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  #621  
Old 08-12-2019, 08:06 AM
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It's the lack of self awareness that is troubling when royals and the ultra-elite wag their fingers at the rest of us for things like not living green enough, or following influencers on social media. That's a very tricky thing to handle, when they are living lives of conspicuous consumption themselves--private jets, large homes, multiple cars, designer clothing that is worn once or twice, expensive holidays and so on, not to mention Instagram accounts where there is an active attempt to increase the number of followers. Nowhere have I seen an acknowledgment of their own privilege, or their own over consumption of the world's resources. Perhaps in the future that is something that Harry can address, but until then, he will face criticism about hypocrisy.
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  #622  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:24 AM
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There are monuments and religious sites here in the US that are sacred to the Native American/Indigenous People that are being trampled on and defiled by tourists. I completely understand what he’s saying. Instead of honoring sites, it’s all about the selfies. They can’t just admire the site and photograph it. They’ve got do more and it takes away from the significance of the locations.
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  #623  
Old 08-12-2019, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DuchessMia View Post
There are monuments and religious sites here in the US that are sacred to the Native American/Indigenous People that are being trampled on and defiled by tourists. I completely understand what he’s saying. Instead of honoring sites, it’s all about the selfies. They can’t just admire the site and photograph it. They’ve got do more and it takes away from the significance of the locations.
I don't think it's hypocritical to ask people to be mindful of what social media can do. I use social media and I think there's way to much online bullying and too much focus on selfies. That doesn't make me a hypocrite. Same thing with the environment. I try to be more aware of how I live, but I still flew to NYC last year and the year before. I mean, I can't take a bike there. I'm aware of the thin line, but that thin line isn't just for wealthy people. I know someone who went to Malta on a honeymoon. Instead of flying there they drove and took a ferry. It took ages and I'm not convinced it's so much more environmentaly friendly.

I also still believe that while it may seem hypocritical to "normal" people, the wealthy and powerful are often the ones in a position to make a change. Or at least draw awareness to certain issues. If they aren't allowed to speak about this, than who is?
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  #624  
Old 08-12-2019, 11:43 AM
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Speaking out is fine, and can be extremely helpful. I think it's great when royals and celebrities draw attention to important issues. It's the lack of self awareness that's the problem, not just for Harry, but for anyone else with a certain level of privilege, who then instructs others who are less privileged about what they are doing wrong.
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  #625  
Old 08-12-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ista View Post
Speaking out is fine, and can be extremely helpful. I think it's great when royals and celebrities draw attention to important issues. It's the lack of self awareness that's the problem, not just for Harry, but for anyone else with a certain level of privilege, who then instructs others who are less privileged about what they are doing wrong.
But who decides what “a lack of selfawareness” is. What might be enough selfawareness for me, might not be enough for you. I seem to remember Harry admitting he knows quite well just how priviliged he is. Is that enough or does he need to point it out in every talk and every interview. Because that is what it really feels like. And I can’t imagine Meghan (who never grew up wealthy) doesn’t feel priviliged right now. To me, it always felt like they said what they said , because they know they are priviliged. Same for William and Kate.
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  #626  
Old 08-12-2019, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
But who decides what “a lack of selfawareness” is. What might be enough selfawareness for me, might not be enough for you. I seem to remember Harry admitting he knows quite well just how priviliged he is. Is that enough or does he need to point it out in every talk and every interview. Because that is what it really feels like. And I can’t imagine Meghan (who never grew up wealthy) doesn’t feel priviliged right now. To me, it always felt like they said what they said , because they know they are priviliged. Same for William and Kate.
This is very true. For me, extremely wealthy and privileged people flying to an exclusive event on a multitude of private jets, and staying on luxurious private yachts and then talking about carbon loads, environmentalism, and wastefulness is irritating as well as laughable, and shows an annoying lack of self awareness on their part. Your mileage may vary, and that's fair enough.
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  #627  
Old 08-12-2019, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Whether it is hypocrisy or double standards or neither what surprises me is that they keep choosing causes and topics where it is clear the media will and can level those charges at them.

The job of royals is not to make headlines daily thanks to controversy (take note other royals as well) Its a shame we haven't heard so much from Invictus or the National Theatre patronage so much recently (I get Meghan is on mat leave).

There are areas of work where H&M have very good knowledge and are well received and its a shame IMO they don't choose to focus more on those where they can make a real difference.
Harry attended an Invictus event back in May after Archie was born and Meghan has collaborated with Smart Works (her patronage) on a big project with high street British brands.

From what I can see with Meghan, she does not announce the start of a project. She ensures that all is in place before an announcement is made like what she did with the cookbook and the capsule collection with Smart Works. For all we know, she may be doing something big her other patronages. Wait and see.
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  #628  
Old 08-12-2019, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ista View Post
Speaking out is fine, and can be extremely helpful. I think it's great when royals and celebrities draw attention to important issues. It's the lack of self awareness that's the problem, not just for Harry, but for anyone else with a certain level of privilege, who then instructs others who are less privileged about what they are doing wrong.
While I agree with your point generally, Harry in this particular instance was drawing attention to their use of social media causing harm to a group of elites - if anything the people he was addressing are more privileged than he.
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  #629  
Old 08-12-2019, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ista View Post
This is very true. For me, extremely wealthy and privileged people flying to an exclusive event on a multitude of private jets, and staying on luxurious private yachts and then talking about carbon loads, environmentalism, and wastefulness is irritating as well as laughable, and shows an annoying lack of self awareness on their part. Your mileage may vary, and that's fair enough.
I get what you’re saying, and I think for some (perhaps a lot of) wealthy and powerfull people it is hypocritical. But how else are we supposed to make a change if the powerfull can’t get together to discus it. How are we supposed to draw attention to causes like poverty if people Charles, William and Harry aren’t allowed to talk about it. If wealthy people talk about things that affects “normal” people there will always people who find it jarring. Just look at the number of people who tell famous people to shut up if they give their opinion about politics for instance.
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  #630  
Old 08-12-2019, 01:50 PM
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There is no way that anyone on the planet is going to be able to totally go carbon footprint free. Especially those that are in a line of work where travel is a necessity. Even if four people carpool instead of one person in a car, that footprint is still there. Just less of them.

I kind of view the rich and the elite and deep pockets that can and do focus on the problems of our planet in the respect that "in order to make money, you have to spend money" kind of thing. Perhaps sharing flights and yachts did, in fact, cut down on carbon footprints more than everyone with their own flight and own yacht would. The idea is not to totally go carbon footprint free but to conserve the resources.

There's been only one social media craze that I've heard about (then again I don't use it too much) and that had to do with a mess of people descending on Area 51 for some reason. Once again, the purpose was not to tell people not to use social media but to be *aware* of some of the effects that social media can bring about.

I'm sure Sir Richard Branson's expedition to be the first to descend all the way to the bottom of the Great Blue Hole required the use of carbon footprints along the line but the impact it made with that crew making it to the bottom and finding a plastic bottle there was an eye opener for a lot of people that work to raise awareness that our oceans are cesspools of waste in spots.

So, all in all, I don't see using resources and making some carbon footprints as hypocritical at all. I see it as a venture to raise awareness among us all that there are things, big and little, we can do to protect our environment.
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  #631  
Old 08-12-2019, 01:50 PM
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It becomes ridiculous. If we are going to hold the wealthy by that rule then we must also hold the middle class to that rule. So if you are middle class then you would not be allowed to speak on X issues lest you appear hypocritical (or double standard) to those who have even less than you do.

Everyone needs to discuss these issues, not lecture or tell others what they must do, but talk about the issue itself and ways to resolve them without attacking the person.



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  #632  
Old 08-12-2019, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Everyone needs to discuss these issues, not lecture or tell others what they must do, but talk about the issue itself and ways to resolve them without attacking the person.
Its got us talking for a few pages whereas if Harry had never thought of going to Google Camp, we probably wouldn't even realize that the event actually happened in the first place. This year it was all focused on climate change. I see it much like we saw Harry and Meghan at the European premier of the remake of "The Lion King". Perhaps its just me but if Harry and Meghan had not attended and it was made public, I'd never have realized that Disney (organization that I suppose has deep pockets) tacked on the "Protect the Pride" campaign.

I do give those that attended the recent Google Camp kudos for giving of their time and energy and support for causes that affect all of us in one way or another. That's what really matters in the long run.
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  #633  
Old 08-13-2019, 05:25 AM
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I'll just put this here and run...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/96...ions-shouldnt/

IT is with a heavy heart and a fully clutched pearl that I must issue yet another dire weather warning.

Please can Prince Harry and Meghan stop providing us with this absolute gale of nonstop content?

It’s getting ridiculous now — it’s getting unroyal now — that last week alone Meghan announced she was launching a weird clothing line, writing a children’s book about dogs, and had guest-edited the September issue of Vogue, in which she offered advice beyond all kombucha-sniffing parody on “how to pivot from a perspective of frustration . . . to optimism” and “the power of the collective”.

Harry, for his part, travelled to Sicily where he gave a “barefoot” speech at a five-star “Google camp” on climate change.

No one knows whether he could actually feel the humming of the guests’ 114 gas-guzzling private jets through the soles of his feet as he did this, but hopefully fellow climate messiahs Naomi Campbell and Leonardo DiCaprio clapped so hard they drowned it all out.

It wasn’t so much the things that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex did — it was the frequency and unrelenting madness with which they did them.

Personally, I didn’t even mind that Meghan did Vogue. Royals have always done Vogue — it’s what they do.

In the 1930s and 1940s, you could barely stop them licking Vogue’s star photographer Cecil Beaton. In the 1990s, Diana was hardly off the cover.

What’s weird isn’t that Meghan did Vogue, it’s that she did it in such a peculiar, grovelling, faux-humble manner, pretending she didn’t want to appear on the cover for fear of being “boastful” — I think she meant “presumptuous” — while coming across as exactly that (why do one page when you can do 300-plus?).

Instead of doing a cover shoot like predictable old Kate, she’d offered what I’ve come to dread — her opinions.

These include her thoughts on the “food-sharing app Olio”; and her belief that a magazine is “like a beautiful meal”.


I haven't posted the whole article. Certainly there may be an argument that the couple are over exposing themselves and their views.
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  #634  
Old 08-13-2019, 05:31 AM
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Except that Meghan has never announced that she is writing a children's book or books. Nor is she launching a clothing line of her own. The fact is that these were assertions published in tabloids not from BP or the Sussexes. False stories as this particular journalist must have known.
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  #635  
Old 08-13-2019, 05:36 AM
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I'd like some clarification on the rules of posting constant, repetative pieces from the Daily and the Sunny?

I mean we can't discuss the people behind these stories here anyway - no matter how much they are called out and discredited by actual journos. Just search for Wotton's name on Twitter. Just so very embarrassing.

All these stories and opinion pieces say the same. But really it is the writers and the editors they say the most about.
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  #636  
Old 08-13-2019, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Chloep View Post
I'd like some clarification on the rules of posting constant, repetative pieces from the Daily and the Sunny?
If you go further back in the thread you'll find posts by the mods regarding what you ask about.
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  #637  
Old 08-13-2019, 06:50 AM
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The faster we get back to some official royal engagements, the better. It’s time to put these ugly months behind us.
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  #638  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The faster we get back to some official royal engagements, the better. It’s time to put these ugly months behind us.
The summer is always slow with royal news. It used to be negative story after negative story about the Middletons and there was never any ‘quota’ system in place.

If ‘negative’ opinions aren’t allowed then clearly positive opinions can’t be allowed and then where do we go.

The royal family have always attracted comment both fair and unfair. Britain has a fervent tabloid press. Clearly this is a private forum and the owners and moderators can do as they like but I think as long as it’s done in a civil manner all opinions should be welcomed.
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  #639  
Old 08-13-2019, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The summer is always slow with royal news. It used to be negative story after negative story about the Middletons and there was never any ‘quota’ system in place.

If ‘negative’ opinions aren’t allowed then clearly positive opinions can’t be allowed and then where do we go.

The royal family have always attracted comment both fair and unfair. Britain has a fervent tabloid press. Clearly this is a private forum and the owners and moderators can do as they like but I think as long as it’s done in a civil manner all opinions should be welcomed.
What’s happening is pretty unprecedented. I just wanna get back to some sanity. You know - some engagement announcements, some away days, the royal tour and some nice pictures and videos. I’m just over these nasty months.
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  #640  
Old 08-13-2019, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The summer is always slow with royal news. It used to be negative story after negative story about the Middletons and there was never any ‘quota’ system in place.

If ‘negative’ opinions aren’t allowed then clearly positive opinions can’t be allowed and then where do we go.

The royal family have always attracted comment both fair and unfair. Britain has a fervent tabloid press. Clearly this is a private forum and the owners and moderators can do as they like but I think as long as it’s done in a civil manner all opinions should be welcomed.
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
What’s happening is pretty unprecedented. I just wanna get back to some sanity. You know - some engagement announcements, some away days, the royal tour and some nice pictures and videos. I’m just over these nasty months.
Fair point re the slow news period. This year, the focus of the negative comments by the Press seem to be Prince Andrew and H&M.

That said, I don't see the negativity towards H&M recede in the near term. IMO, I think there are two factors at play here:

> There have been a number of missteps on their part (which I shall not go into, as i do not want to derail the thread), and that has led to an erosion of trust. Till that is addressed, I am afraid it will be open season.

> It is clear that H&M are forging a path quite different to the one being pursued by Harry previously. It takes some time for clarity of this role to get established, and for it to get communicated publicly. Till that bigger picture gets communicated, one can expect comment on everything from the value a guest editorship of Vogue, to attending Google events in Sicily, to developing fashion lines in aid of charity, to campaigning to save the environment or protect wildlife.
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