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  #1281  
Old 03-16-2018, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
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I'm posting a link to an article about William's copy of the Instrument from the Royal Family website. It's dated 21 April 2011, when the instrument was made public. It's somewhat confusing. It states the Queen gave her permission "today" (presumably meaning 21 April) but goes on to say it's dated 9 February.

It also states:

"The "Instrument of Consent" features decorative artwork chosen by the artist to represent the groom and bride-to-be.

A white lily represents St. Catherine of Siena, whose feast day falls on April 29th and with whom Miss Middleton shares her name.

Beneath it is a Welsh leek surrounded by Prince William's white three-pronged second in line to the throne label and a tiny red escallop from the Spencer family Arms.

There is also a red dragon - the heraldic symbol of Wales, the UK's floral emblems - the rose, thistle and shamrock - and the Garter belt, Prince William's blue and gold Order of the Garter belt, as well as a large gold E for Elizabeth."

I'm curious to see the artwork chosen for Harry & Meghan.

https://www.royal.uk/her-majesty-que...dleton?page=26
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  #1282  
Old 03-16-2018, 07:18 AM
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For Harry and Meghan's charter:

The American beauty rose - national flower of the US
The grizzly bear - state animal of California.
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  #1283  
Old 03-16-2018, 07:34 AM
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“Trusty and well-beloved” mystery solved-
https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal...mpression=true

I knew this had to be the reason. Folks don’t have to worry about it anymore. The Queen has fully embraced Meghan.
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  #1284  
Old 03-16-2018, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Glad to see it was due to citizenship. That said, beloved and trustworthy better be on Charles and Camilla's consent declaration. I have a feeling someone is going to look for it; and if it's not on it Buckingham Palace better have a good explanation.
Declaration of Consent to the marriage of HRH The Prince of Wales and Mrs. C. Parker Bowles

"NOW KNOW YE that We have consented and do by these Presents signify Our Consent to the contracting of Matrimony between Our Most Dearly Beloved Son and Most Faithful Counsellor Charles Philip Arthur George, Prince of Wales, K.G., K.T., G.C.B., O.M., and Our Trusty and Well-Beloved Camilla Rosemary Parker Bowles."
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  #1285  
Old 03-16-2018, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
ďTrusty and well-belovedĒ mystery solved-
https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal...mpression=true

I knew this had to be the reason. Folks donít have to worry about it anymore. The Queen has fully embraced Meghan.
I can see the headlines now - "QUEEN DOESN'T THINK FOREIGNERS ARE 'TRUSTY' OR 'WELL-BELOVED'"!!!!

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  #1286  
Old 03-16-2018, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
I can see the headlines now - "QUEEN DOESN'T THINK FOREIGNERS ARE 'TRUSTY' OR 'WELL-BELOVED'"!!!!

Well, one have to respect the fact that Meghan is American and not one of the UKís subjects or belong to the Commonwealth Nations.

Itís just traditional words. Thereís nothing more to it.
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  #1287  
Old 03-16-2018, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
She doesn't personally 'write' them. They are written for her - she doesn't have either the time or expertise to 'write' them. She approves them and signs them in person (at the PC meeting). She would tell someone the wording to use other than that which can't be changed e.g. the 'trusty and well-beloved' would be a personal choice and that has varied from some of the posts I have seen for different royals during her reign while other wording has remained the same.

Generally speaking, there is a standard wording for each type of document. For example, in Letters Patent creating peerages, they use:

  1. "trusty and well-beloved" for a baron.
  2. "right trusty and well-beloved" for a viscount.
  3. "right trusty and entirely beloved" for an earl or marquess.
  4. "right trusty and right entirely beloved" for a duke.
The Queen herself is not involved in drafting the official documents she signs and some documents are not actually signed "by her own hand".
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  #1288  
Old 03-16-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Generally speaking, there is a standard wording for each type of document. For example, in Letters Patent creating peerages, they use:

  1. "trusty and well-beloved" for a baron.
  2. "right trusty and well-beloved" for a viscount.
  3. "right trusty and entirely beloved" for an earl or marquess.
  4. "right trusty and right entirely beloved" for a duke.
The Queen herself is not involved in drafting the official documents she signs and some documents are not actually signed "by her own hand".
Fascinating.
Hoe does the permission-thing work exactly?
Does Harry specifically has to ask the Queens permission? And how does that work, are there speciaal ceremonies/ protocols for that?
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  #1289  
Old 03-16-2018, 10:15 AM
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So we’ve seen the Instruments of Consent for Camilla, Catherine, Sophie, Autumn and Meghan.

Meghan’s is the only one that doesn’t contain ‘trusty and well beloved’. Since it can’t be because Meghan is divorced it has to be her nationality.

Reporters are still debating it on Twitter.
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  #1290  
Old 03-16-2018, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Tiggersk8 View Post
No worries Rudolph. Some were wondering about how Sophie was referred to in their Charter, so since itís only been a day or two since I saw the picture of it, thought Iíd answer their question.

Canít wait to see what Harry & Meghanís looks like, & not because of all this fuss, but for the designs on it. Iíve only seen The Wessexís & The Cambridgeís & they truly are works of art. Canít wait!!
Yes the decorative work is amazing. I expect that we'll see some of the same detailed work: ie: the Welsh red dragon repeated.
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  #1291  
Old 03-16-2018, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
Declaration of Consent to the marriage of HRH The Prince of Wales and Mrs. C. Parker Bowles

"NOW KNOW YE that We have consented and do by these Presents signify Our Consent to the contracting of Matrimony between Our Most Dearly Beloved Son and Most Faithful Counsellor Charles Philip Arthur George, Prince of Wales, K.G., K.T., G.C.B., O.M., and Our Trusty and Well-Beloved Camilla Rosemary Parker Bowles."
ďMost Faithful CounsellorĒ in this case is a reference to Charles being a member of the Privy Council, I suppose.

It is interesting that Camilla still used the name Parker Bowles even though she was already divorced. Why didnít she revert to her maiden name ?
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  #1292  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
ďMost Faithful CounsellorĒ in this case is a reference to Charles being a member of the Privy Council, I suppose.

It is interesting that Camilla still used the name Parker Bowles even though she was already divorced. Why didnít she revert to her maiden name ?
Many women don't. My parents have been divorced since 1983 and two long-term relationships later she still goes by her ex-husband's surname. My stepmother on the other hand never took his name in the first place so no need to change anything back once they divorced... (my dad's lovelife spanning two marriages, 3 countries, a stint as a sailor and loosing his virginity to an aged lady-of-the-night in Colombia, mistresses, 5 kids etc... would make for a very sordid book)
Anyway it's all a matter of personal preference to keep a surname or revert to your old one.
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  #1293  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:09 AM
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Three reporters looked into the "Trusty and Beloved" and it seemed they have finally all got their answer from multiple sources. It is what we suspected -- her nationality. She is American and not a subject of the Queen.

Tweeted from Valentine Low, a reporter for The Times:

"Richard Palmer (reporter for The Daily Express) was right - "trusty and well-beloved" is for the Queen's subjects. Had this from two sources, including the Cabinet Office."
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  #1294  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:21 AM
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Well that’s that then.
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  #1295  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:26 AM
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The wording may have gotten some folks confused, but I still think some are on the lookout for any kind of sign of Meghan being shunned by The Queen and rest of the family. I feel it’s a sad thing.
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  #1296  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:27 AM
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LOL. I've been waiting for royal reporters to finalize the Twitter debate. Rudolph...my hat tip
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  #1297  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The wording may have gotten some folks confused, but I still think some are on the lookout for any kind of sign of Meghan being shunned by The Queen and rest of the family. I feel itís a sad thing.
I donít think anyone thought it was a slight but the BRF is so precise with stuff like wording that most people thought there must be a reason.

As things got narrowed down it was becoming increasingly clear it must be because Meghan is American.

One thing I knew for certain though is there isnít different versions of the consent. The one issued yesterday is it.
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  #1298  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
I donít think anyone thought it was a slight but the BRF is so precise with stuff like wording that most people thought there must be a reason.
There were definitely people that thought it as just that, even on here, as soon as it was mentioned. Look, I never thought it was a big deal either way because I thought the Queen and other members of the family has made it crystal clear on how Meghan is being treated, but from the very onset, there has been discussions about whether or not HMQ would grant permission or accept this relationship.
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  #1299  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:57 AM
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The Queen has never denied permission for anyone to marry during her entire time on the throne. It wasnít going to start with Meghan.
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  #1300  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post


The Queen has never denied permission for anyone to marry during her entire time on the throne. It wasn’t going to start with Meghan.
I never thought she would have any reason to. But there are some that said HMQ would. Just expanded on an point that you made about no one thought the lack of trusty and well-beloved was something against Meghan.
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