General News about the Sussex Family, Part One: May 2019 - March 2020


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It would be an interesting concept, if he and others were allowed growth, learning from their mistakes, and then talking about this growth and learning. I would think that Harry has a lot of knowledge about growing with unconscious and conscious bias, and how to unlearn that. How to change it. It's lifelong growth, actually.

One reason why its pretty much the truth when we state that we learn from our mistakes made. ?
 
Unconscious bias. This coming from a person who referred to an Asian soldier as a ‘paki’ and ‘raghead’.
Yes it's a very powerful message when someone develops insight & understanding beyond the phrases & unconscious prejudices they absorbed while growing up.

I think it’s time for the Sussexes to stop lecturing as they’re coming across slightly hypocritical.
I haven't seen any evidence of the Sussexes lecturing anyone. It's not like they have a captive audience. The way they're "coming across" is subjective. To you they're "slightly hypocritical" but to me they're using their very privileged positions to champion causes that actually help others, which I find admirable.

We could use the "hypocritical" criticism of all the Royal Family members of course as they promote various charities for the poor, homeless, powerless etc while wearing expensive jewellery/clothes and engaging in very expensive hobbies. Either we call them all out for it or we accept that they're using their positions to benefit others & don't single out any member in particular for doing what they all do.
 
I doubt William and Catherine are expected to have a larger family. It's just their preference.

I don't have a problem with Harry's comment in that Jane Goodall interview. It shows that he has grown and changed and that's a good thing.

Though I will say that I wish he had spoken a bit about his own growth and acknowledged how hurtful his past comments have been (I still shake my head when I think of him telling a black man that he didn't "sound black"). Putting that aside, I'm just glad he's speaking out.



Unfortunately his apology was lacking and got a ton of criticism. He apologized, but then stated that the term wasn't used in malice, or as an insult. Which doesn't matter because the terms are offensive and racist. So his apology was exactly the kind of unconscious bias that he's talking about in the Goodall quote.

Agreed. Harry made it clear from his comments re kids that he is referring to him and Meghan. Not that it will stop the agenda from rolling on, but he wasn't talking about others.

And I agree on his comments on racism. Later on in the article, he talks about growing and learning from past mistakes. On the whole, its very clear that Harry has matured and grown a huge amount. Something I applaud because its not something you see often, unfortunately, and definitely not something you see in a public figure generally. Harry has had his mistakes blasted in the public sphere more than most people. I think its been clear he has been on a growth path for a while, well before Meghan. I dont think Meghan would have given him the time of day, prince or not, if he was not already at a certain point of maturity on issues on like this when they met.

And I think that path of growth coupled with seeing in real time the racist reactions and campaign against his wife, and now his son, only crystalized things more for him.

People will tear him apart, nonetheless, and I think he knew that when he made his comments. But its nice to see where he is at given where he was a decade ago. I would love to see him speak more frankly about his personal growth on race myself. Maybe that is to come.


His interview Dr Jane was lovely though. She is a truly inspiring person.
 
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People will tear him apart, nonetheless, and I think he knew that when he made his comments. But its nice to see where he is at given where he was a decade ago. I would love to see him speak more frankly about his personal growth on race myself. Maybe that is to come.


All of this. Especially the bolded part. I think it's a discussion that would help a lot of people understand their own biases.
 
Right On, Harry! ?
 
..........

And I agree on his comments on racism. Later on in the article, he talks about growing and learning from past mistakes. On the whole, its very clear that Harry has matured and grown a huge amount. Something I applaud because its not something you see often, unfortunately, and definitely not something you see in a public figure generally. Harry has had his mistakes blasted in the public sphere more than most people. I think its been clear he has been on a growth path for a while, well before Meghan. I dont think Meghan would have given him the time of day, prince or not, if he was not already at a certain point of maturity on issues on like this when they met.

And I think that path of growth coupled with seeing in real time the racist reactions and campaign against his wife, and now his son, only crystalized things more for him.

People will tear him apart, nonetheless, and I think he knew that when he made his comments. But its nice to see where he is at given where he was a decade ago. I would love to see him speak more frankly about his personal growth on race myself. Maybe that is to come.

.........

If Harry could bring himself to talk about his own personal journey and growth regarding unexamined bias, I think that would be incredibly powerful, and I hope at some point he feels able to do that. As it is, his past actions--the Nazi uniform, the paki/raghead comments, his non-apology--are the elephant in the living room, and the lens through which all his other, more enlightened comments tend to be viewed. Sometimes what is needed is a simple acknowledgment that the actions were wrong, and a direct apology without any temporizing or excuses. Otherwise, the accusation of hypocrisy has a weight it wouldn't otherwise have.
 
Perhaps he is not lecturing but speaking from the experience who is now seeing first hand the many forms of racism. :neutral:
Duchessblack, I agree with you :flowers:

In the same interview he said:
Yes, you undoubtedly get wiser. I think, again, what I’ve noticed in myself, is that life is about evolving. You are continually changing, and if you don’t think that every day is a learning process, then life is going to be very tricky for you.
https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/prince-harry-jane-goodall-september-2019-issue
 
This was my thought. Perhaps as the future king, William is expected to have a somewhat larger family?

Prince Charles, future King, has two kids. I think having more children depends on each family's wishes and ability.
 
Exactly, I have yet to see them practice what they preach to the world.

Could you elaborate on that statement & give examples of how Harry & Meghan "preach to the world" but don't put what they preach into practice?

I'm interested to know your opinions on this issue because it seems to be a common thread across all members of the royal family for many decades. I'm sure they all do their best 'to practise what they preach' but it's difficult for very rich, very privileged people to do it 100% of the time. To be fair, it's difficult for all of us isn't it? For example, who amongst us isn't against single-use plastic & trying to reduce it while still occasionally finding ourselves with a plastic bottle in our hands?
 
Showing yet again how much Meghan does behind the scenes. She mentions briefly in her Vogue piece on SmartWorks working with Marks and Spencer, John Lewis and others on a capsule wardrobe for the organization to help ensure consistent sizing and looks.

She is just a truly amazing woman. People call her all kinds of names and accuse her of so much, and yet she works hard and under the radar for her patronages. Just lovely. The whole issue is a joy so far.
 
I honestly don't understand the need to link such articles from DM that twist from the very title the words of Harry and Meghan... as if Harry would try to snub his brother's choice to have three children in a newspaper...Everyone is entitled to their choice of life and making these choices is not a deliberate condemnation of other people' choices.

...

Meghan had a life, a job before meeting Harry, she did not spend 10 years thinking that she might be a member of the royal family, so of course we know more about her political views and values. I did not mean that as a criticism of Kate, but their situations are just so different.
 
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Exactly, I have yet to see them practice what they preach to the world.

I have seen them practicing what they "preach" and not only Harry and Meghan. Isn't that the whole basis of the Heads Together campaign for mental health? It combines a campaign to tackle stigma and change the conversation on mental health with fundraising for a series of innovative new mental health services.

In regards to Harry's statements that he uttered a long time ago, he knows *now* that it wasn't a correct thing to say or even think and he's opening up the conversation and remarking just how that "mistake" helped him to realize something in his way of thinking and how he perceived things mentally was not healthy.

Sometimes it takes courage to change oneself and one's thinking but the very first step is actually realizing there's something needed to be changed in the first place. This is what conversations do.

Today I have the thought in my head that I will *not* use a single use plastic bottle and purchase a glass one instead and recycle it. Thanks Lilyflo for bringing it into the conversation. ?
 
Yes, Meghan is truly an amazing person, and has a great work ethic. I hope she is strong enough to overcome all the unwarranted negativity directed towards her.
 
Aaaand this thread is about to be closed for moderating review in 7-6-5...

This constant bickering is getting boring.

I considered posting something about how the foreign coverage of the Sussexes is changing. From being very positive to now starting to be critical, (including the criticism by foreign royal experts/observers) but to honest I don't dare. The post would only be considered an attack and it will end in a fight and a closed thread. Rather than a serious debate about the PR handling by the Sussexes.
 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-fraught-risks/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

A pretty good take from the Telegraph. I think if Meghan truly wanted to be ‘inclusive’ she would have chosen people from across the political spectrum. Maybe even a few men.

I try to not say too much critical of Meghan because of the response it generates, but I totally agree about that she should have chosen a broader range of people across the political spectrum. A person may argue that politics was not the focus of this issue, but the royal family has to be extremely careful to be above politics, so really everything they do has to be considered from a political standpoint. My first question was, why did she not choose Melania Trump to include on the cover also? She is the current first lady of the United States and her program regarding children is the BE BEST campaign which focuses on well-being, online safety, and opioid abuse. I think she qualifies as a Force for Change for that campaign. Many people consider the Trumps to be divisive, but she is no more divisive than Jane Fonda.
 
Oh my - this sounds wonderful:

Meghan has partnered with Marks & Spencer, John Lewis, Jigsaw & her friend Misha Nonoo to launch a capsule collection of workwear to benefit Smart Works, the nationwide charity that helps unemployed and vulnerable women back into the workplace.

The collection, launching later this year, will sell on a one-for-one basis. “For each item purchased by a customer, one is donated to charity,” Meghan writes in British Vogue “Not only does this allow us to be part of each other’s story, it reminds us we are in it together.” (via Omid Scobie)
 
My first question was, why did she not choose Melania Trump to include on the cover also? She is the current first lady of the United States and her program regarding children is the BE BEST campaign which focuses on well-being, online safety, and opioid abuse. I think she qualifies as a Force for Change for that campaign. Many people consider the Trumps to be divisive, but she is no more divisive than Jane Fonda.

Considering what goes on at the American border with Mexico, choosing Melania would have given massive amount af criticism to Meghan. If there is one couple that’s political it’s the Trumps.

I think it’s hard to be completely a-political. Those who don’t agree with certain causes will play the “it’s too political” trumpcard. As will those who, for whatever reason, dislike the Sussexes. Causes that were never political when any other member of the BRF supported it, all of a sudden are. It’s just really tiresome.
 
Exactly, I have yet to see them practice what they preach to the world.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ne-Goodall-Meghans-edition-British-Vogue.html
Well he does practice what he preaches. He married a half-black American woman.

Unconscious bias exists all over even in royal houses throughout Europe. You will have royals make comments like "All people are beautiful!" Yet how much diversity do you really see within royal houses and families throughout Europe.
The message they are unconsciously sending is that it "all people are ok, as long as you don't come into my family".
That is racism!
 
Could you elaborate on that statement & give examples of how Harry & Meghan "preach to the world" but don't put what they preach into practice?

I'm interested to know your opinions on this issue because it seems to be a common thread across all members of the royal family for many decades. I'm sure they all do their best 'to practise what they preach' but it's difficult for very rich, very privileged people to do it 100% of the time. To be fair, it's difficult for all of us isn't it? For example, who amongst us isn't against single-use plastic & trying to reduce it while still occasionally finding ourselves with a plastic bottle in our hands?

A while ago Prince Harry spoke about how bad social media is, at the same time as launching their Instagram account. While he is correct that social media can be harmful, and there is nothing wrong with them having an Instagram account, the combination of those events in quick succession was picked up on by the media, and it was unfortunate.

Prince Harry also apparently said something to Jane Goodall about buying preprepared packaged vegetables being a "dirty habit". That is the kind of comment that puts people's backs up and put Harry and Meghan at risk of being labelled out of touch.

In Britain we have become used to royals who smile, wave and visit hospitals. We are not used to royals who tell us how we should be buying our vegetables, and if Harry and Meghan want to restore any kind of public goodwill they would do best to remember that.
 
@Susan
I'd really like to discuss your post but I'm worried my response might stray outside of the focus designated for this sub-forum. Meanwhile, I'm requesting guidance from the moderators.
 
A while ago Prince Harry spoke about how bad social media is, at the same time as launching their Instagram account. While he is correct that social media can be harmful, and there is nothing wrong with them having an Instagram account, the combination of those events in quick succession was picked up on by the media, and it was unfortunate.

Prince Harry also apparently said something to Jane Goodall about buying preprepared packaged vegetables being a "dirty habit". That is the kind of comment that puts people's backs up and put Harry and Meghan at risk of being labelled out of touch.

In Britain we have become used to royals who smile, wave and visit hospitals. We are not used to royals who tell us how we should be buying our vegetables, and if Harry and Meghan want to restore any kind of public goodwill they would do best to remember that.

I kinda agree with him on both subjects though. I think too many people have far too different expectations of what members of the royal family should do/be. They’re not allowed to be political, yet they are supposed to support certain causes, they are supposed to be more than just talk, but please don’t be out of touch, strive to make the world a better place, but again. don’t be too political. Honestly... this is just confusing.
 
Interesting interview on just now on Channel 4's TV News:
https://www.channel4.com/news/bisho...-prince-harry-for-speaking-out-against-racism

Bishop-designate Rose Hudson-Wilkin: ‘Very proud’ of Prince Harry for speaking out against racism
After Meghan Markle faced a backlash in some newspapers for agreeing to guest edit the September issue of Vogue, Prince Harry has spoken frankly in the same magazine about racism and “unconscious bias”.

We speak to the woman about to become the Church of England’s first black female bishop, Rose Hudson-Wilkin.
 
Prince Charles, future King, has two kids. I think having more children depends on each family's wishes and ability.

Perhaps if Prince Charles's marriage had been happier, he and Diana would have had more children-maybe that girl they both seemed to want. We will never know.

I don't think having 3 children as William & Catherine have is a huge issue--many people choose to only have one or none.

It is Harry and Meghan's choice, if they only want two and are blessed with a second child. (Of course, nature could have other plans and they could have twins the second time.:D)
 
Well he does practice what he preaches. He married a half-black American woman.

Unconscious bias exists all over even in royal houses throughout Europe. You will have royals make comments like "All people are beautiful!" Yet how much diversity do you really see within royal houses and families throughout Europe.
The message they are unconsciously sending is that it "all people are ok, as long as you don't come into my family".
That is racism!

Not necessarily racism.
People tend to marry within their own social circles; that is true whether they are royals or working class.

I think it is changing slowly, as people now have more common ground on which to meet.
 
i liked that meghan didn't feature herself in the magazine or, worse, go for a fancy photoshoot in designer wear in the gardens of windsor in vogue - just as her engagement pictures. i liked kate's cover some years ago which were photos taken in her country gear, in an unknown location, but don't think meghan is into the country as much as kate so it would have felt inauthentic to be in vogue in country gear to avoid the backlash of a fancy photoshoot.

my main criticism is that the women meghan decided to highlight are by no means women who need their organisations or activities highlighted. they are celebrities in and of themselves. jacinda ardern, jane fonda, michelle obama, salma hayek, greta thunberg, chimamanda ngozi, christy turligton, gemma chan... hardly unknown personalities. i bet there are a million causes and a million women doing great work who could do with the publicity much more so than any of the above. i bet they have no shortage of organisations pitching for their support in patronages, activities and initiatives which could do with getting media interest as 'the founder of XYZ organisation, supported by meghan in british vogue'. the main puts it nicely:

"They range from a little-known campaigner called Jane Fonda to assorted international models, multi-millionaires and high-profile BAME (Black, Asian and Minority Ethinic) women; nearly all of them beautiful, well-connected and absolutely fabulous in that glossy magazine way.

All of these women are indeed inspiring in their way but they are not exactly running refugee camps or doing shifts in their local hospice at the weekend like millions of less glamorous but unsung heroines quietly toiling away in communities up and down the land.

Jane Fonda doesn’t need the Duchess of Sussex to ‘shine a light’ on her good works while surely eyebrows are being raised over the inclusion of New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern in the list."


i also feel slightly annoyed at the fact that there are no men in the list. fine, vogue is mainly read by women but for the sake of inclusivity the people chosen should reflect our societies.
 
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Interesting interview on just now on Channel 4's TV News:
https://www.channel4.com/news/bisho...-prince-harry-for-speaking-out-against-racism

Bishop-designate Rose Hudson-Wilkin: ‘Very proud’ of Prince Harry for speaking out against racism
After Meghan Markle faced a backlash in some newspapers for agreeing to guest edit the September issue of Vogue, Prince Harry has spoken frankly in the same magazine about racism and “unconscious bias”.

We speak to the woman about to become the Church of England’s first black female bishop, Rose Hudson-Wilkin.

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing
 
“When, in decades to come, historians look back they will surely designate this day as the day the tide finally turned against global warming.
Or as the beginning of the end of the Royal Family.
One or the other.
Or both.”

Via Andrew Neil Twitter


Highly respected BBC journalist Andrew Neil posted this tweet in response to Harry declaring they’re only having 2 children in order to save the planet.

A lot of people are becoming tired of this constant virtue signalling
 
In Britain we have become used to royals who smile, wave and visit hospitals. We are not used to royals who tell us how we should be buying our vegetables, and if Harry and Meghan want to restore any kind of public goodwill they would do best to remember that.

I agree, I suspect this is exactly the issue some members of the public have with the Sussexes. As an American, I'm an outsider looking in so maybe I'm wrong, but I have the impression the British want a Royal Family that makes them feel good about themselves. They want to see them smiling, waving, showing off their cute little babies, visiting hospitals, supporting the arts & charities, and performing other good works.

In general, calling people's attention to the marginalized can make them uncomfortable - it's a criticism of the social fabric of which they are a part - and therefore it must be done in small doses. As others have pointed out, it can come across as lecturing, especially from an outsider (Meghan), even if that wasn't the intention. It's all about perception.

I admire Meghan very much - and Harry too - they are both very hardworking and genuinely concerned about the marginalized. Their hearts are definitely in the right place. But fair or not, I suspect the public isn't prepared for their style of "activist" royalty, at least for now, however commendable their work is.

I'm not at all sure how they should handle this. Do they keep their heads down, tone down their enthusiasm, and follow a quiet & more traditional royal path, until the public grows used them? Would they be comfortable with that? I really have no idea.

Just my thoughts.
 
Something for which he acknowledged and apologized for saying. Hopefully he has also learned from it. Which in my interpretation of the quote Harry is saying, acknowledge racist tendencies and make the effort to correct them. Perhaps he is not lecturing but speaking from the experience who is now seeing first hand the many forms of racism. :neutral:

I agree. And the fact that Harry married Meghan suggests that he certainly has indeed learnt from it (it seems like a rather exaggerated thing to say, but sadly there are still some people in 2019 who won't marry people of colour or minorities because of their own prejudices). I think Harry made those comments towards the soldier out of pure ignorance, and he has clearly learnt and educated himself on the issue. The fact he also apologised alone shows that he regretted the remarks he made and felt guilty about them.
 
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