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  #381  
Old 07-30-2019, 02:45 PM
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  #382  
Old 07-30-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan999 View Post
A while ago Prince Harry spoke about how bad social media is, at the same time as launching their Instagram account. While he is correct that social media can be harmful, and there is nothing wrong with them having an Instagram account, the combination of those events in quick succession was picked up on by the media, and it was unfortunate.

Prince Harry also apparently said something to Jane Goodall about buying preprepared packaged vegetables being a "dirty habit". That is the kind of comment that puts people's backs up and put Harry and Meghan at risk of being labelled out of touch.

In Britain we have become used to royals who smile, wave and visit hospitals. We are not used to royals who tell us how we should be buying our vegetables, and if Harry and Meghan want to restore any kind of public goodwill they would do best to remember that.
I kinda agree with him on both subjects though. I think too many people have far too different expectations of what members of the royal family should do/be. They’re not allowed to be political, yet they are supposed to support certain causes, they are supposed to be more than just talk, but please don’t be out of touch, strive to make the world a better place, but again. don’t be too political. Honestly... this is just confusing.
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  #383  
Old 07-30-2019, 03:38 PM
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Interesting interview on just now on Channel 4's TV News:
https://www.channel4.com/news/bishop...against-racism

Bishop-designate Rose Hudson-Wilkin: ‘Very proud’ of Prince Harry for speaking out against racism
After Meghan Markle faced a backlash in some newspapers for agreeing to guest edit the September issue of Vogue, Prince Harry has spoken frankly in the same magazine about racism and “unconscious bias”.

We speak to the woman about to become the Church of England’s first black female bishop, Rose Hudson-Wilkin.
  #384  
Old 07-30-2019, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fijiro View Post
Prince Charles, future King, has two kids. I think having more children depends on each family's wishes and ability.
Perhaps if Prince Charles's marriage had been happier, he and Diana would have had more children-maybe that girl they both seemed to want. We will never know.

I don't think having 3 children as William & Catherine have is a huge issue--many people choose to only have one or none.

It is Harry and Meghan's choice, if they only want two and are blessed with a second child. (Of course, nature could have other plans and they could have twins the second time.)
  #385  
Old 07-30-2019, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
Well he does practice what he preaches. He married a half-black American woman.

Unconscious bias exists all over even in royal houses throughout Europe. You will have royals make comments like "All people are beautiful!" Yet how much diversity do you really see within royal houses and families throughout Europe.
The message they are unconsciously sending is that it "all people are ok, as long as you don't come into my family".
That is racism!
Not necessarily racism.
People tend to marry within their own social circles; that is true whether they are royals or working class.

I think it is changing slowly, as people now have more common ground on which to meet.
  #386  
Old 07-30-2019, 04:20 PM
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i liked that meghan didn't feature herself in the magazine or, worse, go for a fancy photoshoot in designer wear in the gardens of windsor in vogue - just as her engagement pictures. i liked kate's cover some years ago which were photos taken in her country gear, in an unknown location, but don't think meghan is into the country as much as kate so it would have felt inauthentic to be in vogue in country gear to avoid the backlash of a fancy photoshoot.

my main criticism is that the women meghan decided to highlight are by no means women who need their organisations or activities highlighted. they are celebrities in and of themselves. jacinda ardern, jane fonda, michelle obama, salma hayek, greta thunberg, chimamanda ngozi, christy turligton, gemma chan... hardly unknown personalities. i bet there are a million causes and a million women doing great work who could do with the publicity much more so than any of the above. i bet they have no shortage of organisations pitching for their support in patronages, activities and initiatives which could do with getting media interest as 'the founder of XYZ organisation, supported by meghan in british vogue'. the main puts it nicely:

"They range from a little-known campaigner called Jane Fonda to assorted international models, multi-millionaires and high-profile BAME (Black, Asian and Minority Ethinic) women; nearly all of them beautiful, well-connected and absolutely fabulous in that glossy magazine way.

All of these women are indeed inspiring in their way but they are not exactly running refugee camps or doing shifts in their local hospice at the weekend like millions of less glamorous but unsung heroines quietly toiling away in communities up and down the land.

Jane Fonda doesn’t need the Duchess of Sussex to ‘shine a light’ on her good works while surely eyebrows are being raised over the inclusion of New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern in the list."


i also feel slightly annoyed at the fact that there are no men in the list. fine, vogue is mainly read by women but for the sake of inclusivity the people chosen should reflect our societies.
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  #387  
Old 07-30-2019, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
Interesting interview on just now on Channel 4's TV News:
https://www.channel4.com/news/bishop...against-racism

Bishop-designate Rose Hudson-Wilkin: ‘Very proud’ of Prince Harry for speaking out against racism
After Meghan Markle faced a backlash in some newspapers for agreeing to guest edit the September issue of Vogue, Prince Harry has spoken frankly in the same magazine about racism and “unconscious bias”.

We speak to the woman about to become the Church of England’s first black female bishop, Rose Hudson-Wilkin.
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing
  #388  
Old 07-30-2019, 04:44 PM
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“When, in decades to come, historians look back they will surely designate this day as the day the tide finally turned against global warming.
Or as the beginning of the end of the Royal Family.
One or the other.
Or both.”

Via Andrew Neil Twitter


Highly respected BBC journalist Andrew Neil posted this tweet in response to Harry declaring they’re only having 2 children in order to save the planet.

A lot of people are becoming tired of this constant virtue signalling
  #389  
Old 07-30-2019, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan999 View Post

In Britain we have become used to royals who smile, wave and visit hospitals. We are not used to royals who tell us how we should be buying our vegetables, and if Harry and Meghan want to restore any kind of public goodwill they would do best to remember that.
I agree, I suspect this is exactly the issue some members of the public have with the Sussexes. As an American, I'm an outsider looking in so maybe I'm wrong, but I have the impression the British want a Royal Family that makes them feel good about themselves. They want to see them smiling, waving, showing off their cute little babies, visiting hospitals, supporting the arts & charities, and performing other good works.

In general, calling people's attention to the marginalized can make them uncomfortable - it's a criticism of the social fabric of which they are a part - and therefore it must be done in small doses. As others have pointed out, it can come across as lecturing, especially from an outsider (Meghan), even if that wasn't the intention. It's all about perception.

I admire Meghan very much - and Harry too - they are both very hardworking and genuinely concerned about the marginalized. Their hearts are definitely in the right place. But fair or not, I suspect the public isn't prepared for their style of "activist" royalty, at least for now, however commendable their work is.

I'm not at all sure how they should handle this. Do they keep their heads down, tone down their enthusiasm, and follow a quiet & more traditional royal path, until the public grows used them? Would they be comfortable with that? I really have no idea.

Just my thoughts.
  #390  
Old 07-30-2019, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchessblack View Post
Something for which he acknowledged and apologized for saying. Hopefully he has also learned from it. Which in my interpretation of the quote Harry is saying, acknowledge racist tendencies and make the effort to correct them. Perhaps he is not lecturing but speaking from the experience who is now seeing first hand the many forms of racism.
I agree. And the fact that Harry married Meghan suggests that he certainly has indeed learnt from it (it seems like a rather exaggerated thing to say, but sadly there are still some people in 2019 who won't marry people of colour or minorities because of their own prejudices). I think Harry made those comments towards the soldier out of pure ignorance, and he has clearly learnt and educated himself on the issue. The fact he also apologised alone shows that he regretted the remarks he made and felt guilty about them.
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  #391  
Old 07-30-2019, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
“When, in decades to come, historians look back they will surely designate this day as the day the tide finally turned against global warming.
Or as the beginning of the end of the Royal Family.
One or the other.
Or both.”

Via Andrew Neil Twitter


Highly respected BBC journalist Andrew Neil posted this tweet in response to Harry declaring they’re only having 2 children in order to save the planet.

A lot of people are becoming tired of this constant virtue signalling
Is that what he said exactly? that he wants to have 2 children to save the planet?



“Africa's rapidly growing human population is predicted to more than double by 2050, a staggering increase of three and a half million people per month.
“There is no question that this increase puts wildlife and habitat under enormous pressure. Urbanisation, infrastructure development, cultivation—all good things in themselves, but they will have a terrible impact unless we begin to plan and to take measures now.”- Prince William speaking on population control.


Not trying to start any bickering. This is just to illustrate that it is not just Harry who has spoke on the subject.
  #392  
Old 07-30-2019, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
I agree, I suspect this is exactly the issue some members of the public have with the Sussexes. As an American, I'm an outsider looking in so maybe I'm wrong, but I have the impression the British want a Royal Family that makes them feel good about themselves. They want to see them smiling, waving, showing off their cute little babies, visiting hospitals, supporting the arts & charities, and performing other good works.

In general, calling people's attention to the marginalized can make them uncomfortable - it's a criticism of the social fabric of which they are a part - and therefore it must be done in small doses. As others have pointed out, it can come across as lecturing, especially from an outsider (Meghan), even if that wasn't the intention. It's all about perception.

I admire Meghan very much - and Harry too - they are both very hardworking and genuinely concerned about the marginalized. Their hearts are definitely in the right place. But fair or not, I suspect the public isn't prepared for their style of "activist" royalty, at least for now, however commendable their work is.

I'm not at all sure how they should handle this. Do they keep their heads down, tone down their enthusiasm, and follow a quiet & more traditional royal path, until the public grows used them? Would they be comfortable with that? I really have no idea.

Just my thoughts.
This is beautifully put, Gawin, and has made me think about the role of the monarchy in the UK in a way I never have before.

Meghan has always- admirably, in my opinion- made it clear that her belief is that those in a position of influence should use their position to influence social change for what they personally view as "the better" for society. Harry seems to share that vision. In fact, in their engagement interview, I remember thinking that it seemed that when Harry met Meghan, it finally "clicked" for him how his role could be used for a purpose and that was when his life began to fall into place in his own mind. What a beautiful thing to see.

But the purpose and role of a monarchy is to represent what is, not to be a force for change. Because when the monarchy starts to lead the "change," it inherently means that people would be looking to the monarchy for what that change should be-- and that is exactly what the monarchy is NOT purposed to do. The monarchy must take its lead from the mood, culture, and climate of the people, and not the other way around-- in other words, it must not lead but most be led.

Once it tries to lead, there may-- actually, history shows us there will-- come a day when it chooses a direction in which to lead that the people disagree with-- socially, politically, culturally. Then it will blink and be gone.

I post this here in the Current Events thread to explain my perspective on why some people may cast a side eye at this latest project: not because we don't admire Meghan, her work, or her vision, but because it is a bit at odds with what we see as how exactly the monarchy and its representatives function in UK society. Of course, others' opinions will respectfully differ.
  #393  
Old 07-30-2019, 05:28 PM
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I guess what I am trying to say is - are Meghan and Harry doing anything wrong - no not really.
is there a problem - yes, this much negative coverage means a change in presentation is required at the least.

Gawin - excellent post - I wonder if part of it is that the British public feel that M&H only are in the position they are because of the British people - the monarchy is in a way a public institution - so people don't want people they feel are only in the position they are because of the public telling them how to live their life and how to be better. You are right - the monarchy should take its cue from the public mood to best represent the country, not try to force the country into a position and thinking.
  #394  
Old 07-30-2019, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
I agree, I suspect this is exactly the issue some members of the public have with the Sussexes. As an American, I'm an outsider looking in so maybe I'm wrong, but I have the impression the British want a Royal Family that makes them feel good about themselves. They want to see them smiling, waving, showing off their cute little babies, visiting hospitals, supporting the arts & charities, and performing other good works.

In general, calling people's attention to the marginalized can make them uncomfortable - it's a criticism of the social fabric of which they are a part - and therefore it must be done in small doses. As others have pointed out, it can come across as lecturing, especially from an outsider (Meghan), even if that wasn't the intention. It's all about perception.

I admire Meghan very much - and Harry too - they are both very hardworking and genuinely concerned about the marginalized. Their hearts are definitely in the right place. But fair or not, I suspect the public isn't prepared for their style of "activist" royalty, at least for now, however commendable their work is.

I'm not at all sure how they should handle this. Do they keep their heads down, tone down their enthusiasm, and follow a quiet & more traditional royal path, until the public grows used them? Would they be comfortable with that? I really have no idea.

Just my thoughts.
I too think this is an excellent post.

Just my analogy, but, you have to be close friends with a person before you can criticise them without causing offence. I don't think Meghan and Harry (as a unit, because the old Harry pretty much disappeared on his wedding day) have become "close" enough with the British public to be able to so openly criticise society without causing offence.

Meghan was obviously very keen to throw herself into royal life, which is admirable. I do think a bit more time spent learning about the purpose and role of the royal family in modern day Britain would have been helpful. I'm concerned that she sees Royal and Social Activist as synonymous. She is perhaps inspired by Diana, who could have been described as a Social Activist towards the end of her life, but is forgetting that Diana spent years as an ordinary Royal, building up popularity before daring to openly criticise society. Had Diana started out as a Social Activist I don't think she would have been well received by the public at all.
  #395  
Old 07-30-2019, 06:01 PM
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Meghan's project with the patronage Smart Works. No matter what she keeps going. You go, girl.
  #396  
Old 07-30-2019, 06:02 PM
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I just made an observation regarding the wedding of Louis and Marie Ducruet of Monaco. Marie is bi-racial, her mother is of Asian descent. There were no negative remarks or notations in the media or press or the public; it is quite different to what happened with Harry and Meghan.
.
  #397  
Old 07-30-2019, 06:08 PM
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I think Diana has little to do with what Meghan is doing. She's been involved in 'causes' for a long time before Harry and she's a woman in her mid 30's (when she met Harry) not a teenager with little life experience (when Diana started 'dating' Charles)..of course Diana didn't start out with 'causes' ..she had to grow into that. Meghan joined the family already in full swing in regards to 'causes'.

Charles has been causing offense for years with his comments about the environment etc etc. It seems if anyone is being inspired it is Harry being inspired by his father and now having the confidence or determination to speak out.



LaRae
  #398  
Old 07-30-2019, 06:29 PM
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I hope Gawin and Susan999 will correct me if I misread or misinterpreted their posts, but I think the larger point that was being made was that even Diana, who did move into supporting more controversial causes as she got older, had years of building up public trust and affection before she took on some of those. While Meghan is no stranger to causes, she was a stranger to the British public, and didn't have that backlog of good will and trust. It's an interesting point to ponder, if in Harry and Meghan's eagerness to leverage their position, they went a little too fast. I'll have to think about that one, but I do think it's an interesting perspective.
  #399  
Old 07-30-2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Fijiro View Post
I just made an observation regarding the wedding of Louis and Marie Ducruet of Monaco. Marie is bi-racial, her mother is of Asian descent. There were no negative remarks or notations in the media or press or the public; it is quite different to what happened with Harry and Meghan.
.
That is very much, I think, because it is less of an issue in Europe than in certain segments in USA. - Who may have or see an interest in making this marriage very much about race. - While it is really much more about culture.
And in Europe it is IMO much more about two cultures marrying. The American and the British.
In Britain (and Continental Europe) I dare say that Meghan is seen first and foremost as an American - Who happens also to be bi-racial.
While (again in certain segments in particular) in USA, Meghan is seen as a bi-racial woman who is American.
I.e. an African-American versus an American - who happens to be bi-racial. See the difference?
(Elaboration: While many Americans see themselves as Irish-American, African-American, Native-American etc. Elsewhere they are seen as American - period.)

Having said that it does not mean there isn't racism in Europe, of course there is.
It is just my deep impression that the main objections that some Britons have
against Meghan, are more based in her cultural background (being an American) and her personal background (family) than her racial composition.
To that we may add, trying to change things in a country that prides itself very much on traditions. Something all newbies everywhere should be careful about.

As things are in Europe right now, religion and culture can be an issue! Race much less so.
  #400  
Old 07-30-2019, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
That is very much, I think, because it is less of an issue in Europe than in certain segments in USA. - Who may have or see an interest in making this marriage very much about race. - While it is really much more about culture.
And in Europe it is IMO much more about two cultures marrying. The American and the British.
In Britain (and Continental Europe) I dare say that Meghan is seen first and foremost as an American - Who happens also to be bi-racial.
While (again in certain segments in particular) in USA, Meghan is seen as a bi-racial woman who is American.
I.e. an African-American versus an American - who happens to be bi-racial. See the difference?
(Elaboration: While many Americans see themselves as Irish-American, African-American, Native-American etc. Elsewhere they are seen as American - period.)

Having said that it does not mean there isn't racism in Europe, of course there is.
It is just my deep impression that the main objections that some Britons have
against Meghan, are more based in her cultural background (being an American) and her personal background (family) than her racial composition.
To that we may add, trying to change things in a country that prides itself very much on traditions. Something all newbies everywhere should be careful about.

As things are in Europe right now, religion and culture can be an issue! Race much less so.
The Sussexes but Meghan in particular have received nothing but goodwill from the British public whilst out and about carrying out public engagements. And even though there’s a deluge of untrue narratives via the usual BM quarters about the DoS on an almost daily basis that started from day one, and the narratives are designed to sway people a certain way. The Sussexes are still standing strong in spite of all this and will continue to because the general British public overall have far too much common sense than to fall for the scheming poison pens. And the rational majority are indifferent either way to the RF as a whole. Also, in terms of ordinary trolls going after the couple on social media there is data supported evidence that suggests most are from across the pond.
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