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  #1261  
Old 03-15-2018, 09:47 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
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She doesn't personally 'write' them. They are written for her - she doesn't have either the time or expertise to 'write' them. She approves them and signs them in person (at the PC meeting). She would tell someone the wording to use other than that which can't be changed e.g. the 'trusty and well-beloved' would be a personal choice and that has varied from some of the posts I have seen for different royals during her reign while other wording has remained the same.
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  #1262  
Old 03-15-2018, 10:40 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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I don't even think there is hoopla. We clearly having a fun discussion over it but overall? I don't think most notice or care. I see the folks more in shocked their first names are Henry and Rachel. LMAO.
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  #1263  
Old 03-15-2018, 10:43 PM
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Here’s the declaration and instrument of consent for Autumn and Peter. The exact wording as William and Catherine, including trusty and well beloved.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYYHsOrW...jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYYHsOgX...jpg&name=large
  #1264  
Old 03-15-2018, 10:51 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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Thanks. So begs to question... it is because she is American? It is interesting searching "Trusty and well Beloved" and the results that follow in terms how folks are addressed.
  #1265  
Old 03-15-2018, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Thanks. So begs to question... it is because she is American? It is interesting searching "Trusty and well Beloved" and the results that follow in terms how how folks are addressed.
It has to be something like that. Iím thinking because sheís American? Not to slight Americans but I canít think of anything else.
  #1266  
Old 03-15-2018, 10:59 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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I really think so. Just doing some research and it seems that "our trusty and beloved" is the full phrase. OUR is important there. Also seems "our right trusty and beloved" was used a lot but sinse not as common. I am starting to really think it is due to the fact she is America and not one of them officially therefore not "our [right] trusty and beloved". No slight to Americans but it is what it is.
  #1267  
Old 03-15-2018, 11:47 PM
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The "Trusty and well beloved" language seems to be boilerplate language, not at all specific to the person it pertains to. I think it must be a cultural/nationality thing. No biggie, and I doubt it has anything to do with how the Queen feels about Meghan.
  #1268  
Old 03-16-2018, 12:34 AM
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I believe it's because Meghan is not a British subject, unlike Catherine and Autumn (she was a Canadian citizen, thus a British subject).

If you want to see other Declaration of Consent, wiki has them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_..._under_the_Act
  #1269  
Old 03-16-2018, 12:54 AM
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Sounds like an uncommonly timely dose of most uncommon common sense.
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  #1270  
Old 03-16-2018, 02:19 AM
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For those wondering....

On the formal scroll/Charter for the Wessex Wedding, Sophie is ďOur Trusty and Well Beloved SophieĒ.

Had to look for something in a storage trunk the other day, had forgotten Iíd put some Special Royal magazines in it (itís Cedar) & the ones covering their Wedding were on top. The very top one, it had the copy of their Charter Iíd printed out & stuck inside to keep everything together.

Iím pretty sure it will the same for Meghan.
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  #1271  
Old 03-16-2018, 02:32 AM
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Yes Sophie’s declaration of consent and instrument of consent is the same as Autumn’s and Catherine’s.

In the declaration it uses just her name but in the instrument it uses our trusty and well beloved Sophie.

What was released today for Harry and Meghan uses the same wording in both the declaration and instrument of consent. ‘Rachel Meghan Markle’.

I have no idea why this is. I’m just guessing like everyone else.
  #1272  
Old 03-16-2018, 02:56 AM
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Engagement of Prince Harry of Wales and Meghan Markle: November 27, 2017

No worries Rudolph. Some were wondering about how Sophie was referred to in their Charter, so since itís only been a day or two since I saw the picture of it, thought Iíd answer their question.

Canít wait to see what Harry & Meghanís looks like, & not because of all this fuss, but for the designs on it. Iíve only seen The Wessexís & The Cambridgeís & they truly are works of art. Canít wait!!
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  #1273  
Old 03-16-2018, 03:13 AM
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The citizenship thing makes the most sense to me. On a strictly official basis having no relation whatsoever to her personal feelings, the Queen would conceivably have no reason to trust in Meghan as Meghan does not have a duty of loyalty to the crown (other than a duty to obey the laws of the realm when present there).

Unfortunately it's so hard to find the actual text of these kinds of things that it's difficult to test this.

Edit: I thought of another type of document that uses this language. This warrant making an Italian an honorary companion of the Order of the Bath is merely "to Captain Ernesto Burzagli," whereas this warrant conferring a substantive MBE on a British citizen is "to Our trusty and well beloved Richard Holway Esquire." Likewise, another honorary honour to a foreigner, merely "to French Kitchener Chang-Him."
  #1274  
Old 03-16-2018, 03:24 AM
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Well we have the actual text from Sophie/Edward, Autumn/Peter and Catherine/William and the text is identical. Including Ďour trusty and well belovedí.

We have the text from Meghan/Harry and Ďour trusty and well belovedí isnít there.

It has to be the citizenship issue. I canít think of anything else. Being a divorcee doesnít make sense as far as Ďtrustyí goes.
  #1275  
Old 03-16-2018, 03:43 AM
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The citizenship does make the most sense especially if we keep in mind that when the Queen is signing the consent, its as the Queen and not as Harry's grandmother. This is a formal document signed by the monarch.
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  #1276  
Old 03-16-2018, 03:43 AM
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Yes, I'm pretty convinced that it's to do with her citizenship now. So far I've found the text of four warrants conferring honours on foreigners, and several more conferring them on citizens of Commonwealth realms, and all four of the former omit the "trusty and well beloved" while all of the latter include it.

Honorary (Foreigners):
"...to Captain Ernesto Burzagli"
"...to French Kitchener Chang-Him"
"...to..." a name I cannot quite make out, but it goes straight to his name
"...to Yelena Mikhailovna Nemirovskaya"

Substantive (Citizens of Commonwealth realms):
"...to Our trusty and well beloved Richard Holway Esquire"
"...to Our trusty and well beloved Michael Thomas Jackson Esquire"
"...to Our trusty and well beloved Kenneth Lawrence Bandey Esquire"
  #1277  
Old 03-16-2018, 04:28 AM
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From an article in today's Daily Express, which is not yet on their website:

"...A source last night
said: “Trusty and
well-beloved is
language reserved for
citizens of the UK or
Her Majesty’s other
realms.” As an
American, Meghan
does not qualify."
  #1278  
Old 03-16-2018, 04:33 AM
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See how smart we are. Enough digging and debating and we came up with the right answer.

Edit: Tatiana Maria first suggested the citizenship issue so she got the ball rolling.
  #1279  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:58 AM
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Well done everyone!!! See....we can have fun, respectful and informative discussions where we all learn from each other!!!!!!!
  #1280  
Old 03-16-2018, 07:07 AM
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Glad to see it was due to citizenship. That said, beloved and trustworthy better be on Charles and Camilla's consent declaration. I have a feeling someone is going to look for it; and if it's not on it Buckingham Palace better have a good explanation.
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