different ways to champion her causes. She is not lobbying members of Parliament to have legislation changed or abolished; nor is she trying to influence how people should vote on local or national affairs; for that would be going into the realm of the political. I like Meghan's approach because it is getting more buzz than it would in the more traditional way, although some level of the attention is unwarranted.
I think you make some really good points, and only time will tell if the Sussex version of a reboot for the duties of the BRF's women will be a good one or not. I think the problem comes in that once you concentrate on getting "buzz," the corollary is that not all buzz is going to be positive. Diana found that out, and she's just one example. Buzz or public attention is a double-edged sword and it's impossible to completely control it. I do think the Sussex machine could do a much better job in targeting and directing that buzz than they are currently, however.

And all that begs the question over whether "buzz" is all that effective in actually stimulating changes as opposed to just getting on the cover of magazines or showing up frequently on Twitter and Instagram. I'm not sure how much effect being tagged a gazillion times has on people actually getting out and doing something, as opposed to being media warriors. There's a lot of talk and outrage, but how well does that translate to action?
  #520  
Old 08-03-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I think this is definitely a risk, and something to be concerned about in the long run. I don't agree that this has already happened, however.

I do think that the Sussex team need to get a grip on messaging and on the different social media accounts, and I also think that there needs to be serious consideration as to how each cause/initiative the Sussexes take on fits into their overall objectives. Right now we have some fumbling going on. The Vogue edition had an excellent premise--women making a difference, although we could quibble about the inclusion of people like Jane Fonda--but it's a glitzy, high end fashion magazine, so it ends up being a bit of a mixed message. It's great marketing for Vogue, but aside from that, who is the intended audience? It reads a little elitist.

Couple that with the still unconfirmed attendance at the so called summit, another elitist gathering, and we have a PR week that can best be described as messy. The intent to do good is there, but the messaging is all over the place, and if this is an example of Sara Latham's (sp?) work, I think they might want to give her a shove and hire someone who can see the big picture and stay on message. (Edited to add:) And then take that person's advice, as opposed to trying to cowboy this stuff on their own, which has been one of the criticisms leveled at the Sussexes, that they like to do things their own way and are a bit headstrong. Who knows if that is true, but the lack of cohesion certainly lends a bit of weight to that.
You have summed up my concerns for the Sussexes.
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