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  #361  
Old 07-30-2019, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoasneeze View Post
It would be an interesting concept, if he and others were allowed growth, learning from their mistakes, and then talking about this growth and learning. I would think that Harry has a lot of knowledge about growing with unconscious and conscious bias, and how to unlearn that. How to change it. It's lifelong growth, actually.
One reason why its pretty much the truth when we state that we learn from our mistakes made.
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  #362  
Old 07-30-2019, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Unconscious bias. This coming from a person who referred to an Asian soldier as a ‘paki’ and ‘raghead’.
Yes it's a very powerful message when someone develops insight & understanding beyond the phrases & unconscious prejudices they absorbed while growing up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
I think it’s time for the Sussexes to stop lecturing as they’re coming across slightly hypocritical.
I haven't seen any evidence of the Sussexes lecturing anyone. It's not like they have a captive audience. The way they're "coming across" is subjective. To you they're "slightly hypocritical" but to me they're using their very privileged positions to champion causes that actually help others, which I find admirable.

We could use the "hypocritical" criticism of all the Royal Family members of course as they promote various charities for the poor, homeless, powerless etc while wearing expensive jewellery/clothes and engaging in very expensive hobbies. Either we call them all out for it or we accept that they're using their positions to benefit others & don't single out any member in particular for doing what they all do.
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  #363  
Old 07-30-2019, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soapstar View Post
I doubt William and Catherine are expected to have a larger family. It's just their preference.

I don't have a problem with Harry's comment in that Jane Goodall interview. It shows that he has grown and changed and that's a good thing.

Though I will say that I wish he had spoken a bit about his own growth and acknowledged how hurtful his past comments have been (I still shake my head when I think of him telling a black man that he didn't "sound black"). Putting that aside, I'm just glad he's speaking out.



Unfortunately his apology was lacking and got a ton of criticism. He apologized, but then stated that the term wasn't used in malice, or as an insult. Which doesn't matter because the terms are offensive and racist. So his apology was exactly the kind of unconscious bias that he's talking about in the Goodall quote.
Agreed. Harry made it clear from his comments re kids that he is referring to him and Meghan. Not that it will stop the agenda from rolling on, but he wasn't talking about others.

And I agree on his comments on racism. Later on in the article, he talks about growing and learning from past mistakes. On the whole, its very clear that Harry has matured and grown a huge amount. Something I applaud because its not something you see often, unfortunately, and definitely not something you see in a public figure generally. Harry has had his mistakes blasted in the public sphere more than most people. I think its been clear he has been on a growth path for a while, well before Meghan. I dont think Meghan would have given him the time of day, prince or not, if he was not already at a certain point of maturity on issues on like this when they met.

And I think that path of growth coupled with seeing in real time the racist reactions and campaign against his wife, and now his son, only crystalized things more for him.

People will tear him apart, nonetheless, and I think he knew that when he made his comments. But its nice to see where he is at given where he was a decade ago. I would love to see him speak more frankly about his personal growth on race myself. Maybe that is to come.


His interview Dr Jane was lovely though. She is a truly inspiring person.
  #364  
Old 07-30-2019, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaira View Post
People will tear him apart, nonetheless, and I think he knew that when he made his comments. But its nice to see where he is at given where he was a decade ago. I would love to see him speak more frankly about his personal growth on race myself. Maybe that is to come.

All of this. Especially the bolded part. I think it's a discussion that would help a lot of people understand their own biases.
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  #365  
Old 07-30-2019, 12:12 PM
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Right On, Harry!
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  #366  
Old 07-30-2019, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaira View Post
..........

And I agree on his comments on racism. Later on in the article, he talks about growing and learning from past mistakes. On the whole, its very clear that Harry has matured and grown a huge amount. Something I applaud because its not something you see often, unfortunately, and definitely not something you see in a public figure generally. Harry has had his mistakes blasted in the public sphere more than most people. I think its been clear he has been on a growth path for a while, well before Meghan. I dont think Meghan would have given him the time of day, prince or not, if he was not already at a certain point of maturity on issues on like this when they met.

And I think that path of growth coupled with seeing in real time the racist reactions and campaign against his wife, and now his son, only crystalized things more for him.

People will tear him apart, nonetheless, and I think he knew that when he made his comments. But its nice to see where he is at given where he was a decade ago. I would love to see him speak more frankly about his personal growth on race myself. Maybe that is to come.

.........
If Harry could bring himself to talk about his own personal journey and growth regarding unexamined bias, I think that would be incredibly powerful, and I hope at some point he feels able to do that. As it is, his past actions--the Nazi uniform, the paki/raghead comments, his non-apology--are the elephant in the living room, and the lens through which all his other, more enlightened comments tend to be viewed. Sometimes what is needed is a simple acknowledgment that the actions were wrong, and a direct apology without any temporizing or excuses. Otherwise, the accusation of hypocrisy has a weight it wouldn't otherwise have.
  #367  
Old 07-30-2019, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchessblack View Post
Perhaps he is not lecturing but speaking from the experience who is now seeing first hand the many forms of racism.
Duchessblack, I agree with you

In the same interview he said:
Quote:
Yes, you undoubtedly get wiser. I think, again, what I’ve noticed in myself, is that life is about evolving. You are continually changing, and if you don’t think that every day is a learning process, then life is going to be very tricky for you.
https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/prin...ber-2019-issue
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCzAp5IhyL4
  #368  
Old 07-30-2019, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Unconscious bias. This coming from a person who referred to an Asian soldier as a ‘paki’ and ‘raghead’.

I think it’s time for the Sussexes to stop lecturing as they’re coming across slightly hypocritical.

Exactly, I have yet to see them practice what they preach to the world.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ish-Vogue.html
  #369  
Old 07-30-2019, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchessblack View Post
This was my thought. Perhaps as the future king, William is expected to have a somewhat larger family?
Prince Charles, future King, has two kids. I think having more children depends on each family's wishes and ability.
  #370  
Old 07-30-2019, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Exactly, I have yet to see them practice what they preach to the world.
Could you elaborate on that statement & give examples of how Harry & Meghan "preach to the world" but don't put what they preach into practice?

I'm interested to know your opinions on this issue because it seems to be a common thread across all members of the royal family for many decades. I'm sure they all do their best 'to practise what they preach' but it's difficult for very rich, very privileged people to do it 100% of the time. To be fair, it's difficult for all of us isn't it? For example, who amongst us isn't against single-use plastic & trying to reduce it while still occasionally finding ourselves with a plastic bottle in our hands?
  #371  
Old 07-30-2019, 01:20 PM
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Showing yet again how much Meghan does behind the scenes. She mentions briefly in her Vogue piece on SmartWorks working with Marks and Spencer, John Lewis and others on a capsule wardrobe for the organization to help ensure consistent sizing and looks.

She is just a truly amazing woman. People call her all kinds of names and accuse her of so much, and yet she works hard and under the radar for her patronages. Just lovely. The whole issue is a joy so far.
  #372  
Old 07-30-2019, 01:24 PM
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I honestly don't understand the need to link such articles from DM that twist from the very title the words of Harry and Meghan... as if Harry would try to snub his brother's choice to have three children in a newspaper...Everyone is entitled to their choice of life and making these choices is not a deliberate condemnation of other people' choices.

...

Meghan had a life, a job before meeting Harry, she did not spend 10 years thinking that she might be a member of the royal family, so of course we know more about her political views and values. I did not mean that as a criticism of Kate, but their situations are just so different.
  #373  
Old 07-30-2019, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Exactly, I have yet to see them practice what they preach to the world.
I have seen them practicing what they "preach" and not only Harry and Meghan. Isn't that the whole basis of the Heads Together campaign for mental health? It combines a campaign to tackle stigma and change the conversation on mental health with fundraising for a series of innovative new mental health services.

In regards to Harry's statements that he uttered a long time ago, he knows *now* that it wasn't a correct thing to say or even think and he's opening up the conversation and remarking just how that "mistake" helped him to realize something in his way of thinking and how he perceived things mentally was not healthy.

Sometimes it takes courage to change oneself and one's thinking but the very first step is actually realizing there's something needed to be changed in the first place. This is what conversations do.

Today I have the thought in my head that I will *not* use a single use plastic bottle and purchase a glass one instead and recycle it. Thanks Lilyflo for bringing it into the conversation.
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  #374  
Old 07-30-2019, 01:46 PM
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Yes, Meghan is truly an amazing person, and has a great work ethic. I hope she is strong enough to overcome all the unwarranted negativity directed towards her.
  #375  
Old 07-30-2019, 01:46 PM
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Aaaand this thread is about to be closed for moderating review in 7-6-5...

This constant bickering is getting boring.

I considered posting something about how the foreign coverage of the Sussexes is changing. From being very positive to now starting to be critical, (including the criticism by foreign royal experts/observers) but to honest I don't dare. The post would only be considered an attack and it will end in a fight and a closed thread. Rather than a serious debate about the PR handling by the Sussexes.
  #376  
Old 07-30-2019, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...mpression=true

A pretty good take from the Telegraph. I think if Meghan truly wanted to be ‘inclusive’ she would have chosen people from across the political spectrum. Maybe even a few men.
I try to not say too much critical of Meghan because of the response it generates, but I totally agree about that she should have chosen a broader range of people across the political spectrum. A person may argue that politics was not the focus of this issue, but the royal family has to be extremely careful to be above politics, so really everything they do has to be considered from a political standpoint. My first question was, why did she not choose Melania Trump to include on the cover also? She is the current first lady of the United States and her program regarding children is the BE BEST campaign which focuses on well-being, online safety, and opioid abuse. I think she qualifies as a Force for Change for that campaign. Many people consider the Trumps to be divisive, but she is no more divisive than Jane Fonda.
  #377  
Old 07-30-2019, 02:18 PM
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Oh my - this sounds wonderful:

Meghan has partnered with Marks & Spencer, John Lewis, Jigsaw & her friend Misha Nonoo to launch a capsule collection of workwear to benefit Smart Works, the nationwide charity that helps unemployed and vulnerable women back into the workplace.

The collection, launching later this year, will sell on a one-for-one basis. “For each item purchased by a customer, one is donated to charity,” Meghan writes in British Vogue “Not only does this allow us to be part of each other’s story, it reminds us we are in it together.” (via Omid Scobie)
  #378  
Old 07-30-2019, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
My first question was, why did she not choose Melania Trump to include on the cover also? She is the current first lady of the United States and her program regarding children is the BE BEST campaign which focuses on well-being, online safety, and opioid abuse. I think she qualifies as a Force for Change for that campaign. Many people consider the Trumps to be divisive, but she is no more divisive than Jane Fonda.
Considering what goes on at the American border with Mexico, choosing Melania would have given massive amount af criticism to Meghan. If there is one couple that’s political it’s the Trumps.

I think it’s hard to be completely a-political. Those who don’t agree with certain causes will play the “it’s too political” trumpcard. As will those who, for whatever reason, dislike the Sussexes. Causes that were never political when any other member of the BRF supported it, all of a sudden are. It’s just really tiresome.
  #379  
Old 07-30-2019, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Exactly, I have yet to see them practice what they preach to the world.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ish-Vogue.html
Well he does practice what he preaches. He married a half-black American woman.

Unconscious bias exists all over even in royal houses throughout Europe. You will have royals make comments like "All people are beautiful!" Yet how much diversity do you really see within royal houses and families throughout Europe.
The message they are unconsciously sending is that it "all people are ok, as long as you don't come into my family".
That is racism!
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  #380  
Old 07-30-2019, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
Could you elaborate on that statement & give examples of how Harry & Meghan "preach to the world" but don't put what they preach into practice?

I'm interested to know your opinions on this issue because it seems to be a common thread across all members of the royal family for many decades. I'm sure they all do their best 'to practise what they preach' but it's difficult for very rich, very privileged people to do it 100% of the time. To be fair, it's difficult for all of us isn't it? For example, who amongst us isn't against single-use plastic & trying to reduce it while still occasionally finding ourselves with a plastic bottle in our hands?
A while ago Prince Harry spoke about how bad social media is, at the same time as launching their Instagram account. While he is correct that social media can be harmful, and there is nothing wrong with them having an Instagram account, the combination of those events in quick succession was picked up on by the media, and it was unfortunate.

Prince Harry also apparently said something to Jane Goodall about buying preprepared packaged vegetables being a "dirty habit". That is the kind of comment that puts people's backs up and put Harry and Meghan at risk of being labelled out of touch.

In Britain we have become used to royals who smile, wave and visit hospitals. We are not used to royals who tell us how we should be buying our vegetables, and if Harry and Meghan want to restore any kind of public goodwill they would do best to remember that.
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