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  #1221  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:03 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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Well if some think the Queen secretly hates Meghan or something then that's their right. I don't think that's the case but it is what it is. Do we know what was on Edward and Sophie's or Andrew and Fergie out of curiosity?
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  #1222  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Harryís Instrument of Consent was already released today. Thatís it.
No it's not. We're comparing apples to oranges.

This is the OFFICIAL copy (the apple) which matches William and Kate's official copy.

It is NOT Harry's more elaborate and decorative copy (the orange) which will be his to keep and won't be released until days before his wedding.

If Harry and Meghan's orange doesn't match William and Kate's THEN we can debate this.
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  #1223  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
It's interesting some are trying to make an issue out of few words and trying to use that as an indication of the Queen's feelings towards Meghan. The Queen has made her feelings regarding Meghan plenty clear by including in events that has not included fiances or fiancees in the past both as family and in official events.
Sophie was included in family/official events way before her wedding to Edward (the decommissioning ceremony for "Britannia" in 1997 for exemple).
But yes i agree, Meghan is now part of the family in all but name.

About the adjectives, the theory about Meghan not being a British subject is interesting.
  #1224  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:06 PM
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ĎTrusty and well belovedí wast pulled out of thin air. Itís used when the Queen deals with the most preeminent people of her realm.

Dukes are always referred to as Ďour trusty and well beloved cousiní.

Itís inclusion in William and Catherineís consent wasnít an accident.
  #1225  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:12 PM
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Not sure why there's so much confusion that these are two different documents. Privy Council consent issued roughly two months before wedding date and consent charter issued 7-10 days before. I realize the wording is similar but as Gawin said we're comparing apples and oranges.

See Will & Kate's charter on left and both couples Privy Council consents on the right.
https://twitter.com/gertsroyals/stat...157692929?s=21

Examples of other Privy Council declarations of consent.
https://twitter.com/gertsroyals/stat...134434822?s=21
  #1226  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
ĎTrusty and well belovedí wast pulled out of thin air. Itís used when the Queen deals with the most preeminent people of her realm.

Dukes are always referred to as Ďour trusty and well beloved cousiní.

Itís inclusion in William and Catherineís consent wasnít an accident.
It wasn't included in William and Catherine's consent. It was included in their more elaborate and decorative PERSONAL COPY of the consent.
  #1227  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:18 PM
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Thereís only ONE consent. For William it was issued 9 Feb and for Harry today.

The fancy version is a copy of the original. Itís a government document bearing the great seal of the realm. It just canít be fiddled with adding words

Iím not suggesting itís a slight just pointing out that there isnít two different consents issued.
  #1228  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
It's interesting some are trying to make an issue out of few words and trying to use that as an indication of the Queen's feelings towards Meghan. The Queen has made her feelings regarding Meghan plenty clear by including in events that has not included fiances or fiancees in the past both as family and in official events.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soula View Post
I think the omission of those few words speaks volumes
Wow, what a lot of fuss over a few words. I believe that regardless of what the Press Office released, Megan's standing with HM speaks for itself.

Megan, as Harry's fiancee, has been invited to Sandringham to spend Christmas with HM and the rest of the Royal Family. That is a great honour that not so long ago would have been considered impossible. She was also invited to accompany Harry to the Interdenominational Commonwealth Service where the attendance was listed in the Court Circular.

However, the family arrived in strict order of precedence and sat in order of precedence. Meghan however, arrived with and sat beside Harry and not at the end of the row beside the Duchess of Gloucester where I would assume a mere Ms Markle would be seated in precedence.

I believe HM has made herself more than clear on Megan's standing with her and the BRF. Action always speak louder than words,
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  #1229  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:23 PM
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Mike Tindal before marriage was invited to William and Catherineís wedding sat next to Zara and even made the CC if Iím not mistaken.

Before him Sophie attended royal events. Meghan certainly isnít the first to attend events.
  #1230  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Thereís only ONE consent. For William it was issued 9 Feb and for Harry today.

The fancy version is a copy of the original. Itís a government document bearing the great seal of the realm. It just canít be fiddled with adding words

Iím not suggesting itís a slight just pointing out that there isnít two different consents issued.
With the acceptance of the wording I've highlighted, wouldn't it then stand to reason that HM's personal feelings would have been kept out of the legal Instrument of Consent as it was issued by HM, The Queen and her Privy Council?

Logical thinking isn't my strong suit but I try.
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  #1231  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
With the acceptance of the wording I've highlighted, wouldn't it then stand to reason that HM's personal feelings would have been kept out of the legal Instrument of Consent as it was issued by HM, The Queen and her Privy Council?

Logical thinking isn't my strong suit but I try.
I canít read minds. One thing we know is that for whatever reasons trusty and well beloved was used with Catherine and not with Meghan.
  #1232  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Thereís only ONE consent. For William it was issued 9 Feb and for Harry today.

The fancy version is a copy of the original. Itís a government document bearing the great seal of the realm. It just canít be fiddled with adding words

Iím not suggesting itís a slight just pointing out that there isnít two different consents issued.
Please go back to message #1191 and read William's consent, issued on February 9, 2011.

It matches Henry's, issued yesterday. Neither one uses words "well-beloved and trusty."

Then look at William's PERSONAL copy, issued on April 21, 2011, days before his wedding. The words "trusty and well-beloved" have been ADDED.

So yes, it can be fiddled with, and yes, we are still comparing apples to oranges.
  #1233  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:35 PM
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Read Williamís personal copy. Itís dated 9 February. Thereís only one consent.

Whatís different is today we got the full text of Harryís document. With William only the short version was released until the personal copy.
  #1234  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:36 PM
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I guess this means the wedding will be cancelled any day now.
  #1235  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:41 PM
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Rudolph you're clearly willing to fall on your sword on this one. If you truly think the Queen would go out of her way to slight her new daughter in law in what is ostensibly a templated document, I'd say that's an even poorer reflection on your feelings about the Queen than your feelings about Meghan. Still, if another version of the H&M consent isn't issued in May, I will tip my cap to you.

Mike Tindall wasn't referenced as "trusted and well-beloved" in his Privy Council consent either, but who cares about Mike when you can create a Kate vs. Meghan rivalry.
  #1236  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Suitor View Post
Rudolph you're clearly willing to fall on your sword on this one. If you truly think the Queen would go out of her way to slight her new daughter in law in what is ostensibly a templated document, I'd say that's an even poorer reflection on your feelings about the Queen than your feelings about Meghan. Still, if another version of the H&M consent isn't issued in May, I will tip my cap to you.

Mike Tindall wasn't referenced as "trusted and well-beloved" in his Privy Council consent either, but who cares about Mike when you can create a Kate vs. Meghan rivalry.
But I clearly stated itís not a slight. I wasnít the first on this thread to bring it up. I joined already being debated.

What canít be debated is trusty and well beloved was used in one but not the other. As to why, that can be debated.
  #1237  
Old 03-15-2018, 06:13 PM
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This is getting to be like the endless debate about Kate's Ivory Family Order each year.

Why not wait until May 12 approx, when the parchment Charter for Harry and Meghan will undoubtedly be issued. If it doesn't state 'trusty and beloved' for Meghan on that then you, Rudolph, will have a point. If it does then you won't.
  #1238  
Old 03-15-2018, 06:29 PM
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Someone on tumblr posted Autumn Philips consent and she got Ďtrusty and well belovedí.

The plot thickens.
  #1239  
Old 03-15-2018, 06:50 PM
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Was Autumn a British subject at that point? An alternative explanation is a change of mind. It hasn't been used for Mike, so it won't be used any longer for any future consents (the next most likely being the Cambridge prince(sse)s...).
  #1240  
Old 03-15-2018, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I fail to see why "trusty and well-beloved" would have anything to do with nationality or citizenship. Can anyone confirm that is the case ?
As I explained in my previous post; the issue is with the 'our', not with the 'trusty and beloved'. On what grounds would the queen claim that an American is 'our' (as a grandmother probably but not as the head of a state that Meghan does not belong to).

I am in no way claiming that this is THE reason, just exploring possibilities...
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