Engagement of Prince Harry of Wales and Meghan Markle: November 27, 2017


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She doesn't personally 'write' them. They are written for her - she doesn't have either the time or expertise to 'write' them. She approves them and signs them in person (at the PC meeting). She would tell someone the wording to use other than that which can't be changed e.g. the 'trusty and well-beloved' would be a personal choice and that has varied from some of the posts I have seen for different royals during her reign while other wording has remained the same.
 
I don't even think there is hoopla. We clearly having a fun discussion over it but overall? I don't think most notice or care. I see the folks more in shocked their first names are Henry and Rachel. LMAO.
 
:previous: Thanks. So begs to question... it is because she is American? It is interesting searching "Trusty and well Beloved" and the results that follow in terms how folks are addressed.
 
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ACO said:
:previous: Thanks. So begs to question... it is because she is American? It is interesting searching "Trusty and well Beloved" and the results that follow in terms how how folks are addressed.
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It has to be something like that. I’m thinking because she’s American? Not to slight Americans but I can’t think of anything else.
 
I really think so. Just doing some research and it seems that "our trusty and beloved" is the full phrase. OUR is important there. Also seems "our right trusty and beloved" was used a lot but sinse not as common. I am starting to really think it is due to the fact she is America and not one of them officially therefore not "our
trusty and beloved". No slight to Americans but it is what it is.​
 
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The "Trusty and well beloved" language seems to be boilerplate language, not at all specific to the person it pertains to. I think it must be a cultural/nationality thing. No biggie, and I doubt it has anything to do with how the Queen feels about Meghan.
 
:previous: Sounds like an uncommonly timely dose of most uncommon common sense.
 
For those wondering....

On the formal scroll/Charter for the Wessex Wedding, Sophie is “Our Trusty and Well Beloved Sophie”.

Had to look for something in a storage trunk the other day, had forgotten I’d put some Special Royal magazines in it (it’s Cedar) & the ones covering their Wedding were on top. The very top one, it had the copy of their Charter I’d printed out & stuck inside to keep everything together.

I’m pretty sure it will the same for Meghan.
 
Yes Sophie’s declaration of consent and instrument of consent is the same as Autumn’s and Catherine’s.

In the declaration it uses just her name but in the instrument it uses our trusty and well beloved Sophie.

What was released today for Harry and Meghan uses the same wording in both the declaration and instrument of consent. ‘Rachel Meghan Markle’.

I have no idea why this is. I’m just guessing like everyone else.
 
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No worries Rudolph. Some were wondering about how Sophie was referred to in their Charter, so since it’s only been a day or two since I saw the picture of it, thought I’d answer their question. [emoji4]

Can’t wait to see what Harry & Meghan’s looks like, & not because of all this fuss, but for the designs on it. I’ve only seen The Wessex’s & The Cambridge’s & they truly are works of art. Can’t wait!!
 
The citizenship thing makes the most sense to me. On a strictly official basis having no relation whatsoever to her personal feelings, the Queen would conceivably have no reason to trust in Meghan as Meghan does not have a duty of loyalty to the crown (other than a duty to obey the laws of the realm when present there).

Unfortunately it's so hard to find the actual text of these kinds of things that it's difficult to test this.

Edit: I thought of another type of document that uses this language. This warrant making an Italian an honorary companion of the Order of the Bath is merely "to Captain Ernesto Burzagli," whereas this warrant conferring a substantive MBE on a British citizen is "to Our trusty and well beloved Richard Holway Esquire." Likewise, another honorary honour to a foreigner, merely "to French Kitchener Chang-Him."
 
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Well we have the actual text from Sophie/Edward, Autumn/Peter and Catherine/William and the text is identical. Including ‘our trusty and well beloved’.

We have the text from Meghan/Harry and ‘our trusty and well beloved’ isn’t there.

It has to be the citizenship issue. I can’t think of anything else. Being a divorcee doesn’t make sense as far as ‘trusty’ goes.
 
The citizenship does make the most sense especially if we keep in mind that when the Queen is signing the consent, its as the Queen and not as Harry's grandmother. This is a formal document signed by the monarch.
 
Yes, I'm pretty convinced that it's to do with her citizenship now. So far I've found the text of four warrants conferring honours on foreigners, and several more conferring them on citizens of Commonwealth realms, and all four of the former omit the "trusty and well beloved" while all of the latter include it.

Honorary (Foreigners):
"...to Captain Ernesto Burzagli"
"...to French Kitchener Chang-Him"
"...to..." a name I cannot quite make out, but it goes straight to his name
"...to Yelena Mikhailovna Nemirovskaya"

Substantive (Citizens of Commonwealth realms):
"...to Our trusty and well beloved Richard Holway Esquire"
"...to Our trusty and well beloved Michael Thomas Jackson Esquire"
"...to Our trusty and well beloved Kenneth Lawrence Bandey Esquire"
 
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From an article in today's Daily Express, which is not yet on their website:

"...A source last night
said: “Trusty and
well-beloved is
language reserved for
citizens of the UK or
Her Majesty’s other
realms.” As an
American, Meghan
does not qualify."
 
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:previous:

See how smart we are. Enough digging and debating and we came up with the right answer.

Edit: Tatiana Maria first suggested the citizenship issue so she got the ball rolling.
 
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Well done everyone!!! See....we can have fun, respectful and informative discussions where we all learn from each other!!!!!!!
 
Glad to see it was due to citizenship. That said, beloved and trustworthy better be on Charles and Camilla's consent declaration. I have a feeling someone is going to look for it; and if it's not on it Buckingham Palace better have a good explanation.
 
Rudolph said:
I’m wrong more often than not so :lol: We all learn from each other on here which makes it a great forum
Click to expand...

Thank you for your generosity

I'm posting a link to an article about William's copy of the Instrument from the Royal Family website. It's dated 21 April 2011, when the instrument was made public. It's somewhat confusing. It states the Queen gave her permission "today" (presumably meaning 21 April) but goes on to say it's dated 9 February.

It also states:

"The "Instrument of Consent" features decorative artwork chosen by the artist to represent the groom and bride-to-be.

A white lily represents St. Catherine of Siena, whose feast day falls on April 29th and with whom Miss Middleton shares her name.

Beneath it is a Welsh leek surrounded by Prince William's white three-pronged second in line to the throne label and a tiny red escallop from the Spencer family Arms.

There is also a red dragon - the heraldic symbol of Wales, the UK's floral emblems - the rose, thistle and shamrock - and the Garter belt, Prince William's blue and gold Order of the Garter belt, as well as a large gold E for Elizabeth."

I'm curious to see the artwork chosen for Harry & Meghan.

https://www.royal.uk/her-majesty-qu...rince-william-and-catherine-middleton?page=26
 
For Harry and Meghan's charter:

The American beauty rose - national flower of the US
The grizzly bear - state animal of California.
 
Madame Verseau said:
Glad to see it was due to citizenship. That said, beloved and trustworthy better be on Charles and Camilla's consent declaration. I have a feeling someone is going to look for it; and if it's not on it Buckingham Palace better have a good explanation.
Click to expand...

Declaration of Consent to the marriage of HRH The Prince of Wales and Mrs. C. Parker Bowles

"NOW KNOW YE that We have consented and do by these Presents signify Our Consent to the contracting of Matrimony between Our Most Dearly Beloved Son and Most Faithful Counsellor Charles Philip Arthur George, Prince of Wales, K.G., K.T., G.C.B., O.M., and Our Trusty and Well-Beloved Camilla Rosemary Parker Bowles."
 
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Gawin said:
I can see the headlines now - "QUEEN DOESN'T THINK FOREIGNERS ARE 'TRUSTY' OR 'WELL-BELOVED'"!!!!

?
Click to expand...

Well, one have to respect the fact that Meghan is American and not one of the UK’s subjects or belong to the Commonwealth Nations.

It’s just traditional words. There’s nothing more to it.
 
Iluvbertie said:
She doesn't personally 'write' them. They are written for her - she doesn't have either the time or expertise to 'write' them. She approves them and signs them in person (at the PC meeting). She would tell someone the wording to use other than that which can't be changed e.g. the 'trusty and well-beloved' would be a personal choice and that has varied from some of the posts I have seen for different royals during her reign while other wording has remained the same.
Click to expand...


Generally speaking, there is a standard wording for each type of document. For example, in Letters Patent creating peerages, they use:


  1. "trusty and well-beloved" for a baron.
  2. "right trusty and well-beloved" for a viscount.
  3. "right trusty and entirely beloved" for an earl or marquess.
  4. "right trusty and right entirely beloved" for a duke.
The Queen herself is not involved in drafting the official documents she signs and some documents are not actually signed "by her own hand".
 
Mbruno said:
Generally speaking, there is a standard wording for each type of document. For example, in Letters Patent creating peerages, they use:


  1. "trusty and well-beloved" for a baron.
  2. "right trusty and well-beloved" for a viscount.
  3. "right trusty and entirely beloved" for an earl or marquess.
  4. "right trusty and right entirely beloved" for a duke.
The Queen herself is not involved in drafting the official documents she signs and some documents are not actually signed "by her own hand".
Click to expand...
Fascinating.
Hoe does the permission-thing work exactly?
Does Harry specifically has to ask the Queens permission? And how does that work, are there speciaal ceremonies/ protocols for that?
 
So we’ve seen the Instruments of Consent for Camilla, Catherine, Sophie, Autumn and Meghan.

Meghan’s is the only one that doesn’t contain ‘trusty and well beloved’. Since it can’t be because Meghan is divorced it has to be her nationality.

Reporters are still debating it on Twitter.
 
Tiggersk8 said:
No worries Rudolph. Some were wondering about how Sophie was referred to in their Charter, so since it’s only been a day or two since I saw the picture of it, thought I’d answer their question. [emoji4]

Can’t wait to see what Harry & Meghan’s looks like, & not because of all this fuss, but for the designs on it. I’ve only seen The Wessex’s & The Cambridge’s & they truly are works of art. Can’t wait!!
Click to expand...
Yes the decorative work is amazing. I expect that we'll see some of the same detailed work: ie: the Welsh red dragon repeated. ?
 
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